I think, looking at the regulations, we're in the clear. From the The Smoke-free (Exemptions and Vehicles) Regulations 2007:
11. --(1) Subject to the following paragraphs of this regulation, an enclosed vehicle and any enclosed part of a vehicle is smoke-free if it is used?
(a) by members of the public or a section of the public (whether or not for reward or hire); or
(b) in the course of paid or voluntary work by more than one person (even if those persons use the vehicle at different times, or only intermittently).
(a) doesn't apply. And (b) is unclear. It might be used by her commute, or for my commute. But is that "in the course of paid work"?
Item 5 clarifies:
(5) A vehicle is not used in the course of paid or voluntary work for the purposes of paragraph (1)(b) where it is used primarily for the private purposes of a person who?
(a) owns it; or
(b) has a right to use it which is not restricted to a particular journey.
I think we're clear under 5(b) - most "perk" company cars could come under that description.
www.smokefreeengland.co.uk seems to concur:
Will the regulations include all company vehicles?
The new law will not apply to vehicles that are used primarily for private rather than work purposes.
Where a vehicle is used for work by more than one person, regardless of whether they are in the vehicle at the same time, it will be required to be smokefree at all times. This protects all who use the vehicle from harmful secondhand smoke, regardless of when they use the vehicle.
Smoking will be permitted in vehicles that are for the sole use of the driver and are not used as a workplace by anyone else, either as a driver or passenger.
|
This protects all who use the vehicle from harmful secondhandsmoke, regardless of when they use the vehicle.
The expression 'harmful secondhand smoke' raises my blood pressure far more violently than a life spent consuming all sorts of harmful substances including tobacco, alcohol, sugar, eggs and red meat.
What a lot of screaming carp-hounds the moral high ground is crowded with today. I hope they all fall over the edge.
Children are already fat, sickly and prone to allergies because they are protected from dirt, animals, rough contact sports and so on. Now they are being turned into neurasthenic wimps who cough blood at the sight of a stogie.
But how many of them will be able to write like Proust? (Not too many I hope).
|
I know how you feel, Lud. But try substituting the words "secondhand asbestos dust" - would you want any in your car?
it is said to be of similar danger.
|
Cliff,
Judging by the state (and smell) of my car's interior, there's a lot worse than asbestos dust in my car. It goes back soon, and frankly I think it needs exorcising rather than cleaning out.
Lud is right, BTW. We're breeding a generation of namby-pamby ambulance-chasing counter-suing crybabies who can't let go of the apron strings. We all KNOW smoking is bad, jeez I am not saying "I think children should smoke" but FHS stop worriting about everything!! You cannot and should not legislate against EVERYTHING.
By the way, you shouldn't take too much notice of what I write. I am off my head on a heady mix of amphetamines, LSD and Vimto. : )
|
|
|
Stick to the topic - we're talking about signs :)
It's the absurdity that places and vehicles where no-one ever would have smoked are now having to put great big signs up on every entrance.
Every single shop, every single entrance to every office, every church door, every tractor, will all be plastered with red-and-white no smoking signs. Banning smoking in public buildings is one thing, but visually polluting the entire public space is another...
|
|
|
I know how you feel, Lud. But try substituting the words "secondhand asbestos dust" - would you want any in your car? it is said to be of similar danger.
A lot of things are 'said to be' this or that, CP.
|
I can remember all the fuss about compulsory:
child seats
seat belts
motorcycle helmets
and yet we all got over it, got on with our lives etc., and the same will be true of the smoking ban.
|
I agree, but then we didn't have to stick signs up everywhere for those. I object more to the signs than I ever did to anyone smoking...
|
|
|
|
|
When the smoking ban was introduced in Ireland, a van, truck, bus, taxi or company car was considered to fall under the definition of a "workplace", so smoking inside them is banned. As the Scottish and English bans are modelled on that, I expect the same rationale applies.
Oddly enough, smoking in your own car which you use for business purposes is allowed - even if you sometimes carry passengers with you in the course of your work AFAIK - company car opt-out drivers note!
|
I'm a non-smoker, and actively encourage smokers because of all the tax they're saving me.
As for secondhand smoke, what would you rather spend the night with in an enclosed space?
1. A chain smoker
2. One of those noisy, smelly, polluting, anti social, internal combustion engined thingys, I think they're called cars.
|
|
|
|
|
< snip >
I have to put up with smokers not only polluting the air in public spaces, but dumping their butts out of car windows & wherever they smoke. We have a smoking area at work, they've put loads of bins out, which get regularly emptied but no smokers have to dump the detrius on the ground. I've lost two close people due to smoking. If a ban everywhere possible had been in place to disuade these people then maybe they'd be alive & with me today!
|
|
|
|
The Regulations will see the end of smoking carriages on trains! ! !
Best bit of the regulations is that you CAN smoke in a specialist tobacconists but only if 1) it is enclosed and 2) does not ventilate into a smoke free area and 3) you are sampling pipe tobacco or cigars.
i.e. you cannot smoke your own tobacco or cigars or any cigarettes !
The world's gone mad - I do not support the ban and I have never smoked.
|
The Regulations will see the end of smoking carriages on trains! ! !
Where do they still have those, then? They got rid of them all round here getting on for 15 years ago (I remember, 'cos I nicked one of the ashtrays as a souvenir...)
|
|
GNER had them until only a couple of years ago.
|
andymc -
well said. the sooner they ban this filthy habit completely, the better.
|
Whan and if they do ban it, you'll hear less complaints from me. However, at the moment IT IS NOT ILLEGAL so however much you disapprove of it, your disapproval doesn't make it illegal, immoral, unethical or anything else.
I take it by your comments you're not a libertarian. Let me ask you this, and please bear in mind my comments in earlier posts about my agreement with separate areas: if smoking was only conducted in smoking rooms in, say, pubs that voted to have them, how on god's earth would that affect you?
You've chosen not to smoke. Well done you. I am offering you a scenario where I and the other losers as you seem to see us can smoke without impinging on you. Discuss.
Drinking is bad for you. Eating too much red meat is bad for you. Being sanctimonious may well take a few minutes off your life, I don't know....
Er, motoring link. As a smoker, I don't smoke whilst driving, because I feel it's dangerous. See? Smokers are not always selfish.
|
|
I think this is mad to call a car a place of work. Places or work are supposed to have toilets & wash basins, and fire extinquishers & first-aid kits.
We had the fire extinguisher and first-aid kits taken out of our cars in case we hurt ourselves fighting fires, or caused injury to someone by incorrectly first-aiding them. We never had toilets & wash-basins!
|
I work for an NHS Primary Care Trust and they have banned smoking within all buildings (makes sense) and on all areas of the hospital grounds (what's that all about?) No smoking in the open air? I couldn't be bothered to go out ,or face the aggro, from telling some having a gasp in the car park that he had better put it out as it isn't allowed.
|
I'll top this.....
My employers have not only introduced the 'No Smoking' sign for all company vans trucks and company cars (which is the Law), but also want all us Private Car owners who receive a car allowance (instead of a car) to display signs as well !
Their communication even said it was illegal not to display the signs (the legislation actually excludes private cars - I've checked). The law also states that as it is private property this type of action isn't enforceable.
Looks like we've got a battle as many of the 'private' car users are up in arms about it. I only have one sticker on my car windows, and that's the tax disc.
The other crazy rule...... everyone now has to reverse park - whilst there are safety benefits, the car park is tight and not designed for safe reverse parking. Some spaces it's positively dangerous to reverse into because of the time it takes to park or pull out of !
Crazy crazy world !
|
I've inspected our original letter now (from LeasePlan), and they seem to agree with my view of the legislation - it only applies to vehicles if used predominantly for business purposes (which doesn't include commuting), or if it may be used to transport colleagues. They're not insisting that it applies to all leased company cars.
Presumably fossyant's employers are doing the typical thing of erring "on the safe side", and applying it to all vehicles, even though not required by the law.
|
|
|
|
|
|
What a lot of screaming carp-hounds the moral high ground is crowded with today. I hope they all fall over the edge.
Children are already fat, sickly and prone to allergies because they are protected from dirt, animals, rough contact sports and so on. Now they are being turned into neurasthenic wimps who cough blood at the sight of a stogie.
Agree with you 100%, Lud!
As an inveterate pipe-smoker I can assure you that there is nothing second-hand about my pipe smoke!
It should also noted that giving up smoking is, in all cases, fatal. (think about it)
--
e Prôf - Another Recycled Teenager
|
|
|
|
|
|
