Bit of a generalised question I know, however I dont think I have had a positive experience with any franchiesed car dealership.
Current issue is with my girlfriends MINI, she has only had it 3 months and there are some problems that need sorting from when we bought it.
The brakes are grinding so obviously need new pads or disks however they cant hear it (they must seriously be deaf because its blatent and happens every time you apply them - worse when not used for a few hours). So we have the car back and the problem still there. I think they are pulling a fast one on this as when we picked up the car they said that front and back disks and pads had been replaced. Now they are saying only the rears were done and the front are fine.
Secondly there is a hurricane draft coming in the car on the passenger side and its very noisy at 65-70. They couldnt hear that either and evidently cant feel it. Again its not slight and makes motorway travelling very tiresome (and cold!).
I had hoped buying a premium brand may have come with a competent dealer but it appears not - strangely they couldnt do enough for us up to the point of handing the cheque over in October and now they dont want to know.
The car will be going back on Tuesday and they will have to spend more time looking at it, why cant they do it right the first time? I am just pleased that its got a years warranty and another 5 years TLC because I wouldnt want to pay them for their service!!
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annoyed to read this bbroomlea{P} its hardly a big job to check discs and pads and keep you happy is it?
as regards the wind noise have a careful look at the doorframe and make sure that a forced entry hasnt been made here and its been badly repaired,if this is ok then a new windseal and an adjustement of the catch should cure the noise (im assuming that the door card hasnt been off and the plastic membrane discarded as this can cause terrible wind noise in some cars)
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The point I was trying to make regarding the brakes oldman is that the dealership said they had been replaced before we picked up the car at the end of October, they are now saying they werent and it does appear that they need doing - likely at a cost to us this time.
In terms of the wind noise, this has done it since we got the car and we mentioned this a few days after picking it up. Their response was to wait until the serivce and they would do it at the same time as there was only a couple of thousand miles to go. We paid over the odds for the car from a dealer so we would get aftercare and we are not getting it. Just a fob off every time you mention a problem that there is nothing wrong.
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Service sounds pretty poor here - even with a warranty repair you should demand a fully itemised copy of the repair bill to maintain your FSH.
In their defence they may not notice defects that you do because they are "normal" for the model and therefore dont stand out to them.
Not sure I would consider Mini a premium brand either come to that.
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I would suggest that if you are having issues with the demonstration of these faults, why dont you accompany the technician on the test drive or better still, you drive them.
You naively leaving yourself open to abuse by letting the dealer have control.
If they think you are a soft touch, they will walk all over you and by the sounds of it, they have their bootprints all over you.
I remember a guy who had a slight wind noise with a Rover 75 - it came back week after week because it was very hard to find where it was coming from - they stripped out the whole car and ran it round with technicians in the boot and footwells to listen for it - this is what you call proper service.
In the end, it was a doorseal, but they never gave up when they couldnt find it beforehand.
I would also suggest trying another dealer - my local Suzuki dealer is utter rubbish whereas a dealer who is only 10 more mins away is fantastic.
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>>strangely they couldnt do enough for us up to the point of handing the cheque over in October and now they >>dont want to know.
Isn't that often the case with car dealerships (both main dealer and larger independants) these days? As soon as they have your money they couldn't give a toss. I'm not taring them all with the same brush, but it seems to be an increasingly common problem with car dealers.
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Franchised dealers are like all businesses, they are there to make money they are not in the business to make friends or because they are interested in motor vehicles they simply want to make money and do as little to earn this money as possible. It is unfortunate but sometimes this does mean that the customer is brushed aside in the name of corner cutting. As the vehicle is under warranty I would try another dealer as the cover will be valid in all UK dealerships. Rather than complaining to a disinterested, incompetent and lazy dealer it may be better for you to try another local establishment.
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Carl
fair point but "local" is rarely local any longer. It often means the next town, which can be a pain in the bum. My wife once bought a car, in part, because the dealer was local. The following month they lost the franchise and servicing was a trip into a different town which is a total pain to get into (who said "bus lane?).
JH
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Franchised dealers are like all businesses, they are there to make money they are not in the business to make friends ........
This year I received a Christmas card (with the signatures of all their directors and employees) from the smallish Ford dealer I use.
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L\'escargot.
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>> Franchised dealers are like all businesses, they are there to make >> money they are not in the business to make friends ........ This year I received a Christmas card (with the signatures of all their directors and employees) from the smallish Ford dealer I use. -- L\'escargot.
You obviously didn't haggle enough. Your aim should be to get death threats from the staff. :)
My mother lived in Brixham and bought a car from the local Rover dealer. When she lost the use of her legs, I persuaded her to sell it, and he gave her £3750 and we found out that he sold it on for £4250. He had to cover the cost of repairs/servicing and an MOT as the car had sat unused in a garage for several years, and he had to provide a warranty for the new buyer. My mother was an elderly disabled woman and he could so easily have ripped her off, but I think that he was very honest.
My experience of Nissan and Ford dealers has been generally good. They have to earn a living after all. Maybe the problem here is that the dealer is BMW?
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I would also suggest trying another dealer - my local Suzuki dealer is utter rubbish whereas a dealer who is only 10 more mins away is fantastic.
Who is the good Suzuki dealer you mention?
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>> Not sure I would consider Mini a premium brand either come to that.
A premium brand? A resounding NO to that!
Premium prices? A resounding, YES to that
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Documentation?
Visit one of the fast fit places and ask for a check over. Or try another dealer as mentioned by others.
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No
Thought my local Citroen dealer was OK until he wanted to change the brake fluid in my Xantia.
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No Thought my local Citroen dealer was OK until he wanted to change the brake fluid in my Xantia.
What's wrong with that? The Xantia brakes are not run of the hydropneumatics, like say the BX, CX, DS, etc.
A few years ago I bought a new Picasso HDI. The clutch started slipping after a few months but the supplying Citroen dealer insisted they couldn't detect anything. So I went to the next Ciroen dealer who changed it, no question. I have since bought another car from this second dealer who continues to provide excellent service whilst the first dealer went bust!
I suggest the OP tries another MINI dealer.
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Boxterboy,
I'm not letting you loose on my Xantia, then!
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boxsterboy
I think you may be confusing Xsara and Xantia
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Phil
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Xsara is conventional Peugeot 306. Xantia has LHM suspension, but I could have sworn the brakes were off a seperate conventional hydraulic system, or am I getting confused with the PAS? I do know my BX had suspension, steering and brakes all off the same LHM system - which did cause problems at times.
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Xantia is "all in one", as the BX. The C5 is split with the brakes off a "normal" master cylinder type system.
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Thanks for clarifying that for me mjm
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"Franchised dealers are like all businesses, they are there to make money they are not in the business to make friends or because they are interested in motor vehicles they simply want to make money and do as little to earn this money as possible."
Yes - true in all too many cases, and in fairness not just car dealers. This is short-term money-making and if they don't 'make friends' in the long run they will start to fail. A dealer, or any other business, who spends a little more money making an effort to satisfy its customers will find that they come back.
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I dont think I have had a positive experience with any franchiesed car dealership.
Whether you go to a franchised dealer or a back-street garage, the level of service you will receive will depend almost entirely on the calibre of the person actually doing the work and the facilities available to them. This applies in all walks of life.
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L\'escargot.
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Whether you go to a franchised dealer or a back-street garage, the level of service you will receive will depend almost entirely on the calibre of the person actually doing the work and the facilities available to them. This applies in all walks of life. -- L\'escargot.
There is some truth to that, of course. However a lot of franchised dealers these days are part of a larger group with management that is remote from the 'coal face'. Staff often end up having to do things that they know are wrong, unhelpful or absurd because 'its company policy'. In a smaller independent you can speak to the guy doing the job and there is more lattitude for sensible decision making by the staff.
Communication in main dealers is often very poor - what with 'receptionists' service advisors' 'technicians' etc etc, putting the customer a good distance from the guy who is actually doing the job.
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Just to update on this.
Took the car in this morning for them to check again. They tested the brakes in the car park and could hear them. Wasnt prepared for what he said next - ' they all do that when they are cold, there is nothing wrong with them'.
I didnt buy this, I have never had a car or driven a car with roadworthy brakes that sound like they are scoring. Also, if they all do it, why was it ok for 1000 miles?
Anyway, they took it into the workshop and the discs have a rusty groove around the top and ideally need replacing. Service is going to check with sales to see if they will contribute to the cost!!
I do hope that service is going to make the other contribution because I am digging my heals in on this one.
I would take it to the next dealer, however its 30 miles away and both myself and girlfriend work long hours in the opposite direction so that is really a no go..
Finally getting somewhere anyway!!
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Shouldn't make a noise, probably needs discs and pads to start with.
I take it this is a used Mini?
Normally what happens is that Sales would buy the car in and pay a price based on their appraisal, factoring-in the cost of prep-work. Service then do the prep (charging 'internal labour rate') and sales add this to their cost and then put the car up for sale at cost+desired profit). Obviously if the car is wrongly appraised then Sales could end up with a big bill and make a loss on the car. Frequently there is ill-feeling between sales and service because sales will suspect that service are 'over prepping' the car to make money out of them.
If this work is to be done then Sales will have to pay - it will come out of the sales profit, its nothing to do with the Service dept really, I'm sure the Service Manager will be happy to do the work so long as someone pays him!
You could get caught between service and sales managers, so might have to escalate it to someone more senior. On the other hand they might come back and say 'wear and tear'.
I must say, although many folks rave about the Mini I am not that keen on them. Personally I don't think the build quality anywhere near justifies the price of the car and I find them tiring on a long journey. But each to his own.
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>>I must say, although many folks rave about the Mini I am not that keen on them. Personally I don't think the build quality anywhere near justifies the price of the car and I find them tiring on a long journey. But each to his own.
I completely agree with you Aprilla regarding the build quality. The brakes are a list in the long line of problems we are having/had. The car was 2 1/2 years old when we bought it in October and was bought under MINI cherished scheme.
In 3000 miles there have been more problems needed sorting than the car it replaced needed in over 5 years and 70,000 miles.
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My local Ford dealership was pretty useless when I rang them yesterday about SWMBO's Focus rear wheel bearings. They knew nothing about the TSB I found on here relating to the issue with Mk1 Focus. Booked it into an independant who were happy to make enquiries, and use email so I could send the the info I pulled off here.
The Ford dlrship makes much of its independence....
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Bit of a generalised question I know, however I dont think I have had a positive experience with any franchiesed car dealership.
One of the benefits of going to a franchised dealer is that they have easy access to the manufacturer's technical advice department.
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L\'escargot.
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One of the benefits of going to a franchised dealer is that they have easy access to the manufacturer's technical advice department.
They also know exactly what parts will fit your car, purely by registration number - my local motor factors couldn't tell me which brake disc out of 3 would fit my car. My local Nissan dealer is good for parts but I've heard very bad tales of their servicing and sales depts.
Generally speaking, I use the main dealer as a motor factor, but would never get any work done there.
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>>have easy access to the manufacturer's technical advice department.
And in my experience, these seat warmers are about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.
Where the dealership does have a big advantage is in their receipt of manufacturer's bulletins, service data, software updates, and specialist training. Having said that, for most run of the mill work, there's no real gain in using a dealer over a good independant - especially once you are beyond the warranty. In the vast majority of cases, it makes more difference if the mechanic who works on your car is bright, awake, and careful than whether he is working in an independant's or a dealer's workshop.
Number_Cruncher
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Most main dealers are very stingy with training these days. Normally there is one long-serving bloke who has done all the courses and can use all the kit. Most of the rest will have received very little training. They normally will not train anyone who has not been working for them for 6 months and proved to be good.
I know some of the lads at the local Ford dealer (very old-established and large dealer) - they constantly moan about the lack of training. A lot of them cannot use the diagnostics and the device they use to recode injectors (MT2500 is it??). Anyway, the turnover of staff is very high - this is a problem for the motor trade, with technicians continually 'churning' around the dealers.
Of course the bright ones leave and become independents!
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Of course the bright ones leave and become independents!
Or listen to their Mums & get a proper job!!
VB
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For most workshops, thats about right - over 90% of dealer workshop work is servicing during warranty, and you don't need too much training for that.
But - it all goes wrong when the one who knows his onions decides that the grass is greener elsewhere! Cutting back on training for mechanics is fairly short sighted, it isn't as though the detailled knowledge is any use in another dealer of another make, or without the manufacturer specific computer interface, or special tools.
I have little sympathy with the problems of the motor trade in attracting good mechanics. When the dealers can't see any further than the end of their noses, who can blame the mechanics for jumping ship at the first sniff of a better pay offer?
The long-serving mechanic at the Vauxhall garage I used to work in used to be my apprentice there - it was obvious that he was going to be good at his job almost from day one. I can't work out why he is still there though! Chatting with him over a beer recently gave pretty much the same high turnover, low skill/performance picture which you hint at Aprilia.
Number_Cruncher
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