Noticed on the 'Car by Car' breakdown that the Primera was axed in October - didn't realise this. Do Nissan have a replacement lined up?
I reckon the current ones are bargains secondhand but visually look awful compared to the Mondeo or Vectra - all that flat metal, no side strips on doors and high waistline. Rear end not too pretty with poor visibility. Possibly the estate a more balanced car visually. Dash also was a bit OTT but brave by Nissan. Never driven one but wonder if it takes some adjustment. Shame as the original one introduced around 1993 was a cracker, and improved by each replacement until the current one - the 2.0 GT I particularly remember was a good buy for it's strong engine and handling.
|
Apparently Nissan plans to leave D sector for considerable amount of time. Massive depreciation, huge competition and unless you capture long term fleet contracts there is not a lot of money in it. However, there are rumours of Versa Sedan (Almera Saloon sized car) to go on sale in UK next year. Nissan is also rumoured to introduce Infinity brand (the Lexus equivalent for Nissan) in Europe in 2007.
--------------------
[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
|
I think it's Infiniti not Infinity.
Mazda had a play with multiple brands a few years ago.
Mazda, Eunos, Autozam, Xedos, Efini. Can this be beaten by any other maker? Not counting BMC, of course.
|
|
|
It's a competitive market, Nissan do well in niches now.
It's a like it or loath it design - I've had a top spec one for 4 years now. It's been very reliable (it's a petrol) and never off the road. Only had a couple of minor warranty visits, but I'm terribly fussy. The dealers have been generally OK but I have serviced this car myself - very straight forward despite all the electronics. The dash you get used to quickly and the levels of equipment put most other vehicles costing significantly more to shame.
I'd recommend one as a 'nearly new' buy if you want something 'different' but I'd stay clear of the dCi's - they do suffer the usual common rail diesel problems.
|
|
The replacement is called a Quash-qui. Not really a replacement but think it will be popular.
|
>>Shame as the original one introduced around 1993 was a cracker>>
You undersell the Primera. It was launched in July 1990, replacing the Bluebird, which had been built at Sunderland in kit form with parts shipped from Japan since 1985.
I went on the launch of the then new Primera and, although it was a fairly ordinary looking car, it exhibited excellent ride and handling; we were also highly impressed with the skills of the Sunderland work force.
In fact, when Ford brought the Mondeo out in 1993, one of the cars that was evaluated for its handling prior to the Ford's newcomer's introduction was the Primera, a point Ford never attempted to hide.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
I went on the launch of the then new Primera and, although it was a fairly ordinary looking car, it exhibited excellent ride and handling; we were also highly impressed with the skills of the Sunderland work force.
This is something I've never quite been able to understand.
People call Japanese cars bland. Which is fair enough I guess, from a handling perspective -- looks really don't matter to anyone but the posers, but yes handling is an essential positive characteristic really. Yet Nissan produced some of the best handling cars of the early-mid 90s (Primera, MK1 Almera) and no-one blinked. It took quite a while for some of the stodgy competition (Cavalier, Astra, Escort especially etc etc) to catch up. Did no-one care about handling before 2000 or something?
Then they get taken over by Renault, a company famed for good handling, and all of a sudden their cars turn all lumpy and soft.
What happened there then?
|
>>People call Japanese cars bland.>>
A fair point with a lot of Japanese models.
But you could hardly call the outgoing Primera bland, yet it still never caught the fleet buyers or public's imagination.
I recommended a Primera on several occasions to friends and family in the early/mid 1990s looking for a good secondhand buy.
Not only did they get them at a good price but they were absolutely delighted with the reliability and reasonable operating costs.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
|
>>People call Japanese cars bland.>> A fair point with a lot of Japanese models. But you could hardly call the outgoing Primera bland, yet it still never caught the fleet buyers or public's imagination.
Well, I guess this goes back to the question of what exactly bland is in this context......
Some think that bland means plain to look at, others refer to unexciting handling (often referring to something that is very competent, but in some way "characterless" (I hate that word)) as bland.
Totally inconsistent, woolly language, but folks persist.
As soon as people start on the bland thing (meaning looks) I switch off -- they're usually the shallow types who *must* pay £300 for a pair of specs because they have some brand name in tiny letters on the rim. If it's driving dynamics, then as I say fair enough, but none of the Primeras -- except the latest Renault(!!) one -- have been bland in this way. Crazy.
|
Kingpin,
I am a bit of a Nissan fan.
My Dad had one of the first Primera's. A 1990 H 2.0GS and it was easily the best car he had (prior to that he'd had two Bluebird estates which were both good and a 1988 Bluebird hatch 1.8GS, which was slow but still reliable). He also had a 100NX later but that didn't really do it for me.
Recently, I had a 2.2DCi Primera estate for a while. It was OK but not exceptional. Mondeo much better imho.
I think Nissan in terms of "normal" (i.e. non-niche cars) peaked with their 90's Primera and have done the honorable thing and culled the current Primera.
My Mum now has a Nissan Note (default bright blue with dark glass model like the one in all the road tests) and that seems pretty good.
Hopefully Nissan are on the up again with Note, 350z , Murano but would like to see them come up with a winner of a "normal" car once again.
|
|
The new Primera is the 2007 Laguna
|
|
Saw loads of Nissan Notes this weekend gone in Leeds. Never seen one here in Germany. Are they any good? Looked like a pumped-up Fiat Panda to my untrained eye.
|
Living near the factory I've seen a couple of the Qashqai (whatever it's called) pre-production models on test. A LHD one was parked up in Newcastle the other night so I took the chance to have a qujick look and I have to say I think that they could be onto a winner. Quite a pretty looking car, quite compact, and yet it looks like an SUV.
Look forward to seeing it launched properly.
As for the Primera, may it rest in pieces, I wasn't ever a big fan really.
Blue
|
A friend had an early (92) Primera 2.0e GT which he bought at auction at 3 yrs old with about 95k on the clock (ex Fleetlease). It was a fabulous car. Quick, smooth, brilliant handling and so bland to look at he never had it nicked or broken into. Most people we knew with anything remotely performance oriented of that age lost it to joyriders at least once, but the Primera was never touched. Bit of a Q-car.
I mean would you guess this packed 150 bhp?
images.bilnorge.no/129/220/238331_1_m.jpg
It was rear ended by a Transit at a set of lights and written off. Had 150k on it, still went like stink and still cleaned up like new.
I personally don't like the current one, but as others have said, it's a matter of personal preference.
Cheers
DP
|
Takes me back ....
My first car was an eGT. Fabulous engine and handling - I always ran out of bottle long before it ran out of grip.
|
|
|
|
Nissan's best years are behind them, in the 90's they had some great cars and very reliable. I bought one and it was great but wouldn't touch any of the current lines. Seems that many agree with me, sales down almost 22% this year and 15% in Europe
|
Yes DP - that red one in the photograph is what I would call one of the best examples, 150bhp tough 2.0 engine and unassuming looks, ideal for quick discrete car. Same engine as the Sunny GTI if I'm correct. I bet you can still pick up a few below £1k with some life left in them.
Current model is way to bulky and slow (safety regs).
|
It looks like every Nissan designed in Japan and sold over here is remembered for it's reliability and road abilities, while almost anything designed in Europe turned out to be a bit of a miss, at least in global scale.
--------------------
[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
|
The last Primera is Nissan apart from some electrical components - They are the bits can let it down, but it's the same on many cars now !
Slow.... I wouldn't call any of them that, not as fast as the old ones, but my 1.8 can keep up with any 2.0 petrol easily.
Engines are 100% Nissan, especially the petrols and are developed from the earlier P10 and P11 (P11-144) models - all very reliable - my car is 5 years old and hasen't ever missed a beat - then again neither has out Yaris in 7.5 years. - Both cars have been far too good to think about changing !
All to our own though - the mondeo is a fine car but far too plasticy for me - don't like the "square" interior door panels (same with vectra).
|
As posted by me on the NPOC Forums frequently (Hi Fossyant - hows it going?) My current Primera is my 8th and definitely my last Nissan. It is currently in the workshop awaiting a new engine after trying to pay its own tribute to Buncefield Depot. It has been plagued with faults and recalls, as well as various niggles squeaks and rattles (although maybe my increasing dis-satisfaction with the car is magnifying these). Never again.
Pity - I personally like the design (funny one - on a dull day looks carp, but on a bright sunny day the various creases, and diffferent panel angles look brilliant) The interior is a masterpiece of design, works brilliantly, its roomy, its comfortable, its quick. So far so good . . . .
It handles like a drunk camel on roller skates, its general build quality its pants (look carefully at the bits that you can't see - the bits you can are OK) the doors are thin and a bit tinny. I could go on but the whole car reeks of dramatic cost cutting.
Renault have a lot to answer for in this whole thing, and in so far as I am concerned have ruined what was a great product. I will not be buying another for this reason and also I have no desire for an MPV or 4 x 4.
|
P12 Primera was essentially a Japanese design (designed at Atsugi, which is not far from Yokohama). The overwhelming majority of the design work was done before the Renault tie-up. The vehcile was designed for Japan and the front and rear wings, plus interior, somewhat modified for the European market - along with suspension mods etc. Can be had with V6 engine in Japan or 2.0; don't think they do the 1.8 Q-series.
The European market is not that significant for Nissan, the majortiy of their sales are in Asia, US and Australasia where they sell a good mix of vehciles including a large range of saloon cars that have never been heard of in Europe. I think Nissan have decided that there is no money to be made in the 'fleet' C/D segment in Europe and so are concentrating on niche models that have more profit. Apparently so far in 2006 sales are down, but dealer profits are up by 10% - they are actually making decent money on the cars they are selling and the Nissan dealer margin is about 60% higher than mainstream competitors.
The new Qashqai was mostly designed in Japan, again at Atsugi - which is being expanded. Localisation of the design was done at the Nissan design office in London (its at the old BR 'Rotunda' builidng since 2003). It looks a bit of a copy of the Mitsi Pajero Evolution though - do an image search and you'll see what I mean.
I was at Atsugi in Oct 2005 and they said Infinti brand would be coming to Europe (didn't say UK though) and maybe they'll bring in some Europeanised versions of Fuga, Cima, A35 etc etc to challenge Lexus.
|
Didn't realise the wings were different on Euro models. Look all but identical in pics TBH. I did notice the doorhandles were different on the Jap market cars and the bumpers too. DO you have pics???? Curiosity get s the better of me. I have to admit I wouldn't mind a Jap spec P12 - particularly the W20V. They have to be better than the European ones surely.
On my own car I have counted at least half a dozen - visible - renault parts. Fog lights, door handles, rear view mirror, to name but a few . . . . . AS I say - the waste of a good product
As for the CashCow - lets not go there . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
|
I think the story about the snowdrift is a wind-up, HJ.
The Primera was based on the Nissan Fusion concept car which was at the 2000 Paris motor show. Nothing at all to do with Renault. The Fusion concept was from a late '90's design by Stephan Schwartz, a Swiss chap who is ex-Pinninfarina, IIRC. Schwartz is also the designer behind the Qashqai, which like I said looks suspiciously like the Pajero Evolution.
The Primera looks very very like the Fusion. The Japanese and European versions are very similar, apart from the small differences I mentioned earlier.
The Nissan offices in the Netherlands are admin, press etc., no design. Nissan used to have a European body design office in Munich and engineering design in Cranfield. In 2003 they were both moved to London (Rotunda building near Paddington station) and Schwartz is now a design manager there I believe. At the end of the day all these concepts get sent back to Atsugi where the management decide what they want to go ahead with.
|
Nissan engineering design is still in Cranfield AFAIK. Is it still called Nissan European Technical Centre?
Number_Cruncher
|
Nissan engineering design is still in Cranfield AFAIK. Is it still called Nissan European Technical Centre? Number_Cruncher
Yes, they still have staff at the Cranfield technical centre - which looks at tasks like adapting HVAC and cooling systems etc for European markets. I think they have other functions there too (like purchasing etc). All the design people went to London though.
|
|
|
Just sold my 99V Primera 2.0 Sport around 1 hour ago. As a trader I own lots of different cars, and this was without doubt one of these best all round 'everyday' cars I've ever owned. Massively underated. Only area which I felt could have been improved was low end torque. You had to rely on high revs just a little too much.
|
|
I agree, great cars. The only things that annoyed me on them were the big turning circle and knocking upper links - although that's cheap and quick to fix. Turning circle always catches me out though.....
|
|
|
|
|
Which model makes the best secondhand sence? How bad is the last model, especially in auto form? How much Renault is in it?
|
They are all pretty good, just avoid the diesels.
Depends upon budget and toys - the newer more expensive, the more bits you get !
Many don't like the last P12 model because of it's styling and the poor performance/reliability of the 2.2 dCi, but my petrol model has been excellent in 50k miles of my ownership (4 years)
|
Last Primera DCI has a known weakness in the trade where it snaps the battery negative cable low down near the gearbox, there's a lug that's folded round a bit of bare cable that attaches to the top of gearbox & it always seems to go there.
Local recovery driver I was speaking too had been called out to 4 DCi Primeras in under 6 weeks & many more over a period of a few months, all the same fault of a snapped battery negative cable.
New part from Nissan is over £50 & it doesn't look like its even worth £5 let only over £50.
You could make or have made your own much better replacement cable for less then £15
Strange thing was he never saw this fault on a petrol Primera.
|
Alas poor Primera. My previous car was an M reg eGT that I took upto 165k before letting it go for £150 (it had been in a few accidents and rust was starting at the ends of sills but according to DVLA it's still on the road somewhere) a couple of years ago. It's replacement is a P11-144 1.8 and more than happy with it, they do offer very good value for money. Extremely reliable and handling is excellent.
I have pondered about changing it, maybe I'll wait until I see a petrol P12 with some minor front damage in a salvage yard at the right price, maybe then....
|
|
A difficult sector of the market - see that the Vectra is to disappear and become an Insignia - surprised that the Vauxhall name isn't going at the same time
|
|
|
|
