On balance there are far more nicer people than the not so nice.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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Reminds me of the man who spent ages putting my tracking right at Just Tyres in Basingstoke - he thought it was going to be a simple job but it turned out not to be, and I could tell he just wanted to go home and watch the football! I felt a bit of a numpty going back with biscuits at the time, but I'm glad I did.
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thing is you paid for that, its different :D
I had tried fitting a bulb into the corolla, was a pain trying to do it, gave up and went to a toyota specialist, took him all of 2 minutes, asked how much it was, he said no problem, thanked him and left :D.
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Similar story... a few years ago went to the local shops and spotted a Citroen AX with a flat and two young women about to empty the boot. I asked if they were looking for the spare (they were) and told them it was underneath in a cage.
In the end I swapped it for them (really difficult to undo some bolds) and they were grateful. In fact whilst I wad doing it one of them went to the supermarket opposite and bought a bottle of wine. They tried to give me the wine and in the end I accepted it but that was not the reason I'd stopped. But they were thankful.
And why did I stay to swap the tyre for them... another time this could be my wife stuck with a flat and I'd hope someone like me would help her too! Had to phone home because of the delay ... think I'd popped for milk or similar.
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I think your attitude may be a little sexest rtj70 and I read your post hoping that you were single at the time, until you mentioned your wife.
I feel most men have an affinity of young women, I know I do. However I think that the percpetion of women being inept with cars is brought on by 1. Women knowing a man's always ready to help and so don't prepare, 2. Women and men having low expectations of womens compentancy with cars and 3. Mens willingness to help women. By taking each point in turn your can see points 1,2 and 3 are interconnected and shows perception that every man should stop for a woman in distress, through her lack of preperation.
Any woman is just as capable as a man in knowing how to change a tyre, or phoning the AA. The only disadvantage that women have is most, but not all, are physically less strong men men so prehapps making it harder to change a tyre etc.
I guess my exeption to your post is if I am stranded by the roadside I should not be passed by just because I am a man. Feminisim works both ways, men won't pander to women, but women won't be told they can't do things, indeed they will be expected to do things as well as men.
I must congratulate you in stopping for people in need however. Too many people (a vast majority) would just drive right past. It is always good when a stranger stops and helps you, and that is the spirit of this thread.
I can remember that I had a blown headlight (it was only on side lighting, when dipped) but my local independant change the bulb free of charge. Thank god for independants and people who come across as nice.
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Torque means nothing without RPM
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rtj70 - well done, and the same logic that I sue. Maybe its my wife who coudl do wiht the assistance.
mk124 - "you shouldn't stop and help someone just because they're a woman because that means you wouldn't help me and that isn't fair." What a very silly point of view.
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No FM2R
My logic is indeed the same as yours... i.e. my wife would need help changing a wheel, especially one done up with a torque wrench and only having the standard wheel brace.
I hope I was not being sexist. As it happens the wheel brace in the AX was useless and I had to use the one from my car. And it took quite some effort to get the nuts moving. In fact they had already started to try to loosen the bolts and were failing. And I nearly failed too - they were that tight. It was seeing them struggling that led me to help.
My attitude also extends to warning people of blown bulbs when I can. But all too often they actually know they are gone but are surprised when I let them know they could get points and a fine.
I'll repeat again, if my wife needed assistance with her car I hope someone would help. e.g. she once misjudged the low fuel on her new car and ran out of petrol. Luckily very near a petrol station and some people helped push it for her to the petrol station.
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rtj70, Bet you never worked for the Local Authority, regarding your " affinity of young women" :)
I used to carry a pile of spare bulbs in my tool kit and once said to a female colleague,
" Do you want me to put a new rear bulb in for you" having noticed she had a brake light out.
The response was as though I had made some sort of indecent proposal, *really* offended.
She drove around for weeks after, eventually having it replaced by another (hated) *man* at a garage, during a service.
Then there was the time I went through a door and just waited a second holding it open rather than let it slam in the face of another female colleague who was about 3 yards behind me. " you did that because I am a woman" said with venom...
Now who would let a spring loaded door slam in the face of another person, male or female?
and I used to pop the odd bulb in ( and more) in lunchbreaks for male colleagues too, who had no interest or knowledge of cars.
I had 22 years of this with feminist colleages and the challenge post retirement is to try to still treat all people the same, for example if seen struggling with a puncture.
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Sorry, my post above should be to MK124, not rtj70
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Slightly off the original topic, but following the 'sexist' discussion, I remember when I was doing a technology course at uni. about 15 years ago,- there were two women on the course who also objected to having doors held open for them - one lady even vehemently objected to the references to 'male' and 'female' plugs...!
P.
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>>there were two women on the course who also objected to having doors held open for them - one lady even vehemently objected to the references to 'male' and 'female' plugs...!>>
Normally I would comment that such women were last in the queue for brains but, in this case, it would appear they weren't even in the queue.
I also find it interesting that some of the most aggressive and arrogant drivers I come across on the roads these days are women and that the percentage is rising all the time.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
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My sister always calls me when theres something shes not sure about on her MGF, even though i bought her a Womans Guide to Car Maintainance which is actually very useful if you have no knowledge of cars. The other day she didnt even know how to open the bonnet for goodness sake.
And yet my sister is one of those go-getters who works hard and always puts her best foot forwards.... excpt when it comes to cars in which case she throws her hands up in the air and calls someone to change a wheel.
I once changed a wing mirror for a friend of mines parents just as a favour as the glass and housing had been smashed. I worked at Rover main dealer and he had an old 214, so I got a big discount on the mirror and hoped to pass it onto my friends parents.
He also asked me to fit it - all of three screws and removing a small cover as it was a manual mirror. Took me 5 mins tops. I went in and gave him my invoice for the mirror which I believe came in at around £35 or so. He then gave me £70 and I said he didnt have to, I wasnt expecting to get paid - he said thats why I was!
They are stauch christians mind you and exceptionally nice people, so I guess I should have expected it really.
There are good people out there still.
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I always open the car door for my wife to get in and out because my old man did the same for my mother for as long as I can remember. When I last visited though, I noticed he'd stopped doing it and I have to say I was a bit disappointed, especially now she could really use the help.
The worst bit of ungentlemanly conduct I ever witnessed was in a Tesco car park some years ago. It was pouring down and I was parked up watching the couple opposite load their car from the shopping trolley. The bloke got straight into the car leaving his wife to do everything, empty a full trolley into the boot while he sat there on his lazy butt. It left a lasting impression on me, and to this day I regret not either helping her or dragging the rude git out and battering him with a tin of beans.
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Bid Bad dave, I have to say if that's the "The worst bit of ungentlemanly conduct" you've ever witnessed you must have led a more sheltered life than your moniker suggests
I hate these sexism arguments because they tend be very revealing in people of the dreadful effects of ageing on the mental faculties but this comment,
"It left a lasting impression on me, and to this day I regret not either helping her or dragging the rude git out and battering him with a tin of beans."
...with its aggressiveness and threatening tone... well it's just unnecessary - you know - making yourself look better - 'what a gentleman I am to have such sensitive feelings for the little lady'- how patronising!
Sorry mate :( but you know you can be gentlemanly, well-mannered and civil without being patronising and condescending - or starting fights with other 'blokes' for disrespecting "the ladies"
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"Bid Bad dave, I have to say if that's the "The worst bit of ungentlemanly conduct" you've ever witnessed you must have led a more sheltered life than your moniker suggests"
Yeah, a thoughtless use of an absolute I admit but don't make any assumptions about my Moniker. It's nothing more sinister than a term of affection used by my old business partner.
"...with its aggressiveness and threatening tone..." - It was supposed to have a humorous tone, hence the weapon of choice - the tin of beans. Do I really have to resort to using daft smiley faces to make it fool-proof? (*)(*)
"making yourself look better" - If I wanted to make myself look better I'd try a little bit harder than the frankly ridiculous image of a man beating another man over the head in a car park with his own grocery.
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8< SNIP - this, and other comments in reply to it removed - DD
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Slightly off the original topic, but following the 'sexist' discussion, I remember when I was doing a technology course at uni. about 15 years ago,- there were two women on the course who also objected to having doors held open for them - one lady even vehemently objected to the references to 'male' and 'female' plugs...! P.
Blimey.Just as well they they didn't work in motorsport.sexist and very un-pc.maybe thats part of the reason why I love it.
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one >> lady even vehemently objected to the references to 'male' and 'female' >> plugs...! >>
I wonder if 'rapist' and 'victim' plugs would get a better reception.
Perhaps 'plug plug' and 'socket plug' would pass muster. The militants I knew from the Ladies' Liberation Front didn't go in for this petty PC stuff, after the first burst of enthusiasm. They were quite cool actually.
Perhaps stevied has a correct terminology? :o)
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mk124.....
sorry, but i utterly disagree with your post.....
just because some in our society have become politically correct or are feminists, doesn't mean that all do...
furthermore there is no way i'm going to ignore a 'damsel in distress', just because some man who has a flat tyre might be offended either.........i'll follow my instincts and do what i wish to.
I do not consider women to be 2nd class either, just different. Not long ago we had a female Prime Minister and female Head of State and i'd willingly go back to that, compared to what we've got now.
I ask my wife to sew buttons on my shirt, not because i can't physically do it, but because she makes a better job of it than me and has more patience..........similarly i'm the one that washes the cars, fills them with fuel, mows the lawn, etc,etc because she doesn't want to be bothered with that.
in other words 'horses for courses'.
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An old friend of mine, a lifelong asthma sufferer and now with diabetes too, was struggling up a staircase in a Belgian (I think) railway station a year or so back carrying a heavy suitcase, puffing and blowing a bit. A young fellow passing by took the suitcase out of his hand, bounded up the stairs and put it on the ground. Arriving at the top of the stairs, my friend thanked him and he replied: 'It is OK, I am young.' My friend thanked him again. The young man replied, in perfect English too:
'Perhaps one day, when I am old like you, a young person like me may help me in the same way. Good day.'
Apart from the sweetness of nature revealed, my friend, an academic, was very impressed by the perfect English, whose equivalent, he felt, would be hard to find in this country.
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Knowing my lack of skill in getting my point across, I am loath to join in but... here goes!
I think the main point here is about civility, and politeness. As a male feminist, and no it's not an oxymoron, I will NOT do things for women just because they are differently genitalled. However, if a PERSON is struggling to do something, and obviously in distress, then I will assist if I can. There are plenty of ladies out there who CAN do the things we've talked about, or could if they learnt to. Obviously if us blokes are foolish enough to pander to their every request, then why would the lazy amongst them bother to learn? But most PEOPLE aren't like that. It takes a frightening or difficult situation to make people realise they need some basic skills, men or women.
I must admit I struggle with the opening the car door scenario..... my girlfriend is 27 and perfectly able-bodied, why do I need to help her get out of a car? That, to me, isn't "gentlemanly" it's just pointless. And before you all jump on my head, I open doors for people of all ages and both sexes, and will help people with suitcases, or bags or whatever. And if I had a wife or girlfiriend who was struggling with walking or other health things, then, yes I would assist. And I would hope that were the tables turned, she'd help me too!!
I will never be as sweet-natured as the Belgian of Lud's story, but I hope I am polite, civil, helpful and don't make this ridiculous distinction between men and women.
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Excuse a slight tangent! As a slightly older person I appreciate good service when I get it. I am continually amazed at how many quite large shops seem to be run completely by teenagers or at the oldest, people in their 20s. I guess they are probably on the legal minimum wage, and maybe some staff discount, but it doesn't amount to a great living and I always thank them for their work and the service that I get. One such person chased after me the day other to return my wallet which had fallen on the floor when I 'missed' the pocket I thought I had put it into!
The other day my 3 month old microwave packed up. I took it back to Currys where I had bought it; with out slightest quibble they exchanged it on the spot; I got a new one with a new 12 month warranty and, because the price had gone down £50 since I bought it, I got a £50 refund! A charming member of staff took the new one out to my car and when I tried to discreetly tip him £5 he said that it was not necessary. I wrote a letter to head office, copied to the Branch Manager saying what good service I had had.
On balance I think that if we show appreciation for good service, as well as complaining at the bad, the World is a better place, for the customers and the workers! Pedant mode off!
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I always will stop if I see a lone woman stranded. They can always tell you to move on if they don't want your help.
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The worst behaviour by a customer recently witnessed was on Saturday at a Lidl and the customer in question was the one behind me in the queue. I'd popped in to buy a set of wipers, also picked up some car mats and flowers for the wife. Anyhow the queue was moving slow with only 2 checkouts open, the 'lady' behind me starts moaning to me about the length of the queue, so I just smiled and said 'it doesn't matter which queue I'm in it's always the slowest'. So after a couple more minutes another till is opened and this lady goes ballistic complaining that people that were behind her are now being served (her goods are on the 'belt at this stage) and that she shops here all the time, etc. Frankly it was disgusting the way she went off, especially since she looked to be retired and so I presume could go shopping any day she wanted and should also be able to remember the days when there wasn't shops full of everything at good prices. I couldn't believe it just for the sake of 10 minutes.
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Xantia HDi.
Buy a Citroen and get to know the local GSF staff better...
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Of course being hot-tempered can lead one to behave in a way that one regrets almost immediately, and queues either for check-out or for attention can wind one up.
Many years ago now, although it still makes me shudder to remember it, I was queuing at the local Pakistani supermarket for some cigarettes late in the evening. As I reached what I thought was the front of the queue, a geezer nipped in from the side and was attended to first. When the guy behind the counter turned to me I said, loudly and clearly, 'Twenty pink fluffy dice Players, please.'
'What?' the assistant asked. The man behind me in the queue found it hilarious and said: 'You heard the man, he asked for twenty pink fluffy dice Players!'
'I think you've had too much to drink,' the assistant said as he handed over the cigarettes. The apparent queue jumper had gone back for something while being attended to, but I had not noticed that. I was indeed as ripped as a stoat, but not about to admit it under the circumstances. My young daughter, deeply embarrassed, scolded me all the way home.
The next time I saw that assistant I apologised and told him he had been quite right, that I had been a bit ripped. He runs another shop now and we are still on friendly terms.
Always, always count up to ten before letting rip in those circumstances. I am blushing yet again as I write.
{Not letting you get away with that one Lud - DD}
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: )
Sounds like the sort of thing I used to do all the time. I am mellowing with age, although it doesn't take much more than an indulgent night out and less than 8 hours sleep to turn me into a ranting lunatic again.
As I said above, I try my best to be egalitarian, civil and polite at all times..... but sometimes I get very upset if it's not reciprocated. Lud's story is EXACTLY the sort of thing that'd happen to me, I'd get all outraged at someone's perceived slight or lack of fair conduct, only to be proved absolutely 100% wrong. And, more than likely, "as ripped as a stoat".
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{Not letting you get away with that one Lud - DD}
Sorry DD. Wasn't really trying to get away with anything, just that the anecdote reads better if there is no doubt what was said. And it surely isn't an encouragement to use improper language or a celebration of it! Nevertheless I hang my head in shame and blush once more for the camera.
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' also picked up some car mats and flowers for the wife.'
That must have made an unusual arrangement,does she use a special vase for the mats?
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Spot on, Mr Shanks. Same goes for waiters and waitresses, I can remember doing THAT thankless task for the terminally overpaid in a posh hotel in Cheshire. I don't think many of the people there could remember a time when they weren't pompous old fools with more sense than money. When someone took the time even to speak to me, or god forbid, tip me, I almost cried.
We all can think of surly service from such people, but they're not ALL like that, and we don't know without talking to them what they're like...
Garage staff are the same. I think we all have the stereotype of the surly person on the phone with the beeping in the background as he ignores the people taking the hose out of the pump.... but the people at my local garage are without exception friendly, amusing and efficient. Some are young and obviously students or the like, some are retired and working part-time... it's very refreshing.
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Its funny that, when talking about the same shop/garage whatever, different people will say it is the worst staff they have encountered and others will say its the best, and its not often that either type of client finds themselves proved wrong.
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I treat people as they treat me.
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Good posts, enjoyed reading them and i still open doors for men and women but occasionally do get annoyed when i am treat with ingratitude (i dont expect a tip).
Tip of the day now....
Next time you are at the supermarket and the person in front is more interested to be talking on the mobile/friend/etc and doesnt put the next customer card behind their shopping dont you do it too and let the cashier put at least 5 of your articles on their bill before they realise,i bet they dont do this again,i do this all the time now unless they are elderly
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>>I treat people as they treat me.
For once I'm being serious.
I really do not agree.
Firstly I try not to apply other people's standards to my behaviour. Whether that is my driving or as simple as being polite. If I did that I would be no better than them. Its not awlays feasible and sometimes I get annoyed, but generally I know the standards I believe to be correct and try to stand by them.
Secondly, if them being rude to me makes me rude, then me being rude make is going to make them really rude. Etc. etc. etc. Escalation and no end in site.
I do believe that people should pay or be rewarded for their behaviour, but that is usually possible without slipping to theri level.
Consequently I treat people as I would like them to treat me, and get my own back some other way fi they do not.
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When dealing with female members of the public or being served by female assistants, I always use the term "luv" or "dahling" in me best cockerknee twang and smile. Seems to work wonders,
I one had the worst time imaginable with O2 on the phone, pressing 37 different options, being passed to 5 different people and finally being cut off.
ON phoning O2 helpline again it went like this..
"hello this is Fred, how can i help you"
"well Fred, my name is RF, I have just been on the phone for 1/2 hour and finally cut off, now I applogise in advance, I know its not your fault, but if its ok with you, I am going to be the most rude and irate customer you have ever had. I know this call is recorded, so treat it as a training exercise."
we got on like a house on fire and Fred sorted my problem out in mere minutes.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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I open doors for people of all ages and both sexes,
Absolutely agree, however I have met the arrant feminist who was approaching the same door as I, but from the opposite direction (glass door ) I opened the door and stood to one side so she could go through the door first.
She said loudly " I can perfectly well open doors for myself!"
I am ashamed to admit that I just let go of the door so she had to do just that.
It hasn't stopped me from continuing to behave in what I regard as perfectly normal polite manner.
However and also relevant to this thread, I can recall my mother many years ago was travelling to look at a horse (up in Norfolk I believe) with our elderly and very un-mechanical groom. She had a puncture, and neither of them were able to change the wheel.
Mother told him to hide behind the hedge so she could stand and look the damsel in distress, and before long a gentleman stopped and helped her.
After he had driven off she told him to come out of hiding!! She knew that it was unlikely - even back then 1950s - that anyone would stop if she had a man with her.
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I hold open doors for anybody as a matter of course. If however, my action is not acknowledged with either or a nod or a word, I say "I beg your pardon". This frequently results in " I didn't say anything" to which my loud answer is " Oh, I thought I heard you say thank you" Childish but at least I don't talk as loudly as people on mobile phones! Why don't they switch them on?
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I hold open doors for anybody as a matter of course. If however, my action is not acknowledged with either or a nod or a word, I say "I beg your pardon". This frequently results in " I didn't say anything" to which my loud answer is " Oh, I thought I heard you say thank you" Childish but at least I don't talk as loudly as people on mobile phones! Why don't they switch them on?
Yes!! I thank the non-thankee in similar circumstances, which causes confusion.
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Yes!! I thank the non-thankee in similar circumstances, which causes confusion.
Me too, although what realy gets to me is if I hold open a door for someone pushing a pram etc (anyone pushing a pram, not just SWMBO) and some arrogant person will waltz through pushing in front of the pram.
As it happens I helped a young lady change a wheel outside our house yesterday morning, but to be fair her male friend who came to help her was equally clueless when it came to changing a wheel (even after reading the cars handbook).
Oh and a motoring quote from SWMBO about manners "If they can't even be bothered to move one finger and indicate, what are there manners like in person?"
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I tend just to give them a loud 'you're welcome'.
Happened on Sunday. I was on Cannock Chase mountain biking - a group of five orienteers came running the wrong way down a dedicated MTB trail (that is marked as such at all entrances). I stopped to let them go by as I was in no hurry, and got not even an acknowledgement. Very annoying.
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it's a shame that in this country, an old person (and including me) would expect a youngster who grabbed their bag not to stop at the top of the stairs but to continue running, disappearing and adding to the petty theft statistics for the train station. That reaction explains a lot as there is very little trust or sense of community left in this country.
I love going into shops/restaurants/whereever and making the effort to have a chat with the people serving; inevitably I get better service, but the main reason is that the whole experience is better all round. Doesn't cost anything but makes for a nicer day.
The world in which you live is a reflection of you; spend all day scowling and fighting and it'll be a sad place to be as all you'll see are scowls and anger.
I'm with Mark on how to behave to others- treat as you would expect to be treat-with the caveat that I'm no better or worse than anyone else, treating the porters at work with the same respect as the Chief Exec. The latter may be wearing a fancier outfit and drive a flashier car, but they're all just people.
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but they're all just people.
Sorry mate, beg to differ. I dont consider Chief execs to be related to people in any way at all.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
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The last time I failed to open the car door for SWMBO she went berserk at me afterwards, in fact she still brings it up even now.
What an unreasonable cow. I was swimming for my life at the time.
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The last three posts are gems, and have cheered me up after an horrific drive to work. Although, I have to say, I didn't lose my temper once. I have been a shining example of serenity since reading this thread yesterday.
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I'm usually stuck behind the man who insists on having a long conversation with the person behind the counter!!!
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This is a disadvantage of supporting your local shops, jc2! Supermarket = brisk efficiency, keen prices and probably a drive to get there. Local shop = limited choice, high prices and loads of village gossip between the owner and person ahead of you!
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>>I dont consider Chief execs to be related to people in any way at all
{laughing} I know what you mean, but ours seems a decent enough sort!
-- You know, it\'s not like changing toothpaste
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Where we always had a couple of 'breakers', which were used to fill with scrap before recycling - cheaper than a skip, quite often people would ask if we had an old...(obscure part). If we did. or had one 'in the shed', Iid always ay help yourself & there's a money box in the office, for a local animal sanctury & invite them to put a few pennies in. Most were more than happy & sometimes quite generous.
As for the 'could someone have a quick look' customers... rather than mess about invoicing for quickie jobs, we'd just get one of the lads to take an early break 7 suggest the customer would give him a 'drink' for his time.
Saved a lot of hassle or paperwork!!
VB
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