Main Dealer over egging the pudding - Falkirk Bairn
I ahve a car that is 5.5 yrs old and I ahve had it from new. Main dealer serviced until 54,000 then Independent since then (Now 82K).

Yesterday an Engine Mgt Light lit up - phoned the Independent who sai - go to the main dealer as he might not be able to re-set the light. Fair enough I thought and booked it in to the new shiny gin palace.

Phoned at mid day - light re-set but there were other matters that thye could attend to
1) Fan Speed on 1&" needs new rheostat - I told them that poiint - go ahead - thye did not have the part in stock although it is a known problem
2)Front disk [pads and disks need attention
3)AC Condensor was thin and needed replacing
4) Rear trailing arm bushes needed replacement

Paid the £61 and left

Went to the Independent

1) New Rheostat required ( but we knew that)
2) 10mm left on front pads and disks are shiny apart from the edge
Original pads replaced @ 63K and have only done 20K since so are "nearly new condition.
3) AC Condensor - no opinion as he cannot tell
4) Rear trailing arm bushes were markedly better than standard -No play on bushes.
MoT would be no problem in forseeable future.

Return to Main Dealer

Director & Gen Manager

These are advisory and not necessarily required immediately
We parted with strong feelings, on my part, that I was attempted to be hoodwinked -
the Dir was adamant that he & his staff were right.

However on the phone if I had said go ahead I would have new pads and disks, new rear bushes and a new condensor - how much would that have been £800+???? - the car is worth around £2500 as a trade -in.

My parting shot - Its my 60th birthday on Thursday and I have £20K to spend on a motor .................
Dir - we never had you as a customer so we have not lost you - Yes but someone else will get my £20,000




Main Dealer over egging the pudding - Bill Payer
My parting shot - Its my 60th birthday on Thursday and
I have £20K to spend on a motor .................
Dir - we never had you as a customer so we
have not lost you - Yes but someone else will get
my £20,000

It's a merry-go-round, though, isn't it. You're unhappy and buy your car from another dealer. Their customer is unhappy and buys a new car from the dealer that you're unhappy with.
Main Dealer over egging the pudding - Xileno {P}
Indeed. We often hear about people who are annoyed with a particular manufacturer and have received bad treatment (in their opinion). I really don't think manufacturers care too much about criticism, for every customer they lose there's a new one around the corner. I think it's called 'churning' in the trade.
Main Dealer over egging the pudding - Dalglish
...but there were other matters that thye could attend to ...

>>

see www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=36908&...e

Main Dealer over egging the pudding - Dalglish
... see ...

and also

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=42...3

Main Dealer over egging the pudding - Hugo {P}
Dir - we never had you as a customer so we have not lost you


1) They just did. The OP paid £61 for a diagnostic and report

2) It's that kind of attitude that says, "We won't play fair with you because you're not important" that is all too apparent in that dialogue.
Main Dealer over egging the pudding - bell boy
i dont see a problem ? taken to the dealership and they identified reasonable wear and tear items that needed attention ,by the OP's own words the discs have done a good mileage and you need to change the pads with new discs,the condenser is getting thin ,ive had a few of these lately fall to bits like dust in front of my eyes when touched (all korean)
rear trailing arm bushes again subjective,if the car had gone away and next week the OP had a banging noise when traversing a speed bump would not the question on here be 'i went to the dealer last week and they didnt even tell me my bushes were worn
dammed if you do and dammed if you dont i say

to finish would you like large fries with that ;-)
Main Dealer over egging the pudding - Aprilia
As I've posted on here many times before, dealers exist to make money for their shareholders, they are not really interested in cars any more than a potato trader is keenly interested in the etymology of the word 'potato'. Your dealer staff are all on bonuses and are engaging in what the trade calls 'upsell'. This means tyres, wipers, brakes, bushes etc (basically any wear and tear item) are fair game to get a few quid off the punter. With cars needing less and less servicing there is less opportunity for upsell so dealers increasingly seem to jump at the slightest opportunity - this is particularly the case when cars are on long-life servicing. Many of these items are 'subjective' so its easy to say 'in our opinion it needed replacing'. Friction products are favourite to upsell because the margins are very good, the jobs are usually straightfoward and its safety-related so most customers agree to the work without an argument.
What the average car owner needs is a basic and efficient service centre with low overheads, probably based on an industrial estate, that does jobs quickly and accurately with minimal notice. What he gets instead is a glass palace with massive overheads, with assorted 'service writers', 'greeters' and where it costs more to change the oil on a Golf than on an RB-211 jet engine. Customers are seen as a nuisance - until the quarterly CS stats come in of course...... In other words it is all self-serving and the customer is not getting value for money.
Main Dealer over egging the pudding - GregSwain
Why go to a main-dealer? Plenty of independant places have diagnostic equipment which can read codes, reset lights etc.

Prime example is my girlfriend's 53-reg Clio. Quote for a Renault Dealer service = £310. That's for an MOT, oil change, some new filters, checking the levels and possibly balancing the front wheels. Their labour rate is £65/h for a Clio!! (A friend who owns a Volvo T5 said his main dealer wanted £87/h!!!!!!!!)

Quick chat on the phone to the service centre up the road from my house = £140 including the MOT. All filters are Mann, which conform to OE spec, so don't void the warranty. They also fixed a problem with the bonnet-release free of charge, and balanced the front wheels as part of the service. The mechanic said the rear brakes could do with replacing soonish, and the front brake discs are pitted and juddery, but they didn't replace them because they passed the MOT.

OK, I didn't get a "free" courtesy car, or a "free" cup of coffee, or a greeting from a well-dressed woman. But I did get face-to-face contact with the mechanics, and damn good value for money at £30/h labour.
Main Dealer over egging the pudding - bignick
The trend towards longer and longer service intervals has been a goldmine for the "upsellers" - they can quite legitimately say for example,
"We don't think your pads/discs will last to the next service."
The same applies to most other "wear and tear" items.
As the next service may be 20.000 miles away this does not mean that they need replacing now but that will be the impression they will try to give you.
Main Dealer over egging the pudding - Bill Payer
"We don't think your pads/discs will last to the next service."


..and there's nothing wrong with that. That's certainly how our company leased Peugeot's (20K intervals) were serviced. I'm sure there would be be people who would complain if the brakes 'wore out' mid way between services and would accuse the garage of not doing a proper job.

Talking about 'upselling' - it never ceases to amaze me that dealers (or at least the dippy service receptionists) generally don't have any clue about what work is required on the car, based on its age & mileage. They never suggest brake fluid changes, pollen filters etc.
Main Dealer over egging the pudding - machika
There is a world of difference between saying that brake pads, for instance, won't last until the next service and saying that they will probably need replacing within 10K miles, which might mean a year's motoring to the some drivers.

As far as the main dealer saying they had never had him as a customer, well they did for 54K miles, I assume, and if all they are bothered about is that he will be replaced by some other disgruntled punter, then they will never make any progress towards increasing their customer base.

I have recently had experience with my local Citroen main dealer, who did sort out a problem the independent I deal with couldn't do. However, they have left me with a different problem. I was persuaded to have an update to the engine software in the course of trying to sort out the initial problem. The money I spent on the software update turned out to be a waste of money and, unknown to me at the time, required an update to the automatic gearbox software also. This has been to the detriment of the characteristics of the gearbox. Recently, I was travelling along the A50, doing about 85 mph, pushed the throttle pedal down to overtake a line of cars and the the gearbox kicked down to 3rd gear. I had it locked in 4th at the time and the car has never done that before. With all of the torque the 2.2 HDI puts out, it shouldn't do either. It tends to change gear at a higher speed from 3rd to 2nd also, which is annoying when travelling aroung roundabouts and bends that it should take easily in 3rd gear. The annoying thing is, that I can't have the original software put back on the car.
Main Dealer over egging the pudding - Falkirk Bairn
Thanks for the variety of replies to my potential Upselling to £800 bill having expected the £50/60 for a light + ££s remedial work.

I put the car in for a Engine Mgt light + Rheostat

I was given a lists of matters not related and according to my Independent mostly unneeded at this time.

The obverse of this was my DiL's Mini - at 34 mths it needed a service which was under the £500TLC programme - paid in advance servicing is "free"

6 weeks later an MoT is needed and the car failed - rusted/corroded pistons on rear brakes - Garage said service was not a service but an oil & filter change - if they had looked and found the brakes they would have been paid warranty money only not the £90 / hour they charge punters for BMW/Mini work. Outcome - Mini fixed at my DiL's expense - mini sold and rival Japanese car bought.

BMW dealer had in 6 mths alienated by son (BMW became a Lexus) and DiL (Mini became a Civic). Corroded disks on Lexus - changed under warranty - no quibbles. Civic - only 8K mls and no work required so garage service quality still to be assessed.
Main Dealer over egging the pudding - machika
£500 for just an oil and filter change, or would that cover more than one oil and filter change. Still a rip-off though.
Main Dealer over egging the pudding - Dalglish
... Still a rip-off though. ..

>>
details here
www.mini.co.uk/UK/html/model_range/mini_one/servic...l
www.mini.co.uk/UK/html/model_range/mini_one/servic...l

is it a rip off?
personally i think this option should be included in the price as standard with every new car, and you should be allowed to opt out (for a small discount) if you wish to delete the option.

Main Dealer over egging the pudding - Dalglish
...Garage said service was not a service but an oil & filter change - if they had looked and found the brakes


garage is going by the terms and conditions of the mini tlc £150 package
note - capitals below are quotes direct from their website, it is not me shouting - as i don't use the caps key. :: ;-) ::

" FOR 5 YEARS OR 50,000 MILES, SERVICING IS COVERED FOR JUST £150
THE LEGAL BIT
..... MINI tlc covers the cost of the parts, lubricants and labour involved in all MINI servicing for 5 years/50,000 miles, whichever milestone is reached first. It does not cover repair and maintenance items, such as tyres, brake pads, etc. If in doubt, ask your MINI Dealer for clarification. .....


you can extend the package to 8 years / 80,000miles for a further £300, making it £450 in total.

Main Dealer over egging the pudding - IanJohnson
I agree with the OP.

Sons Corsa went in or MOT last year (nearest Vauxhall main dealer) - we were told two front tyres were worn to almost 2mm and did we want them changing - I told him to say no as I knew there was at least 5mm on them.

Corsa went back (foolish based on experience?) having done about 3k in the year and they rang to say the rear tyres (same tyres switched front to back to even wear) were down to 2mm and they were a pass but did we want them changing - same answer.

The tyres still have 2mm to go BEFORE the wear bars are level (when 2mm is left) so they will do another year or so at the rate of use it gets. Had several days hassle from SWMBO before I convinced her they were OK - "the garage says . . . . ".

Same garage when daughter's corsa went in for service (still in warranty) reported one tyre badly worn, again I refused - the tyre they reported as worn had only been on for a month (original blistered - on kerb?) and is still as good as new.

Many people won't know any better!

Anyway - why was the main dealer looking at front brakes and rear suspension when you had taken it in for an "engine management " fault - must be short of work or did they really look and are these the standard earners for this type of car?
Main Dealer over egging the pudding - Bill Payer
Sons Corsa went in or MOT last year (nearest Vauxhall main
dealer) -

To be honest, it's a bit bonkers sending a car for an MOT at a main dealer. Even when our Clio, with the 5 yr warranty I'd paid for (and got refunded after 5 yrs and no claims) had to be serviced at a Renault dealer, I still took it to our village garage for its MOT.
Anyway - why was the main dealer looking at front brakes
and rear suspension when you had taken it in for an
"engine management " fault - must be short of work or
did they really look and are these the standard earners for
this type of car?

I had this issue with a Peugeot dealer on a company car - they said that any car that comes into their workshop for any reason has to have a basic safety test.
Main Dealer over egging the pudding - machika
garage is going by the terms and conditions of the mini
tlc £150 package
note - capitals below are quotes direct from their website, it
is not me shouting - as i don't use the caps
key. :: ;-) ::
" FOR 5 YEARS OR 50,000 MILES, SERVICING IS COVERED FOR
JUST £150
THE LEGAL BIT
..... MINI tlc covers the cost of the parts, lubricants and
labour involved in all MINI servicing for 5 years/50,000 miles, whichever
milestone is reached first. It does not cover repair and maintenance
items, such as tyres, brake pads, etc. If in doubt, ask
your MINI Dealer for clarification. .....


So what exactly is covered by the service? Surely it must be something other than an oil and filter change for that kind of money? They must check for faults and wear and tear during 5 years/50K miles, whether there are any extra charges for putting them right, or not and surely there would be items that might want replacement or repair that would be covered by the warranty. Would the corroded brake pistons not be covered by the warranty?
Main Dealer over egging the pudding - Dalglish
... So what exactly is covered by the service? ..

>>

so you have not seen my reply and the links posted at 11.42 ?
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=45682&...e
Main Dealer over egging the pudding - Dalglish Wed 11 Oct 06 11:42

surely spoon feeding is for babies.

Main Dealer over egging the pudding - machika
No, I didn't check with your link. However, the question that is raises is whether or not it is sensilble to have only one service that will check for faults/maintenance items before 50K miles? 25K between these checks seems to be stretching it to me.
Main Dealer over egging the pudding - Aprilia
The trend towards longer and longer service intervals has been a
goldmine for the "upsellers" - they can quite legitimately say for
example,
"We don't think your pads/discs will last to the next service."
The same applies to most other "wear and tear" items.


This is not the case. VW and Skoda 'upselling' as taken a real hit with long-life servicing, whereas SEAT dealers are holding up well (not on longlife).
One of the major reasons is that when a car comes in for longlife service there are a fair few wear and tear items that the dealer spots. The owner is then shown a very hefty estimate. Many owner baulk at this and take the car away to 'think about it' (i.e. take it somewhere cheaper to have the work done). In contrast the SEATs come in for service more often and so the additional work bills are a lot smaller and easier for the owner to say 'yes' to. Longlife is thus a major problem for service managers trying to make their upselling targets and one wonders whether it will continue for much longer.
Main Dealer over egging the pudding - Stuartli
Several main dealerships in my area advertise servicing "for any make or model of car", usually at a fixed price of £79 or £89.

A longish summary of what is done is detailed, including an oil and filter change, but apart from the latter it all seems to be "Check this" and "Check that".

I have an oil and filter change done on my car at National's Ormskirk branch for the standard fee of £20 (was £15 at one time) for semi-synthetic oil and a filter and do the other "checks" myself as and when required.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
Main Dealer over egging the pudding - bignick
>> Longlife is thus a major
>>problem for service managers trying to make their upselling targets and
>>one wonders whether it will continue for much longer.

Rumours have been kicking around for years about the "longlife" vehicle - usually with a caveat that the only reason it hasnt been introduced is that the oil companies cant produce a long life oil.

Apart from an annual oil and filter change the first time many vehicles get anything like a proper inspection will be at MOT time.

The "small" service schedule should include a visual check of safety items but this can often be skipped by a technician under pressure to turn a vehicle round in minimum time and earn his bonus!
 

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