I Have a Question - Volume 139 - Dynamic Dave

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Estate agent's selling fee - L'escargot
What's the going rate for an estate agent's selling fee, percentagewise?
Estate agent's selling fee - adverse camber
1.5% - 3% near me. Doesnt correlate to quality. Usually negotiable but those are the published numbers.
Estate agent's selling fee - adverse camber
Oh and check what extras apply.

Some charge extra for photos, newspaper adverts, withdrawing from the market, etc. (makes you wonder just what they do for the basic couple of thousand pounds other than stick the details up in their office.)
Estate agent's selling fee - storme
.75% or 1% for a sole agency here in Poole Dorset.

sometimes a bit more for a national company
Estate agent's selling fee - Altea Ego
2% here sole agency, 3% multi agency
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Estate agent's selling fee - Stuartli
Seems to be getting more and more popular in my area to sell your property yourself.

One of the local freebie newspapers even has a section devoted to those type of property sales.
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Estate agent's selling fee - Nsar
I'd guess that's the paper that doesn't get much by way of estate agents' full page ads - they are what keep most local papers going so to encourage DIY sales would be suicide.
Estate agent's selling fee - Stuartli
>>I'd guess that's the paper that doesn't get much by way of estate agents' full page ads >>

Well today's issue is an 80-page issue; 17 are devoted to properties and estate agents and 16 are motoring related.

Part of the reason is the virtually 100 per cent circulation per households and part the very much more acceptable advertising rates compared to the paid for publication's high rates; in fact the latter's charges are considerably higher than the evening newspapers sold in the area.

Just as important with the freebie is that its editorial staff set a high standard, covering all types of stories, as well as not being frightened to praise or criticise as and when necessary in the public's cause.
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Estate agent's selling fee - PhilW
We have paid 1.6% in Leeds and about the same in N. Yorks. Whether they are worth that for what they do is debatable. Much as it pains me to say it, we thought the solicitors were much better value since they actually seemed to do some work for their money. The estate agents seemed to be working for the purchasers rather than us yet we paid the bill. If you have the time and inclination I would be inclined to do as stuartli advises.
Estate agent's selling fee - Stuartli
I've said in another thread that, in my opinion, many estate agents are parasites; I also believe that it's their "valuations" of properties that has mainly contributed to the ever escalating prices of properties through over valuation figures.

Any business or individual who works on a commission basis would naturally seek to maximse their financial return, one of the reasons I've always avoided insurance brokers whether for vehicle or property insurance purposes.
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Estate agent's selling fee - AngryJonny
The estate agents seemed
to be working for the purchasers rather than us yet we
paid the bill.

Think about it.

If you want to sell your house for 200k, at 1.6% the estate agent's commission is £3200. They could be working like mad to sell the house at that price. At 180k the house might sell itself in minutes, but the estate agent still gets £2900. What incentive does the estate agent have to fight the price up to the 200k you want? Even if they only sold one more house in the time they could have "wasted" selling yours for the asking price they're still better off to the tune of thousands.

Personally, I'd say "I'll pay 1.6% up to 195k and 25% of anything above that" - at least they might then fight the price up a bit for me.
Estate agent's selling fee - PhilW
"What incentive does the estate agent have to fight the price up to the 200k you want?"
The money I am paying him to sell it rather than the nothing he gets from the purchaser?
If I am paying £3000 for something, I expect a good service, not that he works in the interest of someone who is paying him nowt.
But I do see your point!
Estate agent's selling fee - AngryJonny
The money I am paying him to sell it rather than
the nothing he gets from the purchaser?

Ah.... that's you thinking like a paying customer, rather than an estate agent. Unfortunately, that's the industry - an estate agent with morals is a poor one. It's almost Darwinism in action - like Traffic Wardens - only the ones with no moral values end up being good enough at the job to keep it.
Estate agent's selling fee - PhilW
"only the ones with no moral values end up being good enough at the job to keep it."
Cheers AJ - I suspect you are right - but I just wish they would seel or house quickly, then I wouldn't feel so bad about handing over the dosh!
Estate agent's selling fee - cheddar
Watch out for the VAT, some quote inclusive, some exclusive, the latter can sound better though not be so.

Reckon at a consumer level it is wrong to quote exclusive of VAT, afterall if you sell, say, a £300k house and have been quoted 1.5% you can reasonably expect to pay £4500 however with VAT it is £5287.50 which is actually 1.76%.

Estate agent's selling fee - mare
Most recent sale, 1.25%.

Only bit of advice is to recommend getting an agent who is on www.rightmove.co.uk, kind of the Auto Trader for Houses. You want maximum exposure.
Estate agent's selling fee - BB
Here in Nottingham, Bairstow Eves want 1.75%, The Nottingham want 1.5%

Down in Nuneaton, my friend has got a local estate agency for 1%

As said above, look at small print etc etc
British Motor Show - Rebecca {P}
I have a couple of complimentary tickets to the British Motor Show valid 24-28th July - they came with my ticket

They are not for resale, but if a bona fide Back Roomer can make use of them I will happily post them on. Please don't sell them on as that is not in the spirit of this post.

Any takers?

British Motor Show - Nsar
Go on Now Wheels - you know you'd love it.
Battle of the Somme - Where to Visit? - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}
Am camping just north of Amiens in a few weeks. Is it far to the battlefields and monuments of the Somme campaign?
The maps I've seen assume a specialist knowledge of the locations with names like Lochnagar etc.
I wasna fu but just had plenty.
Battle of the Somme - Where to Visit? - Pugugly {P}
My area of expertise !. You need to get two books.

1. Major and Mrs Holt's Battlefield Guide to the Somme. ISBN 0-8502-414-8. This is not a specalised book but a colour guide to the Somme. It is orientated to the Car user.

2. Rose Commbs' Before Endevour Fades (BEF - Geddit) a black and white A4 format book. Based on Michelin Maps. ISBN 0-900914-85-1

But number one is far less anorakish.

Both a widely available in Bookshops and online but can be bought in theatre (IYKWIM) at the many shops in the Albert area and on the Battlefileds themselves - I got my copy at the Ulster Tower on the Somme.

Quick visit must sees.

1. Beaumont Hamel.

2. Thiepvel Monument

3. Mametz Wood (particularly moving when I was there last time a couple of Julys ago) this is very much like it must have beeen beofre Armageddon visited 90 years ago, the only sign of conflict is an incredible Welsh Dragon pointing in the direction of the Welsh Division Advacnce. This Division suffered huge losses here and were branded as cowards by many Generals because of their faliure to engage the Grmans.

I saw a visitor in his 40s in tears there on the sunny afternoon I visited.

There is a passage in "Up to Mametz" by Wyn Griffith, which haunts me and brings a lump to my throat now writing about it now even.

" We talked in Welsh, for they were Anglesey folk, one was a young boy, and after a thunderous crash in our ears, he began to cry out for his mother, in a thin voice boyish voice 'mam, mam......' I woke up and pushed my
way to him, fumbling in my pockets for my torch, and pulled him down to the bottom of the Trench. He said that his arm hurt,. A corporal came to my assistance and we pulled off his tunic to examine his arm. He had not been hit but he was frightened, still crying quietly. Suddenly he started again, screaming for his mother, with a wail that semed older than the World in the darkness of that night......."

If you get achance read that book.............
Battle of the Somme - Where to Visit? - Pugugly {P}
If the WW1 hooks you, like it did me. COnsider the following reads as essential.

1. August 1914. Barbera Tuchman. The bravery of the tiny British Regular Army defies description. They fought the German war machine to a standstill (hugely outnumbered though they were) This was in open battles. The BA then fought a fighting retreat for 10s of miles on foot in good marching order, in a remarkable show of organisational skill, where lesser Armies would have given up or got lost, at that point the had they had the best Generals in the game,these guys went on to fight through the hell that was the first world war. At one point the BEF in the shape of the Royal Fus. held the line at Mons (which I had the pleasure of visiting in the company of Richard Holmes a few years ago - if you get the chance....) and their rate of fire was so high that the Germans thought they were up against machine gunners rather than rifle fire. This is still a remarkably atmospheric place - especially a little railway station where a soldier sacrificed his life (and got a VC) to cover his pals' retreat. Le Cateau is largely unchanged, some remarkable tales from here especially from the RFA who rode in to storms of steel to spike or recover the field guns, again remarkable bravery from a tired and strectched little Army. The little known battles of the Cheshires and the last British Cavelry charge, the Cheshires were all but wiped out in close quarter fighting but kept their Colours which were bravely hidden by a local in his house until the same regiment marched that way in 1918. What a lot of people don't know that the first British contact and the last British Firefight were within half a mile of each other in Mons.

2. The War the Infantry Knew. Capt. Dunn. Back in print now. Chronicles the history of 2nd Bat. Royal Welch. From their deployment to the last shot. Very very impressive.

Finally the Somme wasn't the defeat that a lot of people perceive. It was the first foot on a rocky and sometimes the mudddy road to ultimate victory, a hard lesson but it final Victory in Flanders follwoing the changes in tactics from the near chatastrophic errors in Picardy.
Battle of the Somme - Where to Visit? - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}
Plenty of books in our library but all history , rather than what you can actually see nowadays and where to find it. Still- I now have a rough idea of the directions to go.
Thanks for the information.
A pity it was not the war to end all wars.
I wasna fu but just had plenty.
Anyone got a Belkin Surgemaster ? - adverse camber
I have a belkin Surgemaster, it has two leds on it a Green one labeled "Protected" and a red one labeled "Earthed".

When it is in use BOTH leds illuminate - Does anyone know if this is normal or should only the green one be lit? I've tried seaching but I get millions of links to people selling them - cant find instructions anywhere.


Anyone got a Belkin Surgemaster ? - Stuartli
As there are a number of Surgemaster models you need to go to:


and, hopefully, you'll be able to download the manual or use the FAQ.
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Anyone got a Belkin Surgemaster ? - Zebra
I believe the two lit LEDs are a positive indication.

Protection is on, and the equipment is correctly earthed. Shame they use a red LED for a safe indication.

Anyone got a Belkin Surgemaster ? - adverse camber

The red one being on worried me and I couldnt remember if it has always been like that.

The belkin site was crashing on downloads earlier - I did try but all I could find was the warranty info.

Red LED for OK does seem a bit daft.


Anyone got a Belkin Surgemaster ? - L'escargot
I believe the two lit LEDs are a positive indication.

Yup, mine are both lit. The thing which confuses me is the "Input" and "Output" marking on the two phone connections. I had to guess because there were no instructions in the packaging. I guessed that "Input" had to be connected to the phone socket on the wall and "Output" had to be connected to my PC, but it depends on which way you think the signal is going.
Luxembourg - No FM2R
Anybody know it well ?

What's like as a place to live and work ? Its one of the few palces I've never been. All comments welcome, but don't go to too much effort because its only a vague thought at this time.
Luxembourg - Stuartli
I've driven in Luxembourg - it was so featureless in the area that we passed through that no one really remembered anything about it afterwards.

No doubt there are some more enjoyable areas to visit there.
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Luxembourg - Pugugly {P}
I came upon it through the south and the Battlefileds of the Bulge. Bland on first glance, it's citizens sufffered badly in WW1 in some of the worse atrocities of the war. I Spent a night in a tent under the city walls.....it was a while ago !
Luxembourg - SjB {P}
Written from the perspectives of:

1) a short holiday destination when living in Belgium
2) somewhere to pit stop on many pan European tours for a tank of cheaper fuel

The country is featureless and nothing special unless you go searching, though we found the city to be clean and well kept.
Fuel aside, costs were high and shops and restaurants were often classy.
The people are on average wealthy citizens (often very much so) with good education, though in my personal experience extreme arrogance has unfortunately been a common bed fellow; not everyone is arrogant, of course, but I have experienced a higher proportion here than elsewhere.

Luxembourg - cheddar
Probably the most attractive thing about Luxembourg is it's (relatively) close proximity to some of the most interesting places in Europe, Brussels, Antwerp, Liege, Cologne and the Ardenne to the north, Paris and Reims to the west, Alsace, Strasbourg and the Alps to the south and east and not all that far from old blighty!
Luxembourg - No FM2R
Very good points specially on the proximity thing.

How about ...

Road system ?
Public transport ?
House prices ?
Cost of living ?
Luxembourg - Altea Ego
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Plumbing Question - Simon (Anne\'s Other Half)
I've just extended the central heating system in to next door as part of the renovation work we're doing.
SWMBO has bought a BIG bath for the new bathroom (2m x 1m) and was told the little combi boiler would not fill it quickly enough. I bought an OSO unvented indirect cylinder to just do this bath and the new shower, and intended to have the washbasins & sinks run from the combi.

Someone at work has now told me that when his house was re-fitted with CH and had a similar set-up, a three way valve was fitted to the unvented cylinder, and it had something to do with temperature regulation. He is not technical, so can't explain much more, but is adamant this is true.

I'm totally confused now. I thought the CH from the combi would do the majority of the heating through the coil, with the immersion element kicking in when the thermostat said it needed to. I don't understand how/why/where this valve would go, or why I need it.

Anyone any ideas what he means, and if I need one?

Plumbing Question - Stargazer {P}
I think you are talking about using the CH part of the combi boiler to in addition heat an auxiliary cylinder of water.

Two possibilities for the valve..

1. Blending valve on the output to limit the maximum temperature to avoid scalding.

2. 3 way valve combining with the cylinder thermostat to get the combi to heat the water through the coil and stopping it once the cylinder has reached the set temperature. Probably interlocked with the CH thermostat
so that it works even when the CH is not required.

Case 2 is mandatory under Part L (fuel efficiency) of building regs
Case 1 is mandatory for hospitals, residential homes etc but there are noises about making it mandatory in homes.

I think case 2 is the most likely given your description.

Plumbing Question - sine
Sounds like quite a nice setup to me - should provide the best of both worlds.

I'm totally confused now. I thought the CH from the combi would do the majority of the heating through the coil, with the immersion element kicking in when the thermostat said it needed to. I don't understand how/why/where this valve would go, or why I need it.

I'd of thought the combi would do all of the heating through the coil. All the time the system works the immersion heater switch should be firmly in the OFF position only to be used if the combi breaks down otherwise you'll be wasting 50% of your money on heating up the sea next to the power station.

You'd definitely need the 3 way valve Stargazer mentions in Case 2 (or two 2 way valves), and I would guess a 2 channel timer otherwise you'd have no simple way of separating the heating from the HW.

Are you fitting the system yourself? Beware if your work friend is not confident about describing his system. Unvented cylinders and their expansion vessels and pressure relief valves demand respect and I believe the council should be notified of your intention to install an unvented system and, after fitting, the installation should be approved as being safe before use.

Plumbing Question - Altea Ego
Using a combi and an indirect cylinder?

This is really a very bad idea, leading to very dificult to control water heating.

1/ It will only work when the system is calling for central heating. Using the elctric immersion element to back this up is very expensive,. you will need to have it turned on all the time to provide hot water with no central heating. In fact in this weather you will be using electricity all the time to heat the water in your new cylinder.

2/ You will need to design and plumb a bypass for the cylinder, using a three way valve, and a cylinder theormostat (withe all the required pipework and electrics so that when the temperature of the cylnder is reached the valve operates to isolate it

Combis and indirect cylinders are NOT designed to work together.

TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Plumbing Question - Hugo {P}
OK I'm no expert in this area but I have a couple of questions.

1) Won't Simon need to have the unvented cylinder fitted by a certified person? ISTR recent regulations mentioning this. Someone posted a photo of an unvented cylinder that had exploded in an attic room, on another forum. I can tell you that the whole room was totalled and the occupants were luck that no one was killed.

2) For what reason have you discounted a vented cylinder? Technically it is possible to link this up to a combi, Maybe some of the 'real plumbers' could enlighten me.

Plumbing Question - rustbucket
A friend at work has a simmilar set up with a combi boiler and a hot water cylinder, I do not know the full details but understand that the hot water cylinder is pressurised so thought that it was a water bomb waiting to go bang.I assume that the hot water tank was not a standard one but one designed to take the pressure.
rustbucket (the original)
Plumbing Question - Vin {P}
" thought that it was a water bomb waiting to go bang"

Water is pretty much incompressible, so even under vast pressure, it cannot explode a vessel. It may rupture it and spring a leak, but no danger.

Plumbing Question - rustbucket
" thought that it was a water bomb waiting to go
Water is pretty much incompressible, so even under vast pressure, it
cannot explode a vessel. It may rupture it and spring
a leak, but no danger.
sorry wrong terminology,

but still under pressure so water can make a mess when it splits / rips more that a leak fom a non pressurised container.
rustbucket (the original)
Plumbing Question - sine
Have to disagree with Vin, they can be rather like a ticking bomb if not fitted correctly as Hugo's description depicts.

I believe the volume of water rises by about 4.4% between 4C and 100C and for the reason that water is pretty much uncompressible the pressure within the cylinder will rocket (as the non-return valve will prevent heated water leaking back into the mains) until it explodes as the material of the cylinder will not expand that much. If the expansion vessel and pressure relief valve are installed correctly though the system is quite safe.
Plumbing Question - pmh
Unvented cylinders are widely used throughout Europe, it only seems that the UK has an issue with them. They come supplied with an overpressure relif valve that vents water to a drain. Much simpler to install ( I have done both in the last year) and has the advantage of high pressure hot water with no combi like restrictions on flow rate. My 200l cylinder is electrictally heated only and the integrated insulation is extremely effective and with a purchase cost of about Euro230 with all fittings would make it a financially viable solution in the UK.
UK plumbers seem paranoid about them (see the Screwfix site) and the uk devices require an annual service by a certified person. Also Uk ones appear to have an expansion vessel, and I am 99% sure the french ones dont have this, relying on a constant over pressure bleed.

pmh (was peter)

Plumbing Question - Vin {P}
"until it explodes as the material of the cylinder will not expand that much"

The reality of that situation is that you have a material inside the tank trying to expand into a volume 4.4% bigger than it currently occupies. That will not cause an "explosion". It may well split a seam, but will not "explode". The pressure may be huge, perhaps hundreds of bars, but the water has no need to expand by more than 4.4% to relieve it.

A vessel filled with air at 200 bar is holding in a gas that, if released, will try to occupy 200 times its current volume. That'll give you an "explosion"

I knew a guy who used to make expansion chamber for motorbikes. He made them flat, then pumped them full of water to expand them. He was pushing steel plating out of shape, so you can imagine the pressures he was using: hundreds of PSI. If a seam broke, there's be a tiny spurt of water.

I'm not saying such a leak isn't a problem, just that there won't be an "explosion".

Plumbing Question - pmh
I imagine that the danger arises if there is an integrated expansion chamber. Surely this will need to be filled with gas sepated from the water by a diaphram. Hence you can have compressed gas (or steam, if the thermostat fails), which can explode thro its container wall. This would presumably account for the stories (I have never seen the pictures) of shrapnel flying around the room.


pmh (was peter)

Plumbing Question - Number_Cruncher
While I agree with the general argument about how hydraulic failures are always of lower energy than the equivalent gas failures, there is also the failure mode of the pressure vessel to consider.

If the pressure vessel fails in a ductile manner, or via springing a containable leak which relieves the pressure (although it unlikely that a so called leak before break type fracture analysis wil have performed by the manufacturer to verify this), then it is likely to be quite safe - although messy!

If the pressure vessel fails in a predominantly brittle manner, the fracture itself will absorb negligible energy, and the fractured part may "fly off".

Plumbing Question - Simon (Anne\'s Other Half)
Thanks for the comments.
Having read up about the unvented cylinders before I bought one, I decided I wasn't knowledgable enough, qualified or safe to install one. The OSO cyinder has a built in expansion vessel, with a full kit of pressure release valves part of the package.
I knew that during summer, and especially in weather like this, it would be expensive to run, but there is no gas for miles around, and the little oil fired combi would not cope at all with the swimming pool SWMBO has chosen for the bathroom.
I've been trying to find an unvented qualified plumber, but no-one advertises they've got the cert. in ads, and when I called a few, the only comments have been 'waste of cash'. Only thing is that my house insurance is invalidated if the cylinder is not installed and certified by a qualified unvented plumber and something goes wrong......

Plumbing Question - wemyss
Simon, All the ones I have been involved in have been mainly industrial types. We changed around twenty normal type calorifiers (cylinder) to pressurised hot water systems in my Establishment. The Industrial type has a pressure vessel mounted on the wall close by and is sized by the capacity of the calorifier which is pretty obvious really.
But included for a couple of small buildings were smaller type which I think were OSO with an integral pressure vessel but I am talking of ten years or so ago.
They were all superb in having mains pressure water available.
As I recall the OSO type were specified to be drained annually to ensure that it was still full of air.
They were relatively easy to install and came with a diagram of pipework which was very simple to follow.
As I see it there is no danger from these cylinders whatsoever and if I were considering changing my cylinder would install one of these.
Its not rocket science and is simply a vessel with an integral air tank to take the increase in pressure on heat up. I?m way out of touch with modern regs and wasn?t aware they needed to be fitted by qualified tradesmen but would have thought any Plumber (A proper one) would find it simple to install.
However regarding your combi being used as the heating boiler I think you would need someone who knows what he?s doing to sort that one out as there are a few problems as mentioned earlier in maintaining control of the system.

Plumbing Question - Onetap
It's astounding how many plumbing/CH queries come up on this site.

An unvented system should be fitted by someone who has passed the CITB/IoP or similar training course (I have). You have to notify the local authority of any installation.

You can have a combi heating a DHWS storage cylinder, either unvented or vented.
I have done this, another contractor had installed a combi boiler in the same room as a 300 litre unvented cylinder; strange.
You'd use two 2-port motorized valves (MV) ; one valve is opened by a CH demand, the other is opened by a DHWS demand. The boiler & pump are enabled by either (or both) of the MVs' micro switches, which are wired in parallel. See the S-Plan wiring diagrams on the Honeywell website, bearing in mind that you may have to adapt the wiring shown to suit your installatiuon.


You will get a 2-port spring return MV (usually a Honeywell V4043) with an unvented cylinder. You MUST use it. The valve will spring return shut in the event of a power failure; this is a safety feature to prevent the stored DHW overheating in the event of a system failure. You shouldn't use a 3-port valve because they spring return OPEN to the DHWS port. This would be unsafe. If you use a 3-port valve, you must also use the 2-port MV; this would be silly.

Foreign unvented cylinders don't usually have any provision to accomodate expansion, the water is just discharged to waste through the expansion/pressure relief valve. UK installations are required by the water regulations to have an expansion vessel or an internal air bubble to accomodate the expansion. Unvented HW storage cylinders are very, very safe, if installed properly and maintained. They could burst explosively if you managed to by-pass the 3 sequential safety devices. This has never happened in the UK yet, it is very unlikely to happen by accident.

See www.waterheaterblast.com if you really want to see what could happen. This is a small water heater (12 US gallons) on which the 2 safety devices have been by-passed and the pressure relief valve has been deliberately plugged.
A traditional vented cylinder could burst in the same way, if it was incorrectly installed or if the vent were plugged (by ice, say). This has happened in the UK.

Moving house - how to and how much? - PoloGirl
Apologies that this question is kind of similar to the one at the start of this thread, but I know there is a fountain of knowledge here!

My other half and I are looking to buy a place together. Technically I'm a first time buyer, but it is complicated by the fact that he currently owns a flat, which he bought from new in march 2005 (so is probably going to lose money on selling it as the prices aren't going up at all). I'm quite clued up on mortgages and things, but the actual processes involved in house buying confuse me!

Is it customary to find somewhere to buy first, or sell the flat first?
Should we be looking at getting a mortgage offer now, even though the flat isn't sold?
I know roughly what the fees are in buying a place, but what are the costs involved in selling?
Any other tips from people who have been there and done it?

Thank you!

Moving house - how to and how much? - RichardW
"Is it customary to find somewhere to buy first, or sell the flat first? "

You might have trouble getting an offer accepted on a house if you say you've got to sell the flat first. If you need to sell it (might it be possible to keep it as an investment?) best to get that done - at least to accepted offer stage before you try and make an offer on something else. It's also easier to convince people to accept your offer if you have no chain dragging you down.

"Should we be looking at getting a mortgage offer now, even though the flat isn't sold?"
Yes - go and see the IFA and you can get a mortgage offer in principal (can't remember what they call it) - which basically says the lender is willing to lend you a certain amount of money, provided you find a suitable place to secure it against. Also helps to work out what you can afford to borrow, and therefore look at.

"I know roughly what the fees are in buying a place, but what are the costs involved in selling?"
Estate agent: 1 - 2% + VAT. Solicitor, around £300 - £500. Removal costs if you can't manage it yourself - depends on how much, how far, and when.

"Any other tips from people who have been there and done it? "

Be prepared for it to take a long time. You will probably see lots of properties that are not qutie right. There will be one though that just seems right. Make sure you don't let your heart rule too much here though - go back again and really look at it, without the rose tinted specs on! Don't overstretch yourself - it's all very well having a big mortgage and 'nice' house, but you won't enjoy it if you can only afford to eat own brand baked beans and Pot Noodles!


Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
Moving house - how to and how much? - No FM2R
>>Is it customary to find somewhere to buy first, or sell the flat first?

Look on it as similar to a situation where you are looking to buy a new car but;
-You need the money from the sale of the old one to buy the new one
-You cannot manage with no car at all

Its a balance, and the saleability of one, the likelihood of finding what you want, the speed of the market, how many buyers you're likely to cmpete with etc. etc. etc are all factors.

>>Should we be looking at getting a mortgage offer now, even though the flat isn't sold?

Yes. That can be done now and is normally valid for a sufficient period of time. It will certainly ensure that you don't get caught up in some red tape or unexpected issue when it really matters.

>>I know roughly what the fees are in buying a place, but what are the costs involved in selling?

See RichardW's note.

>>Any other tips from people who have been there and done it?

Invest in vodka (my choice) or strong sedatives. Its a carp, frustrating, slow, irritating process which verges on the soul destroying.
Moving house - how to and how much? - adverse camber
And you get soooo many timewasters/daytrippers.

Our house is two old terraced cottages that were knocked together sometime in the 1800s. the photos showed the layout/style of the property and had plans showing the shape (which is odd - the terrace bends in the middle of our house)

we had lots of people complaining that the walls werent straight and flat, that we didnt have a garage, some of the floors are not all straight and flat, that some ceiling beams are low, access was across the village green, the primary school playing field was out the back, etc, etc All of which was obvious from the info they had before they visited.

I am convinced that there are a lot of people who go visiting houses for fun.

You need to put the flat on the market and start looking at the same time. You get a feel for what sort of properties are available and the areas and design/layout ideas. Then when you get an offer you are in a position to make an offer on anything you have found. I dont think the market is very good at the moment.

If you get a really good offer consider moving into a rented place together for 6 months, otherwise you try to build up a chain in waiting until you can all go. One of the local agents said that any chain of more than 5 has less than 50% chance of going through.

I preferred cold beer, but the principle is the same.
Moving house - how to and how much? - Happy Blue!
And the government's HIPs will do nothing to speed up the process....but will add cost.

......Just like congestion charging....oh hum
Moving house - how to and how much? - pmh
In 4 house moves, from flat to 3bed semi to 4 bed semi to 4 bed detached ( all in the same area) over a period of 16 years, I was never frustrated thro a lost sale or unreliable purchasers. From memory no move took more than about 3 months from finding a property to completion. Ok this was 20 years ago, but the basic ideas havent changed.
Whether this was luck or using a good agent (using same for selling as buying on 2 occasions) I dont know, but maybe it was because I only accepted realistic selling prices ( makes a buyer very keen to complete) and made good offers (to make the seller very keen). OK this may have cost me several % of the the total deal price but the actual difference in monthly cost is very small and takes away the frustration and expense of lost sales. It helps if you can take control of the situation and select the purchasers yourself, and have a solictor that you fully trust (a personal friend in my case).

I wish you the best of luck in your prospective move.

pmh (was peter)

Moving house - how to and how much? - L'escargot
Is it customary to find somewhere to buy first, or sell
the flat first?

Whatever you do will be wrong in one respect or another.

If you haven't got a buyer for yours first it is likely to be pointed out to you by the vendor or his agent that you aren't in a position to proceed when you make an offer on a property.

But on the other hand you don't want to be put under pressure to find somewhere to buy quickly just because you have a buyer lined up for yours. In that situation it is easy to make a mistake. It depends to an extent on how choosy you are about your next property.

My solution is to find a property that I want to buy, make a sensible offer to register my interest, and then try to find a buyer for mine ~ hoping that in the meantime the property I am after isn't sold to someone else. If that happens then I will stall my buyer until such time as I have found somewhere else. But I will not make a hasty choice of another property just because I have a buyer for mine. Buy in haste, repent at leisure! If the buyer wants to drop out in the meantime I will then start again from scratch. I've found somewhere to buy and mine goes on the market tomorrow.
Moving house - how to and how much? - Stuartli
According to at least two of tomorrow's (Wednesday) newspapers, the House Survey Package scheme is being dropped.

What's more, it should never have been devised in the first place. Just another stealth tax.
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Moving house - how to and how much? - bell boy
i agree another tax on a tax but were/are the papers worth buying???? or is it just another yerbut no scoop[ thats not worth an izal?
Moving house - how to and how much? - artful dodger {P}
Headline article in Telegraph today.


I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
Moving house - how to and how much? - mare
I was in your situation nine years ago. We sold flat, moved in the outlaws and took our time choosing a house. Despite the fact we had no chain behind us, it still took 3 months.

It won't hurt to sort your mortgage out now, FWIW i have an offset mortgage with First Direct and it's brillant. Very adaptable. Not often you can describe a financial product as brillant, but it is. That's only a personal recommendation by the way.

A suggestion: you will need to get proper advice, but how about:

1 - let bf flat out (providing rent covers interest only mortgage and any associated bills)
2 - rent your own flat together in the area where you want to live and get to know it for say six months. Or variation on that.
3 - buy your new home exactly where you want to, without any time pressure.

That's what i wish i had done in 1997. I nearly did on the last move two years ago, but the equity release was more attractive at the time.

I should point out that i work for a property developer, so some would expect me to say the above, but do the sums for yourself and think long term.


Parking at Manchester Airport - Robin
We're off on our jolly hollies in a few weeks time and need a place to park the car. We are flying from Manchester and since we have not flown from there before would like some recommendations for a good carpark. My criteria for good are: not too expensive, not too far from the airport (flight arrives back in the early hours and I don't fancy a 30 minute bus ride with my little one at that time) and should be fairly secure.
Any ideas?
Parking at Manchester Airport - Armitage Shanks {p}
Do you need a night in a hotel, either before the holiday or when you come back? I only ask as I have got a night in a Heathrow Holiday Inn and 11 nights parking for £99. I booked thru a firm called Holiday Extras - a Google should find them for you.
Parking at Manchester Airport - Robin
We don't need a hotel so this is not something we can do. A few years ago I parked my car at a Heathrow hotel and came back to find it broken into. Try to park your car as near to the hotel as you can - we ended up in a quiet part of the carpark just next to a dual cariageway. Nice and easy for the scoats who broke in.
Parking at Manchester Airport - Stuartli
Some links:





Can't offer a personal recommendation as I always use the airport's own car parks (very expensive); claimed on expenses...:-)

Another suggestion is to use a taxi firm in your area that has a service to the airport on a return basis.

It normally works out as cheap orcheaper than paying parking fees and is, of course, door to door. However, the taxis have to leave for the airport earlier than you would in your own vehicle for insurance purposes (it would not exactly be a delight if the taxi was to break down or be held up in traffic)...:-)

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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
Parking at Manchester Airport - Stuartli
Re Armitage Shanks's posting - the Hilton and other hotels at Manchester provide free parking if you stay the night before flying.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
Parking at Manchester Airport - Stuartli

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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
Parking at Manchester Airport - drbe
Have a look at;-


They list all the major air and sea ports. lots of them include parking for 8 or 15 days.
Parking at Manchester Airport - borasport20
Robin - we have used

for the last few years - it is fairly competitive, about 10 mins ride to/from the airport and we have never had to wait more than 5 minutes or so for a pickup

Go on, get out of the car...
Bosch Logixx Tumble Drier. - Pugugly {P}
Anyone got one of these ? SWMBO wants one to match her Washing thing. How does the condensing thing work, does it drain oout of thin tube into the WM drain ? Photo would be helpful.
Bosch Logixx Tumble Drier. - cheddar
We have a washer / dryer, when drying it condenses and drains out of the same waste outlet as it does when washing, no hot air to expel etc, infact our previous one, circa 1994, was the same. I assume the Bosch dryer will also do the same.
Bosch Logixx Tumble Drier. - L'escargot
We have a washer / dryer, ..........

For a washing time of, say, 60 minutes what is the total time including drying? What I really mean is what is the drying time?
Bosch Logixx Tumble Drier. - pmh
If you look at the specn on the Bosch site

you will find......

# LED warning indicator for fluff filter and condensed water container

I would assume that it does therefore not need plumbing in.



pmh (was peter)

Bosch Logixx Tumble Drier. - cheddar
condensed water container

Perhaps condenser washer / dryers vent to the drain though stand alone ones have a tank to make them more flexible re where they can be located.
Bosch Logixx Tumble Drier. - cheddar
>>stand alone ones

I mean condenser dryers as opposed to washer / dryers.
Bosch Logixx Tumble Drier. - cheddar
>> We have a washer / dryer, ..........
For a washing time of, say, 60 minutes what is the
total time including drying? What I really mean is what is
the drying time?

The drying time is set independently of the wash cycle. How long it takes to dry is determined by the size and type of the load and the contents, it would be clever if the unit measured the moisture content of the load and switched of when dry, I am not sure if ours does this or if any do for that matter. Typically - as a rough guess only - I reckon about 40mins is average. We dont use the dryer that often, particulary at this time of year, however it is great to have, also we have put a cupboard where a seperate dryer would fit in our utlity room so a washer dryer also frees up space.
Bosch Logixx Tumble Drier. - Gromit {P}
How does the condensing thing work, does it drain oout of thin tube into the WM drain?

Depends on the exact model you buy. Condenser dryers cool the water vapour coming off the clothes and collect it in a bottle that you remove from the front of the machine (its located in a hatch below the dryer's door) and empty down the sink when the cycle is finished, so no plumbing necessary.

Some - but not all - have an option to detach the hose that runs to the water bottle and run it to a drain instead. Just bought a Hotpoint Ultima for this feature, but haven't installed it yet...
Bosch Logixx Tumble Drier. - adverse camber
we have a bosch condenser dryer. There is a pull out water tank, but you can also pipe it to a waste outlet - its only a thin type. Check the specs of the model you are considering. Bosch do have exploded parts diagrams on the web.

I would say that the quality of it is poor. I have been through 2 switches and currently have a broken part of the linkage that Bosche claim doesnt exist and will not supply as a spare (oh and it isnt on the parts diagram). They want me to spend £100 on a front panel - because it might be in with that - on top of the £30 I've already spent on a replace ment linkage which stopped before the break.

I will buy a miele next time. (quite possibly the end of this year if I cant source a replacement 2 inch piece of plastic that fits.)
Bosch Logixx Tumble Drier. - Pugugly {P}
Thanks all, interesting to see that chaps know about these things !
Electric Shower on the Blink - Nsar
Mison 10kw
Light shows low pressure and no function at all, but tap on sink 1m away works fine as do all other taps in the house.

Anything obvious I should be looking for when I take the front off it?
Electric Shower on the Blink - Peter D
There is a low pressor sensor that shuts the water off if the pressure drops to avoid getting scoulded. The sensor may have failed and will have to be replaced. I remember a very old unit that had a reset mechanical button on it so worth a look. Regards Peter
Electric Shower on the Blink - RichardW
As Peter says, sounds like the pressure switch has failed. Don't forget electricy and water don't mix before opening it! Do a 'net search on Shower Doc - a company that claims to be able to supply just about any part for any shower - and generally has exploded diagrams on their website. My Dad was able to get a new pressure switch for his shower easily from them - and it came on very quick delivery.

Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
Electric Shower on the Blink - defender
check and see if it has a water filter inside which is partly blocked ,have had this problem with a previous shower
Optical audio connectors - SjB {P}
I've recently moved house and am about to lay AV cables in grooves cut in to the structural lounge floor, before laying laminate floor on top; this is the same as I did in my last house, and which gave a superbly tidy installation; tv in a bay window, HiFi on the other side of the room, and not a single visible cable, power, or otherwise.

Since the installation in my previous house I have purchased AV devices with optical connection options - so would like to use them - but they appear to differ;

The Panasonic DVD recorer/player has a PCM/Bitstream optical output that is "female" in nature; small and square, it hinges inwardly to receive a connector.

All other AV devices with an optical option have square "male" outputs that stand proud of the back plate.

The (thick!) user manual for the Dolby Pro Logic II / Dolby Digital /Dolby Digital EX / DTS / DTS EX / NEO:6 amp makes no reference to PCM/Bitstream decoding, so I assume that we are talking two, non-interchangeable, standards, and I am stuck with cable interconnects?

Optical audio connectors - SjB {P}

Just realised the "male" connectors are dust covers! ;-)

Freeview DVD recorders - arnold2
Quick Q - how come you can buy DVD recorders now for less than £50, yet if you want one with Freeview, you have to pay nearly £150 ? Your freeview-less recorder is going to be about as much use as a chocolate teapot when the analogue gets switched off !
Freeview DVD recorders - SjB {P}
Alternatively, do what I did though in my case because Freeview DVD recorders weren't commonly available; I purchased a DVD recorder with analogue tuner and a large capacity hard disk drive with twin Freeview Tuners. We thus record Freeview to hard disk and then copy the small minority we wish to keep or share to DVD.
Freeview DVD recorders - cheddar
Quick Q - how come you can buy DVD recorders now
for less than £50, yet if you want one with Freeview,
you have to pay nearly £150 ? Your freeview-less recorder is
going to be about as much use as a chocolate teapot
when the analogue gets switched off !

To the contrary, simply connect it to what is commonally know as a "set top box". Why are they know as such, who knows, the top of the set being the least convienient place to place one.
karcher 400 jetwash - wemyss
Was using it all day yesterday on my block paving drive. Started it again this morning and whilst it would work OK when you release the nozzle handle the motor keeps kicking in every other second as if there was a leak.
I assume there is a pressure switch to keep the hose line up to pressure but can't see any leak which would account for it.
Read the handbook and apart from a filter on the inlet hose which I checked and instructions on keeping the jet clear there is nothing to account for this.
There is a telephone line to ask the Karcher man to call and repair but imagine that the cost would be impractical.
Anyone experienced problems with these and any advice welcomed.
karcher 400 jetwash - PhilDS
Check your nozzle hasn't worn out.
karcher 400 jetwash - defender
if you cant see any leak externally either the bypass valve or the pressure seals have a very small leak back to the supply or if its a small bit of grit it might clear itself (some hope )if you use it for a while
as many washers dont have a stop when you let go the trigger you could switch it off manually just dont let it run too long with water not going through it and dont let it keep restarting itself for long on a start stop basis or you will harm the motor
karcher 400 jetwash - wemyss
Thanks...I suppose that as you suggest It would be best to continue using it and switching it on and off with the switch on the machine instead of the trigger.
karcher 400 jetwash - Pugugly {P}
You're lucky to have water !
karcher 400 jetwash - bell boy
the resevoirs in wales were fairly low last week so could be birmingham next on the stand pipes....and not be able to wash their cars
karcher 400 jetwash - Altea Ego
they wash their cars in birmingham? when did that start?

TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Domestic battery charger question - Clanger
I have a charger which takes various sizes of domestic Nickel-Cadmium rechargeable battery. Without going into specifics of the make and model of the charger, as a general rule, is it OK to charge the more modern NiMH or Li-Ion batteries in a charger designed for NiCd cells? Do they have similar characteristics? Do I need a new charger? Or will the cells explode causing widespread devastation and a possible change of Government? TIA.
Stranger in a strange land
Domestic battery charger question - Altea Ego
as a general rule, is it OK to charge the more modern NiMH or Li-Ion batteries in a charger designed for NiCd cells?


Do they have similar characteristics?


Do I need a new charger?


Or will the cells explode causing widespread devastation and a possible change of Government?

No and for your failure to blow up the government you will be villified, hung, drawn and quartered and in 200 years time every 22nd July will be celebrated with fireworks and an effigy of you will be burned on bonfires.

TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Domestic battery charger question - Clanger

Thanks both; I'll risk it and hang the consequences!
Stranger in a strange land
Domestic battery charger question - buzbee
is it OK to charge the more modern NiMH or Li-Ion batteries in a charger designed for NiCd cells?

NiMh has different characteristic to a NiCad and that characteristic is used to tell the (intelligent) charger when to switch off. So use a proper NiMh charger if possible.

One of my beefs about the usual 13amp-plug- charger is the absence of info. on the package, as you pick it up to look at in the shop. The usual fixed time charger is a very poor way to do it as it results in under or overcharged batteries.

IIRC Li-ion are even more critical and can dangerous if not used with a correct charger.

I was in ASDA a week ago and they looked to have an intelligent 13A-plug charger by Mallory for AA/AAA, for £15 or so with 4xAA but I could not be sure by what was on the package. I emailed and asked but doubt I will get a reply.
Domestic battery charger question - Altea Ego
chargers and rechargeables are so cheap these days its not worth bothering with anything special certainly no need for intelegence
TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >

Ask Honest John

Value my car