Speeding (mostly excl cameras) Vol 43 - Dynamic Dave

***** This thread is now closed, please CLICK HERE to go to Volume 44 *****


Speeding (mostly excl cameras) Vol 42 is closed and this thread has been started.

For the continued discussions around the subject of speeds & speeding, usually excluding cameras which are in another thread.

Older versions will not be deleted, so there is no need to repost any old stuff.

A list of previous volumes can be found here:-
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=18848


DD,
BackRoom Moderator
Common Sense Prevails - type's'
A lorry driver prosecuted for obstructing police by alerting motorists to a speed trap has won the backing of three law lords in a test case when they ruled in his favour.

Trucker Charles Glendinning was convicted last year by magistrates in Somerset of wilful obstruction after police said he waved a warning to other road-users about a speed trap on the A303 at Tinkers Hill, Stoke Trister.

Although the decision was overturned at Taunton Crown Court the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) took the case to the High Court, which also backed Glendinning.

Now three law lords, headed by the former Lord Chief Justice, Lord Bingham, have again ruled in Glendinning's favour and have refused the DPP permission to appeal.

When the High Court considered the case in February, Mr Justice Owen said there was no evidence that any of the motorists warned by Glendinning had been breaking the speed limit or were about to do so. Owen added that some people might think the police ought to appreciate the efforts of others to prevent speeding. (Reuters)
Common Sense Prevails - Armitage Shanks {p}
A Great Result!

Common Sense and The Motorist ONE -- Jobsworths NIL
Common Sense Prevails - Stuartli
Agree. What's more, many European motorists freely warn oncoming traffic of police speed traps or activity by flashing their headlights.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
Common Sense Prevails - Dwight Van Driver
All Plod has to do now is to include evidence of the fact that in his opinion a vehicle/vehicles was/were travelling at a speed in excess of the limit at which the warning was addressed and the Glenddening case goes out of the window.

....they shall over come them.....

dvd
Common Sense Prevails - Roberson
Once upon a time, the AA used to warn members of speed traps, probably in the same way.....
Common Sense Prevails - Armitage Shanks {p}
No - they did it by failing to salute oncoming members. No salute = plod trap!
Common Sense Prevails - MoodyGit
It seems bizarre to me how encouraging divers to drive within the speed limit could ever be considered a crime anyway


How about prosecuting someone for persuading a friend from driving home after having a drink or two?
Driving Ban - Long or short - Armitage Shanks {p}
A legal or experienced opinion would be welcome. A relative, age 65, has managed to get 9 speeding points in 2 years and has been flashed again (47 in a 30!). They intend to plead guilty by post and enter a plea in mitigaton. An earlier question I posed about this scenario suggested that a court could apply a short ban (8 weeks was mentioned) and leave him on 9 points ie still sweating. Although I doubt it is considered appropriate for this offence, the area does use the option of a remedial training course as well. I would like to know how one could incline the court towards the short sharp ban and leave 9 points running scenario without being represented at the hearing or isn' this something one can even ask them to consider?
Driving Ban - Long or short - Dwight Van Driver
Firstly I am of the opinion that a plea by post, where disqualification is concerned, is most likely to be adjourned until such time as the bench have the defendant before them.
I also understand that PU does not have the same opinion. To accept such a postal plea could mean that a person is disqualified at Court and until such time as that is brought to his notice, he could well continue driving and be committing the offence.

The case Jones v Chief Constable of West Mercia Police Authority [2000] brought in the need for Magistrates under the above circumstance outlined by AS, that they should first consider a discretionary disqualification under section 34(2) RT Offenders Act 1988, which could be imposed for the single offence of speeding and thus a low ban before moving on to consider dealing, under Section 35 RTOA 88, with the 'Totting' disqualification.

Advocacy to sway the Bench would be needed towards the shorter ban will be required with the 'preventive' element for the future in the points remaining on the Licence, whereas under 'Totting' at the end of the ban there will be no points to be considered being wiped off by the ban.

dvd
Driving Ban - Long or short - Statistical outlier
I'm baffled.

47 in a 30, how should he not be banned??? Also, didn't you say in a previous post that he hadn't told his insurers about his 9 points? So actually that's 47 in a 30 zone without insurance.

I'm tempted, in the absence of any other information, to hope for the longest ban possible - worst kind of speeding.

Saying that, speeding in town is my pet hate, so I'm maybe not reasonable. I'd have a ban for the 1st offence if it was up to me. That and raising the motorway limit to at least 85 would make the UK roads a better place. And getting rid of 80% of cameras / reintroducing real police / banning petty tax (sorry, parking) attendants and introducing stickers for insurance and MOT. Maybe.

Sorry, rant over.
Driving Ban - Long or short - Armitage Shanks {p}
GM Thank you for your perfectly appropriate comments. I am pig in the middle here; the only thing I can say about the speeding, without condoning it in any way, is that it was in a rural 30 not an urban 30, but still a limit nonetheless. The relative may not have know about the need to inform insurer re points but they do now. I am entirely with you re the contents of your last paragraph.
Irish Speed Demons - Adam {P}
I was driving up from Cheshire last night on the M6 and happened upon a newish looking lorry with ROI plates on.

He was going quicker than 70 put it that way. I take it they don't have limiters?
Irish Speed Demons - stevied
Ah Adam.. welcome to my world! I have even posted a thread about this today, albeit Portugese lorries this time!

I regularly drive to Wolverhampton on the A41. It's like the film "Duel" nearly every time. And yes, the Irish are the worst. WHY ARE THEY ALLOWED TO GET AWAY WITH IT? Arrogant idiots.

I have complained to an Irish lorry company, but no response. Am now involving the Police. Don't know why I bother....
Irish Speed Demons - Adam {P}
I thought all trucks were limited to it's news to me!

It was weird - I was gaining on it but not as quick as usual. So I accelerated even more, and was still not overtaking it especially quick!

Duel! What a cracking film. I used to love that as a kid. According to Mum, sometimes I'd watch it twice a day!

I stopped when I realised I wanted a bright orange Plymouth.
Irish Speed Demons - stevied
If you watch how the Plymouth handles, you'd probably rather have the truck! Put it this way, the car should have been called Weaver as well....

I am unsurprised by the odd maverick speed demon, but they all seem to be doing it. No doubt no-one will do anything about it until someone is killed, as ever.

I am too young to be this cynical. : (
Irish Speed Demons - Altea Ego
NOt Just Lorries. Most National Express coaches seem to be able to cruise at 75mph.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Irish Speed Demons - SjB {P}
This is what I posted before:
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=31...5

What I didn't say was that he continued at this sort of lick through the (40 limit I recall) roadworks that existed at the time.
Irish Speed Demons - Citroënian {P}
Wonder if SPECS is smart enough to be able to recognise a reg on a vehicle and determine its type and therefore its speed limit.

It should do.
Lee -- You don\'t sell the steak, you sell the sizzle
Irish Speed Demons - David Horn
Coaches are allowed to do 70mph on the motorway, so assuming your speedo reads a bit high, 75mph sounds about right.

Insanely powerful engines in some of those coaches, remember being in one when the driver pulled out of the services just before a steep hill - he put his foot down and this enormous coach went like stink. We were overtaking cars by the time we were half way up.
Irish Speed Demons - Altea Ego
Coaches are allowed to do 70mph on the motorway,


Are they? I thought they were limited to 65mph.

Ah well take it all back then
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Value of Human Life in Motoring Terms - Nsar
While trying to answer my own IHAQ, I came across the attached which places a finacial value on human lfe in terms of motoring speed reduction measures so thought it worth a thread of its own.

I offer no comment, just the link!
www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2002/10/09/news...l
Value of Human Life in Motoring Terms - v0n
The average speed of the drivers on these roads went up by 2.5 mph. (...) According to the study, the increase translated into a 35-percent rise in the fatality rate.

I'm sorry to say but that's 19 years of research down the drain. One look and you the 35% figure is just made up.
--------------------
[Nissan 2.2 dCi are NOT Renault engines. Grrr...]
Value of Human Life in Motoring Terms - TheOilBurner
Yeah - if that 35% figure were true than we could reduce our speed limits 10mph and have practically no accidents at all.

That is clearly not the case...

Lies, damn lies and statistics.
Value of Human Life in Motoring Terms - nortones2
Obviously, as traffic speed declines the death rate from accidents approaches zero asymptotically:)
Value of Human Life in Motoring Terms - cheddar
On the other hand if the average speed doubled there would be half the number of vehicles on the road at any one time.
Value of Human Life in Motoring Terms - cheddar
Sorry, the point being that traffic density is also a factor in accident rates. Speeds down density up, speeds up density down, difficult to have it both ways.
Speed Bumps - netlang
I am getting really fed up with speed bumps being installed everywhere. Last night I was traveling along a road where some new bumps were being installed and the warning of the new installation was a yellow painted slow in a sort of paint brush handwriting! I hit the bumps and 30 and thought I was a gonner! Why don't we all get together and do something like blow our horns everytime we go over a bump? This would cause an annoyance and maybe people would complain and it would be some way to rid of these stupid useless obstacles.
Speed Bumps - Xileno {P}
Because it's against the law.
The only way to get rid of these wretched things is for people to complain about any damage to their cars. Hopefully one day someone will successfully sue a council for damage.
Speed Bumps - netlang
I understand it is against the law but so is talking on a mobile whilst driving and parking on yellow lines but it would seem this is a growth area (especially where I live) and the Police seem incapable of enforcing the law. I had to insist a policeman move his car that was parked across a pavement whilst he was queing for his fish and chips! I refused to push my daughters buggy in the road to get past his vehicle. (He did move it and apoligised to me).

Do you think these pen pushers who make these decisions are actually experienced motorists? I fear not or they would certainly ensure that if it is a 30 limit you can drive over the bump at 30 without any danger of damaging or injuring anyone. If I ever damage my car going over these dreadful obstales I will definately try and sue the autority concerned
Speed Bumps - Hamsafar
If the humps didn't conform, they were illegal obstructions of the highway. Write to the council and cc to the Police stating that you believe they were illegal obstructions of the highway.


I cannot condone any BR member suggesting filing of fraudulent claims on this site. It is dishonest, deceitful and above all, make it more difficult for honest motorists to approch councils and insurers over such issues.

If you cannot be honest and above board in your dealings with your local council then don't expect us to trust you here in the BR!

Hugo - BR Moderator
Speed Bumps - artful dodger {P}
Consider this scene.

A car is driving within the speed limit over a speed hump and this causes the steering rod to break. This in turn causes the car to mount the pavement. Unfortunately there were some pedestrians in the path of the car and one died. I feel sure an insurance company would consider the speed hump to have caused the accident, therefore the constructor and road authority would be liable for all damages.

I can see this test case coming before the courts in the near future. The end result will make councils take a risk assessment of speed humps. They will no doubt decide they are dangerous and damaging and should be removed and a different method used to control speed.


--
Roger
I read frequently, but only post when I have something useful to say.
Speed Bumps - Xileno {P}
You (or the insurance company) would still need to prove that the bump caused the steering to break. It may have been on its last legs anyway. The bump was the straw that broke the camel's back.
Speed Bumps - Andrew-T
"Do you think these pen pushers who make these decisions are actually experienced motorists?"

I cannot imagine there are many working people now who can manage not to be (at least) motorists.

"if it is a 30 limit you can drive over the bump at 30 without any danger of damaging or injuring anyone"

You are assuming that it should be feasible (never mind legal) to drive at 30 anywhere inside a 30 zone. This is not always the case, and the bumps are intended to slow cars to 20 or less. If you drive without enough attention to judge the severity of the bump, your fault. I probably dislike bumps as much as you - they are almost as illogical as clamping an illegally parked car - but have you any better suggestions for slowing drivers who won't slow voluntarily?
Speed Bumps - netlang
What I find really interesting is that outside my daughters school the speed limit it 40mph (so the powers to be think this is acceptable outside a school where I would have thought 20mph would be more suitable especially as a few pupils have been involved in accidents with vehicles albeit thank goodness only minor), yet on a road where there is is no school, around 4 shops, an army barracks and just a few house these ghaslty bumps are installed.

I was speaking with one person who has bumps outside his home and each time a bus or lorry travels over it his whole house shakes. Imagine being ill in an ambulance having to be rushed to hospital it must be like riding on the back of a kangaroo

I suppose one answer is to change the car for a large SUV or maybe a bicycle to tackle these obstacles. I am all for slowing the cars down where necessary (don't they use safety cameras for this purpose?) I have no problem with cameras if they are necessary but these bumps are IMHO anti-social and dangerous.
Speed Bumps - BMDUBYA
OK, we all agree that speed humps are a nightmare, so if your car's suspension or other component fails and the garage suggest that it is caused my speed humps, can you claim the repair bill from the local council? If so hwo do you go about it?
Speed Bumps - doctorchris
Actually full width speed bumps are just as hard to negotiate on a bicycle and using the flat bit at the side is a no no as it is usually full of broken bottles, rubbish etc.
Speed Bumps - Roger Jones
The problem is that you are going to have the devil's own job proving that your car has been damaged by speed humps, and I have little doubt that government lawyers know that only too well. Even if an independent expert were to state that the damage is consistent with repeated encounters with speed humps (and I doubt that anything more specific could be said), the defending authority would claim that no damage would have occurred had the humps been crossed at a lower speed and that, in any case, it could have been caused by something else entirely. That's the swamp we're in.

The only hope is to pin down the people you vote for, insist that they declare their position on these and other infernal and stupid traffic-management measures, and don't give them your vote. Alternatively, petitions might help too.
Speed Bumps - apm
There are, as ever, two sides to this. I hate speed ramps, bumps and cushions with a passion- they are certainly not healthy for an older car (bone-jarring is the only way I can describe my MG's progress over them), and have undoubtedly caused the unecessary deaths of some people who have to be crawled rather than rushed into hospital. They are a scourge, and encourage people to buy SUVs too.
On the other hand, I witness, if not daily then regularly, idiots tearing up my road at 40-50mph. It's a residential street with houses and flats all along (so, kids, cats etc all around). It also happens to be a bit of a short cut- hence the problem.
Maybe we (as the 'driving public' are responsible for bringing this on ourselves? If we didn't break limits and run people over, then there would be no need of traffic calming. Of course, this doesn't alter the fact that overzealous authorities are pebbledashing the roads with bumps where they really aren't required! There's one road, half in Bromley, half in Lewisham- the Bromley half has no ramps. Lewisham half- no less than 3 different sorts!
How can we encourage LAs to be more selective and responsible?

Answers on a postcard.

Alex.

--
Dr Alex Mears
MG BGT 1971
If you are in a hole stop digging...unless
you are a miner.
Speed Bumps - Lud
How can we encourage LAs to be more selective and responsible?
Answers on a postcard.
Alex.


By complaining bitterly, with threats to vote green or monster raving loony (but not fascist because the papers like it too much and try to ramp up the fascist vote in council elections), whenever you get a chance.
Speed Bumps - Ian G
Totally agree with APM.

I dislike speed humps as much as anyone, but as with speed cameras, they are there because drivers as a collective refuse to use their vehicles responsibly.

The day the powers that be (who have a duty to ensure safety of all road users, not just drivers) can trust drivers to adopt a sensible speed, will be the day they are removed.

Just read the post on here "why are we such bad drivers?" and you can see how unlikely that day will be.

Depressing but true.

Ian
Speed Bumps - Ian G
So negativity aside, how do we rid the UK of humps:

1- remove the need for them (not likely)
2- make another solution more attractive to Local Authoritys/ transport agencies.

This could be better road planning, like London Borough of Brent who are scrapping speed humps, or await some sort of better technical solution.

Tricky one though. I wish HJ luck in his C.A.S.H

Speed Bumps - Lud
What on earth makes you think that when drivers are good, the authorities will be rational?

Drivers can be good till they're blue in the face, and the authorities will still be, well, er, the authorities, carpier than they ought to be by a very long chalk.
Speed Bumps - teabelly
Actually it is the other way round. If you treat the driving population like temperamental toddlers then they behave like it. Try treating them like responsible adults, able to choose a safe and sensible way to drive. Reward those that do. Then you can go after all the uninsured and drugged up menaces who are probably the ones responsible for 90% of accidents. It is the continual treatment of the vast majority of safe and responsible drivers like cretins which is the problem. There are a select bunch which don't care and never will. These aren't the car enthusiasts or the driving enthusiasts - these are the greenies in sandles and mums in 4x4s/mpvs that don't give a rats about how they drive as they don't really like it and the car is like a washing machine not something to be looked after.

The only caveat to this is that children would have to be banned from cars as they're a bigger distraction to a parent than any mobile phone or satnav.....
teabelly
New National Speed Limit - mss1tw
I seem to have missed the flyers, posters, e-mails, door to door calls, etc notifying me of this, but as other drivers seem to rigidly adhere to the new rules, I thought I should broadcast them.

Signs with a black stripe on a white background - 40mph.
60 in a red circle - 40mph.
50 in a red circle - 40mph.
30 in a red circle - 40mph.

Sarcasm aside, what the hell is wrong with drivers nowadays?

It's embarrassing more than anything; modern cars being phenomenally capable compared to those of yesteryear, yet people seem to think the speed of light lies at 41mph.

There's a lovely NSL road near me (Chertsey to Egham, for those around here). Even a few years ago I normally used to be able to reach the limit - now, unless it's late at night, without fall, there is always some complete pfd bimbling along at 40, irrelevant of weather, traffic, time of day, etc.

Grrrrrrr...
New National Speed Limit - netlang
You are so right, I too know this piece of road and regularly experience exactly the same frustration.
New National Speed Limit - runboy
Yes, agree it happens more (or appears to happen more). It angers me that someone will tootle along at 40mph in a 60mph limit and make no assistance to allow the queue behind to pass, yet they will pull away from you when you hit the 30 and 20mph zones. So having saved no ones lives driving past fields, they knock over and kill some kid whilst doing 40 in a 20.
New National Speed Limit - PhilW
"I too know this piece of road and regularly experience exactly the same frustration."

Nah, the piece of road referred to is surely the A60 from Loughborough to Nottingham.
--
Phil
New National Speed Limit - PhilW
Sorry, my mistake - its the A47, Leicester to Peterborough, or maybe the A64 York - Scarborough, possibly even the A5 from near Shrewsbury to Holyhead. What puzzles me is how that Rover driver knows exactly where I am going and always ends up in front of me.
--
Phil
New National Speed Limit - Altea Ego
nope

its always the "corby chilled distribution" lorry.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
New National Speed Limit - David Horn
It seems to me that people are so used to having 40 limits everywhere in the cities that they forget that you can actually go up to 60mph on an A-road when it's safe, and because they're instinctively used to cameras nabbing them if they break the limit, they'll stick to it everywhere.

'Course, they might just be inept drivers. :)
New National Speed Limit - Lud
Spain ten days ago: a white van coming the other way on a two-way main road was flashing everyone. I backed off to about the limit, 80 or even 60 ks over a crest past some buildings, and saw two cars that had just overtaken me in the hands of motorcycle cossacks who were writing busily.

Makes a change to mimse past at the legal limit with a smug grin.
New National Speed Limit - Lud
'Course, they might just be inept drivers. :)


What do you mean, 'might'?
I could solve traffic problems :) - stunorthants
Id annoy the hell out of millions of drivers, but I could solve traffic and pollution issues within a week.
Id put speed cameras every 100 metres with a 5 mph allowance, on every major road and urban through road.

Even if you announced this measure, the arrogant speeders would still assume they can get away with it and many would loose their licenses within the week.

Yes it would cause huge economic problems but the green party would love it - imagine how many drivers off the road.

I never speed, infact i generally travel slightly under the limit to be safe and its not an effort :)

It would be a choice, but I reckon enough would get caught to clear the roads, reduce pollution, traffic thus reducing the need for new roads.

Makes me chuckle when i think of the chaos it would cause - still, Mr BMW Driver would be a rare breed!
I could solve traffic problems :) - Altea Ego
You are, of course, as barmy as a box of frogs.
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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
I could solve traffic problems :) - Stuartli
<< You are, of course, as barmy as a box of frogs>>

You are being unusually reticent.
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What\'s for you won\'t pass you by
I could solve traffic problems :) - David Horn
I dunno, I'd be completely happy for lots of speed cameras on the motorway to snap at anything above 90mph. Not because there's anything particularly dangerous in it, but I know that if I tried doing a journey at an indicated 95 I'd be pulled over within 10 miles. ;-)

Oh, and anti-tailgating cameras, and more police on the roads. Motorways can be done through SPECS, then no-one's got an excuse that their car crept over the limit.
I could solve traffic problems :) - Lud
God you must be an incredibly boring driver, and it must take for ever. 'Slightly below the (ludicrously low) limit' indeed!

Pshaw!

or

Tchah!

No offence of course, unless as I suspect richly deserved.
I could solve traffic problems :) - Lud
<< You are, of course, as barmy as a box of
frogs>>


Or perhaps as they say in County clare, as drunk as five little horses.
I could solve traffic problems :) - mk124
Love your idea, I assume one of your bugbears are people who speed!

I would fit every new car with a black box, giving a signal to GPS and storing all the essentail driving stats you would want, Eg speed, direction, use of indicators etc.
May sound like big brother but it would catch hit and runs, stolen cars, insurance disputes ETC. The software could prehapps be used to issue speeding tickets, but enforce variable speed limits, agreed by the comunity you'r passing through.

I can remember someone saying that to maximise the fuel economy of truck drivers you could give them expert training. Unfortunatly that has little effect though. So the trucking company put the equivilant of black boxes in these trucks and fuel economy improved no end. What a surprise! (think I read this on this site???)
I could solve traffic problems :) - mss1tw
Id annoy the hell out of millions of drivers, but I
could solve traffic and pollution issues within a week.


People like you make my motorbike journeys worthwhile. Just stay the hell out of my way when I'm in my car. I stick to the speed limits, which is frustrating enough; if I end up behind, I'll probably reach critical mass.
Speeding in Germany - ziggy
Can anyone tell me if speeding ticket in Germany will mean points on UK license..? 'A friend' of mine got flashed recently.... so I am wondering if a letter will be in the post with a 'Kodak moment'...
Speeding in Germany - Bagpuss
No points, but if "your friend" was driving a german registered rental car then the rental company will receive the fine from the Police and book it from his credit card, including an administration fee.
Speeding in Germany - Aprilia
No points, but if "your friend" was driving a german registered
rental car then the rental company will receive the fine from
the Police and book it from his credit card, including an
administration fee.


This happened to me, but somehow I got away with it.... Anyway, I'm flying back over tomorrow and picking up my Hertz car as usual - maybe there will be a bill waiting for me!

There's lots of speed cameras in Germany, mostly hidden, so I would advise anyone driving over there to stick to the limits. I got caught right at the start of a 50kph limit - literally a few metres beyond the sign.
Speeding in Germany - Bagpuss
I got caught right at the start of a 50kph
limit - literally a few metres beyond the sign.


Yes, here in Germany they don't give you a sporting chance by signposting where the speed cameras are, in fact the way some of them are hidden is downright fiendish. A while ago Autobild magazine featured some of the more imaginitive disguises for the mobile speed traps. They included a wheelie bin, a traffic bollard, a post box and (my favourite) a fake tree, which reminded me of something from Dad's Army.
Speeding in Germany - barchettaman
The sliding scale of fines starts at 15?, and you have to be going substantially over the limit to start accruing points, unless the camera is near a school IIRC. Being flashed over here isn´t an automatic points offence.
I wouldn´t worry unduly.
Speeding in Germany - ziggy
Thanks for all the advise.

I think the problem is that people got used to cameras being well marked in UK, but in Germany they can be *very* sneaky.
And the speed limits can be even more confusing.



Speeding in Germany - barchettaman
Ziggy, I have the fines sliding scale here - tell me how fast you were going, whether it was urban or not, and I can give you an idea what the fine will be - if they catch up with you.
Speeding in Germany - NowWheels
Ireland is also moving towards the use covert cameras: govt report at tinyurl.com/lqpew (PDF file)
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - Steve318
I've just had a NIP through the door saying I was allegedly speeding on the "A1290 Keir Hardie Way"..

Now I was definately driving the car at that time since I was on my way to a hospital appointment, only problem is that I was miles away from the A1290 and can say, hand on heart, I hadn't been on the road all day..

Further investigation into this shows that the road named "Keir Hardie Way" is the road going past the Stadium of Light in Sunderland, and is actually the B1289, some 3 miles away from the A1290.

Now the NIP that they are asking me to sign is just asking me to confirm who was driving the car AT THAT TIME... nothing about how to say "but I wasn't there!". They give a phone number to ring but it just goes to a recorded message basically saying "don't ring again!" (it just actually says that they don't go into disputes on the phone, only by letter).

So I've written a letter pointing out the discrepancy of the road identification as I don't feel comfortable signing a legal document that says I was on the A1290 when I wasn't!

Any idea what sort of response I'm going to get (or will I just get into trouble for not sending the NIP back yet?)
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - local yokel
Are you saying that you drove on the B1289 past the SoL?
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - Steve318
Yeah, I went past the SoL on the way to the hospital but am very surprised that I was speeding cos I always keep my speed down there because of the mobile camera van that is often there...
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - Armitage Shanks {p}
SFAIK the timescale for returning the NIP is stopped while a correspondence is on-going ie you won't get any grief for not returning it within 14 days. I also think that they can correct minor errors on the NIP without prejudice to later proceedings but 3 miles and an A road not a B road and a totally different number is a pretty serious set of faults. Equally they have got you on camera somewhere else you wouldn't have had the NIP! Please keep us posted and good luck!
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - Peter D
Do not request the Photos as if this was a mbile unit it will ID you. Stick to the fact that you did not travel on that road on that day and you where several miles away going to hospital. Post you problem on www.Pepipoo.com and await legally correct procedure for the rest of your fight. They can correct minor errors in your name and address but not mainline stuff. Regards Peter
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - Peter D
I've read your thread again. It sounds like you have pointed out to them that they have the road ID wrong. NO NO in any furhter communication just decalre that you had not travels on the road they detailed any time that day. Do not give them information. Good Luck. Regards Peter
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - Steve318
I've read your thread again. It sounds like you have pointed
out to them that they have the road ID wrong. NO
NO in any furhter communication just decalre that you had not
travels on the road they detailed any time that day. Do
not give them information. Good Luck. Regards Peter


haven't actually posted the letter yet...lol
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - BazzaBear {P}
So what you are saying is that, while they've mis-numbered the road, you actually were on the road in question, at the time in question?
Sounds like a fair cop to me.
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - Pugugly {P}
HAs the road been re-classified ?
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - local yokel
So it's question of which takes precedence - the DoT road number A1290 (incorrect) over Keir Kardie Way, properly B1289. You know you were on KHW, they say you were on KHW, but are also calling it A1290. I'd say it's a fair cop. If the NIP just said A1290 then you could fairly dispute it.
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - Peter D
I would seek advice before sending the letter. Regards Peter
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - Armitage Shanks {p}
Equally, while agreeing with the advice from Peter D, you must either intiate a correspondence (having considered your position and/or taken or advice) or you must return the NIP within 14 days. You can't do nothing IMHO
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - Pugugly {P}
Were you speeding ?
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - Steve318
I find it unlikely that I was speeding down that road past the stadium simple BECAUSE of the fact that I know loads of people who have been done there and so tend to stay under 30 just in case...

anyway... as for my letter, I'm glad I've never sent it off..... just had a brainwave and downloaded the list of A and B roads from the Department for Transport website....

There are TWO distinct A1290 roads... sadly one of which I was on...
The B1289 is no longer listed as a B road but is still on every map!

sigh.... just got to pray for a driver's ed course then...
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - Pugugly {P}
Reason I asked. A road around here is on a Scamera route. It was re-classified a couple of years ago from a B to an A which caused no end of hopeful loopholees.
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - BobbyG
I find it unlikely that I was speeding down that road past the stadium simple BECAUSE of the fact that I know loads of people who have been done there and so tend to stay under 30 just in case...

Steve, don't want to sound harsh, but your above comment would suggest that if you were driving so safe you would have seen the Scamera van?
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - Steve318
Steve, don't want to sound harsh, but your above comment would
suggest that if you were driving so safe you would have
seen the Scamera van?


erm... ok.... that's just a question about my vision though? lol

I'm sure that I will have seen the white van in question.. but I have no recollection of it.. from behind it's just a white van with blacked out windows..

I presume you are suggesting that I was travelling so fast that I never saw the van and therefore never slowed down..
For starters, surely if I could see it, it would have seen me by then?

I have no idea where on the road the van sits normally so I can't really say if it was round the bend, at the bottom of the slope or what... sorry..

I don't drive around always on the look out for every white van partked on the road...lol
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - smokie
Please check the Speeding thread for updates to this thread, for that's where it will be moved to in a while...

smokie, BR Moderator
Speeding NIP but for the wrong road?? - Dwight Van Driver
Bear in mind what PU has said about renaming roads etc. which is very pertinent. Check with LA Traffic managemnt may help. There are one or two roads near here that have a couple of different names for the same stretch official and local.

Also bear in mind they may well have a photo of the vehicle, driver? on that stretch of road they have named and known as such to them.

The NOIP aspect does not require a reply. It is to warn of possible prosecution. With the NOIP will have been a request under Section 172 to name the driver of the vehicle at the time of the alleged offence which has to be completed and returned within 28 days or an offence committed.

If certain they have named the wrong place then try writing back to state that at no time were you on that road with your evidence to prove. Bring in the possibility of a cloned vehicle and leave them to send a photo.

Be careful as to what you state as it appears from your posts it most likely was you.....

dvd
Speeding ticket - Chuckie888
In a momentary lapse I was travelling slightly over 30 MPH in a 30 MPH zone and was caught by a mobile police camera unit. I am obviously rather concerned about this because I noticed it and the police van was parked on the pavement! Do I have a case for appeal?
Speeding ticket - Steve Pearce
Only if you can successfully argue that due to the siting of the van you were forced to speed...which you weren't.
Speeding ticket - Peter D
Have you received a NOIP yey and what speed do they say you where doing. If the raod was faily straight and he had good line of sight then I afraid you have a probelm. Even if you maganged to prosecute the van for obstruction ( unlikely ) you are still nicked. Post on www.Pepipoo.com and see what the experts say. Regards Peter
Speeding ticket - Falkirk Bairn
3 or 4 mths ago I was in the same position, unfamiliar road, dual carriageway, my excuse wasa big lorry on my tail -- waited on the dreaded letter for 3 weeks - nothing appeared - I must have been marginally under their cut off for prosecution.

It was a hard 3 weeks as I am penalty point free after 43 years driving and 3 pts would have been a sore one to take.
Speeding ticket - Altea Ego
How big is slightly

You wont be prosecuted for anything under 33mph (sometimes 35mph)

Assuming your speedo overreads by 10% you can be traveling an an indicated 36mph and be safe (ish)


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TourVanMan TM < Ex RF >
Speeding ticket - Dynamic Dave
At some point later today, this thread will get moved to the current speeding thread.

DD.
Speeding ticket - Chuckie888
NOIP does not state the speed. When I looked at the speedo it read 36MPH. I didn't think anybody was allowed to park on the pavement and thus if this is the case you can't be prosecuted if the Police themselves are in breach.
Speeding ticket - Peter D
36 is just over 35 not just over 30. Carking on the pavement does not invalidate the NOIP. But you can try. Regards Peter
Speeding ticket - LHM
I think that sort of defence would be most unlikely to succeed in this case. It's a bit like the old 'the policeman wasn't wearing his helmet therefore wasn't in uniform' argument.

Just keep your fingers crossed and exercise more care in future.
Speeding ticket - Armitage Shanks {p}
Usual formula for prosecution is if your speed exceeds Posted limit + 10% of limit + 2 mph so 35 in a 30 might let you off but it is only guidance not the law. Chief Constable Brainstorm has his gear set for about 32mph I hear; this why he has caught over 100 of his own officers and his daughter, over the years! Also his force has a 6% clear up rate on burglaries. I bet the residents of North Wales don't think that is a result!
Speeding ticket - Chuckie888
Exactly! It's the waste of resources that is put into this that brasses me off!! A momentary evening lapse, on an empty big wide road, but when your house gets burgled or when my car got stolen they don't really want to know because it's too difficult to resolve and hence won't better the stats. My profession IS Data/stats and let me tell you, human nature ALWAYS finds ways of getting good stats if you depend on them in some way (bonus etc.)!!
Speeding ticket - Adam {P}
Going down the pavement route won't get you very far at all sadly.

Still - you could do worse than sign up to PePiPoo and give them a try.
Speeding ticket - Pugugly {P}
"lso his force has a 6% clear up rate on burglaries. I bet the residents of North Wales don't think that is a result!"

That was Daily Redtop propaganda from last year which was later discredited. Brunstrom's troops are currently in the top ten of all forces, they occasionally appear in the top 3 of all forces on detection rates (that's per BCU not Force i.e. The Force's 3 BCUs regularly feature in the top ten nationally.One of his BCUs is regularly top of all the national BCUs in most crime detecting criteria including all-crime) - these are audited stats not made up ones. It was some redtop that caught his dughter not his Scameras. Ask yourself why that area attracts the lowest insurance rates in England an Wales - I know 'cos I pay insurance on a property there ! I remember from a presentation he gave when he was the ACPO Roads Policing portfolio holder - (he isn't now - another myth) that out of 1600 front line Officers, he had 8 or 10 on Scamera duties. But that would never make happy reading for propagandaists would it ?

I'll probably get booked there next week after all that.

Oh and their Force Policy on speeding is 10% + 1, that was from a conversation with a Traffic Bobby from North Wales last month.
 

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