306 woes - Andrew Petterson
A friend of mine bought a 97R 306 1.4 LX at an auction about 6 weeks ago. The car was an ex-fleet, had done 57,000 miles had a full dealer service history, seemed to have been run by a lady owner. Everything checked out, bodywork perfect, tyres correct etc etc. It ran very sweetly when I helped check it out at the auction. We paid 3,600 for it. It was due for a service, so we took it in to a local independent garage. About 2 weeks after the service, the car started to develop a rumbling/knocking noise whilst pulling off. After much poking around, he bit the bullet and booked it in to the local Peugeot franchise for investigation. After the master tech and workshop foreman had looked at it, they diagnosed probable play in the crankshaft. My question is, what should I do about it. Would an independent specialist rebuild the engine rather than pay £1700 for a new engine, or being handy with the spanners myself, and having a Haynes manual to hand should I have a go myself? Will I need a complete new crank or do you think that replacing the bearing shells will be enough?
Also, do I have any recompense against Peugeot?

Sorry for the long question

Many thanks

Andy
Tap Tap Tap - David Lacey
No! Unless you are confident of being capable of doing this big(ish) task, don't try it yourself.
Entrust the work to a decent garage or engine recondtioner (look for FER Membership) Shop around for quotes (maybe difficult without stripping the unit)

David
Crank at 57,000mls? - David W
Andrew,

I would get a second opinion. Why the change since the service? These engines will go well over 100,000 miles without this sort of problem.

Unless anyone disagrees with me I'm not sure, given the mileage/history, I'd go for a crank problem as a first thought on a pulling away grumble.

Can you tell us any more?

David
Re: Crank at 57,000mls? - alvin booth
Andrew,
I think I would want several opinions before settling on the crankshaft.
I have heard of so many engines being pulled down for a totally wrong reason.
As for the shells being replaced I have done this a few times in the past but it has always proved to be a short term cure and necessitated in a crank regrind later. This was a good time time ago but I seem to remember that the noise used to be on light load and not when pulling away.
The pro-mechanics should be able to advise more accurately and it might be better to let the noise develop more before making a definite diagnosis.
Alvin
Re: Crank at 57,000mls? - steve paterson
Andrew,
DW is right, get a second opinion. If it is a crankshaft noise, the time between you buying and the noise 'appearing' might be consistent with a new set of shells being fitted to a worn crank as part of the PDI. Check for new gaskets, sealer etc. Usually a bad sign on a recently purchased car. My local engineering company won't guarantee a reground crank unless the conrods are checked. If the crank is so badly worn that you can hear it, chances are that the rods and caps are deformed as well. It all leads to a very expensive and time consuming job. Good luck.
Re: 306 woes - John Slaughter
Andrew

I'm a bit bemused by the word 'probable'. Are they talking end float (worn thrust bearings) which can be measured externally, or are they talking main bearing wear (which isn't so easy to confirm without dismantling, although an oil pressure check may help)?

An engine rebuild on a 'probable' diagnosis seems rather risky. Definitely needs a second opinion.

Regards

JS
Re: 306 woes - Mike Jacobs
Engine rebuilds can be risky. Even main dealers have made the most appalling mistakes and that's all it takes- one part or the wrong part fitted, during a rebuild.I'd find out exactly what is wrong first before doing anything.The trouble is you can never be sure if everything has been done properly after a rebuild. Even the wrong pistons have been fitted and things put in upside down!
Regards,
Mike
Re: 306 woes - Andy P
At this age, Peugeot have no obligation at all. Is there a possibility that the car has been clocked?


Andy
Re: 306 woes - Andrew Petterson
Hiya, Thanks for all the response, I'm overwhelmed, however, if you don't mind, a few more questions.
What do you mean by pro mechanics?
If the end float can be checked externally, why didn't the Peugeot dealer check it.
I don't think that the car has been clocked as it has a full dealer set of stamps in the book.
What kind of price would you expect to have to pay to get a crank ground, and (stupid question), if you are only rebuilding the bottom half of the engine, would you have to take the head off and the engine out, or could you suspend it in position?

Again, very many thanks for the replys

Andy
Re: 306 woes - John Slaughter
Andrew

I can answer a couple, sort of.

Check end float - means levering the crank pulley back and forth, using dial gauge to check float (unless it's so bad you don't need the gauge). May need some covers removed for access. Why didn't they check? Heaven knows - costs time and money, easier to 'believe' a problem perhaps, and you pay the big bill.

Full set of stamps in the book. I'm told blank service books are available, but am not saying it happened in this case nor do I have any knowledge of where they are available.

Regrds

JS
Re: 306 woes - Andrew Petterson
hiya,
thanks for the help, the mileage would appear to be genuine as I phoned the dealer who had done the last three services and they quoted the last three mileages correctly.
Why, if it has gone at all, has it gone so early at 57,000 miles???
The garage who performed the last service put a Bosch oil filter in and Duckhams QRX in, would this have influenced matters?
I have to say that it does sound a bit like a crank/big end noise, it only happens when the engine is at moderate revs(1800,2400 territory) and under load eg when pulling away. It is dead easy to replicate, simply hold the car on the handbrake and ease the car forward, although it doesn't seem to be inevidence when the car is just driving along and under load, such as driving up a steep hill. Weird

Cheers

Andy
Re: 306 woes - steve paterson
Andrew,
Flywheel has to come off - engine out job. It's crossed my mind that whoever did the last service might have forgotten to put new oil in. Until a few odd noises reminded them.
Re: 306 woes - David W
Andrew,

You need someone independent who knows this Peugeot/Citroen engine/transmission well to advise you.

I think Steve and I are worrying along the same lines about that last service.

But it still could be something really daft that costs a fiver to repair.

Roughly where are you?

Thing is about pricing up a crank, if it was failing due to excess wear you might find all sorts of other things needed such that you come back to an exchange engine being the best option.

David
Re: 306 woes - Andrew Petterson
Hi guys,
Thanks for the replys.
I'm a student (ughh) studying at Glasgow, which is where my friends car is, however, I'm actually a londoner and if the engine needs rebuilding, the car has to come up to london because thats where all my tools are

Cheers

Andy
Re: 306 woes - Andrew Petterson
We took the car into a halfords/aa garage. (Are these people any good?) and the guy there said he reckoned the noise is coming from the top end, so this weekend i'm going to open up the rocker cover and check for play in the camshaft. Also, he too like diesel reckoned that there might be an oil pressure problem. One point, the oil filter is a Bosch are these any good, also, the garage put Duckhams QRX in apparently, I don't think that stuff is any good, is it worth doing another oil change with a Purflux oil filter and Magnatec/Mobil 1?

Cheers
Re: 306 woes - roland
Andrew,

Graham Harper, 1103 Argyle St (Near the P.C. World at theFinneston turn-off the Clydeside expressway) 0141 248 7322.
He only works on Peugeots and Citroens and has kept mine on the road for the past 3 years since moving to Glasgow.

Roland
Re: 306 woes - Diesel Dave
it sounds like an engine mount has thrown the towel in , causing a Metal on metal vibration to occur at certain circumstances - I would check all these before opening up the patient, also there could be a problem with the oil circulation. 57 000 miles is far too early for serious engine wear unless youre talking about a Ford Fiesta 1100
Re: 306 woes - Andrew Petterson
We took the car into a halfords/aa garage. (Are these people any good?) and the guy there said he reckoned the noise is coming from the top end, so this weekend i'm going to open up the rocker cover and check for play in the camshaft. Also, he too like Diesel, reckoned that there might be an oil pressure problem. One point, the oil filter is a Bosch are these any good, also, the garage put Duckhams QRX in apparently, I don't think that stuff is any good, is it worth doing another oil change with a Purflux oil filter and Magnatec/Mobil 1?

Cheers

Andy
 

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