Bull Bars - John
Radio2 has a phone it starting at midday about bull bars and traffic noise that may be of interest. Hope thats on topic enough?
Re: Bull Bars - Martyn, Back Room moderator
John wrote:
> Radio2 has a phone it starting at midday about bull bars and
> traffic noise that may be of interest. Hope thats on topic
> enough?

I reckon!
Re: Bull Bars - Ian (cape town)
Too late to tune in (via the net)!
Anything of note mentioned?
Re: Bull Bars - andy bairsto
I think bull bars are to be banned from next year or the year after,unless they are pedestrian friendly
Re: Bull Bars - PRM
How do you make bull bars pedestrian friendly?
Re: Bull Bars - Ian (cape town)
I've mentioned before that Bull bars are seemingly inappropriate for UK driving - especially on the Sainsbury run.
But diversifying a bit, there was an amazing story here recently about a new way to stop large animals jumping in front of your vehicle.
I've seen a corolla panelvan which hit a large Kudu (antelope), and it wasn't pretty - these things weigh about a ton and a half - and a normally airborne when you thump them.
It seems the poor beasts are transfixed by the beams, but then, as the vehicle approaches very close, the antelope's shadows moves, which it sees in its periphery, and leaps away from the shadow, normally in front of the vehicle!
(Kudu are a bit dense - if they were human, you'd find them doing 60 in the middle lane of the M1)
But, zoologists have discovered that if the driver leaves his internal light on, for some reason the antelopes WON'T jump into it!
Another tactic which seems to work is the fitting of a high-pitched whistle (like a silent dog whistle) to the radio antenna, which frightens the beasts away.
Next time I'm out in the sticks, I intend to buy one.
By the way, so far, my roadkill total stands at one small deer and a jackal.
Enough of the David Attenborough stuff - I thought I'd share a fascinating story
Re: Bull Bars - Kevin
I can certainly confirm that hitting a Kudu can make one heck of a mess. I hit one late at night while driving between Windhoek and Swakopmund when we lived there.
It was only an adolescent (still with it's mother), but the impact pushed the engine of my Big-Six back by about 3 inches.
Thankfully, we were travelling fast enough to flip the animal over the top of the car rather than the usual outcome which is a pair of very sharp horns coming through the windshield. The cop who came out to help us said that around 100 people per year were killed on that road by Kudu.

The other theory about interior lights is that the Kudu jumps into the darkness _behind_ the vehicles lights. Might be fun trying it with a pickup ;-)

Regards, Kevin...
Re: Pedestrian Friendly Bull Bars - Rod Maxwell
Certain designs of bull bar (I think the plastic type Land Rover use) can offer more pedestrian safety than no bull bars at all.

In an accident it's the pressure applied to the victim's body that causes the damage. This can be reduced by reducing the force applied (soaking up the impact) or increasing the area over which it is applied. Traditional fixed metal bull bars are notoriously bad at doing either.
Re: Bull Bars - Darcy Kitchin
I think bull bars are to be banned as original equipment, but you can still buy them as accessories. What's the point of that?

Has anyone out there got bull bars? What are they for?
Re: Bull Bars - Ian (cape town)
Darcy, here, in certain areas, they are a neccesity (see above) but again I say, what is the point in suburbia
Re: Bull Bars - Andrew Smith
Bull bars on fourbefours are about protecting the vehicle when you slide into something or when you tip over. There is no need for them on the road but they are a perfectly valid addition to an off roader which does have to go off road. (it's a pity these are few and far between). In some environments it is valid and necessary to have every thing from bars and plates protecting the underside to a full external roll cage. (fitted to US spec LR Defenders to get them through crash testing I believe). If I dared to take a 20 thousand pound vehicle off road then I would want as much protection as possible.

No-one would be worrying about this if it wasn't for the fact that most fourbefours are used for the school run.
Re: Bull Bars - markymarkn
Ian - just how did the zoologists conduct their research? Sounds to me like they went through a lot of cars and a lot of Kudus!

I can see the point of bull bars when the cars being used in a proper off road situation, but the school run just seems a bit pointless. Mind, same theory applies to big huge rear spoilers and 'splitters' etc on the front of rude-boy novas. Its all just a trendy fashion thing.
Re: Bull Bars - Marman
Bull bars in GB are totally unnecessary. There are very few examples of hitting a bull on the M25 or the mountain tracks of Lincolnshire or even the school run and why are they only fitted to these 4 x 4 tank-type vehicles they are not fitted to a Ford Focus or a Audi A4 so why are they needed on a 4 x 4 that is never ever used off road. The reason is is that they look menacing and macho, there can be no other reason and it's no good making them pedestrian friendly as they would be of absolutely no use whatsoever as the slightest knock they would crumple. Also these cumbersome over-wide 4 x 4s are a menace anyway especially when they park within 6 inches of your door on Tesco's car park and about 12 kids and mummy get out and slam their hanger doors into the side of your vehicle -- wonderful, especially as there were are at least 15 empty spaces either side of your vehicle when you parked. Just a thought perhaps these 4 x4s could have a built in air bag on the front that could absorb any impact from various animals (and humans) that are foolish enough to stray into the path of these monsters
Re: Bull Bars - prm
Excellent idea Marman, an external air bag. That would work for pedestrians too. But how would it be triggered?

Re: Bull Bars - Darcy Kitchin
Re: Bull Bars - Dave N
Even off-road, the bull bars only get pushed into the bodywork causing more damage than having nothing at all. They're simply not strong enough to stop 2 tons without deflecting.
Re: Bull Bars - Peter M.
Added to which, the bull bars would negate the crumple zone rationale - I think HJ commented some time ago that you stand more chance of being injured in a vehicle fitted with them than without. In any case, in the case of a pedestrian,any kinetic energy has to be absorbed by the available surface area, so a pedestrian hit by a narrow bar is worse off than being hit by an expanse of (slightly flexible)bonnet.
And, yes, I agree with a previous posting, it's 90% macho..
Re: Bull Bars - dan
Bull bar: impact 80% fatality at 12mph or under on impact. No bull bar: 50% fatality at 30mph or under on impact. So a little bird told me... well 5'2".

OK, l'll come clean these stats are well past their sell-by. Can anyone remember the exact figures, they are in this bull-park. (Come on credit for the pun at least).

Re: Bull Bars - Andrew Moorey (Tune-Up Ltd.)
Some 9 years ago I was involved in a head on while driving a Mazda E2200 panel van. The car that hit me was an ultimate driving machine driven by an intoxicated accountant as she tried to overtake a line of cars around a bend, cresting a hill. The front bodywork of my van slid back along the 'chassis' pinning my feet between the seat base and the pedals. The investigating P.C. said that if Id've had a nudge bar fitted then the damage may not have been so great as the bar bolts directly onto the chassis. My replacement van (another E2200) had one fitted!
Re: Bull Bars - KB
Interesting point that you make Andrew. Not many in favour of Bullbars here. Speaking of accidents in panel vans, and the like - every time (well sometimes) when I see the Bedford Rascal type of "minivan", I think how vulnerable the driver looks. There seems to be practically nothing in front of him and it all looks so dinky. Can't imagine where the crumple zone starts and finishes. I did once see a photo taken after a fatal crash, where one drove into the back of a truck. Believe me it wasn't pretty. Most lorries have flat fronts of course, but it's only when a lorry hits something REALLY solid, does the driver come to grief, due, obviously enough to solid constuction and height.
Re: Bull Bars - Ian L
Bull bars, or as they are called in Oz: 'Roo bars' dont have a use in the UK, but in country Oz it is a different story, hitting a large male Roo at 100kph is no fun. OK the roo bar will not prevent panel damage to the front/side/top of the car but it will
prevent radiator/engine damage. With panel damage you can drive 200km to the nearest house, with no radiator it is a long walk!

I dont like bull bars one bit but have to admit after hitting my first roo while working in Oz for 5 years I was very glad of it.

Re: Bull Bars - Brill
Wow Andrew, too close for comfort!
Re: Bull Bars - Peter Mason
Sort of on subject- following a scaffolding firm's flatbed Transit yesterday. The scaffold poles (about 30) were stacked on a framework which lined them up directly behind the driver.
I wondered what would happen if he crashed into the back of another vehicle, or even braked suddenly..

Value my car