£4000 will get you a lovely 60k mile Toyota Camry or Nissan QX. Imagine the joy when it starts in winter, glides alone, and doesn't break down. True you cannot exchange tales with your chums at the Europarts counter, and you will not say, 'How much?' to the BMW parts storeman when he quotes prices at you, but you will have a real life.
LOL!
I bought my QX well over a year ago for about £4700 from the Nissan main dealer. 27k on the clock from one owner and in better shape than many a new car (not a scratch or mark on it, inside or out). Also got 1 year's 'proper' warranty and year's RAC. Still had its orginal tyres, but I swapped them for a set of NCT5's for £250.
I needed a roomy car (three tall offspring to cart about) as a 'stop gap' after my 7-series BMW was wrecked by the incompetent BMW dealer and I was arguing about compensation etc. The QX was cheap enough not to worry about if it turned out to be a dud.
Anyway, over a year and 15k miles later its never missed a beat and I've done a full service (all fluids and filters) for about £70 of parts from dealer, plus a set of NGK Iridium plugs for £30 off Ebay.
I only intended keeping it for 6 months, but now I'm not selling it - ever! Quite as a tomb inside and super-smooth FWD V6 engine and autobox.
I also have a Merc C-class and the handling of the C-class is definitely better, but the QX is my car of choice for a long M-way journey because its so quiet.
Sadly, Nissan no longer import the Maxima/QX (although it is one of their best selling cars elsewhere in the world) - so if/when it expires I'll have to look at a Camry.
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A very interesting reply. I have not actually owned a Camry or QX, but everyone swears by them. In the USA the Camry is a legend. My friend runs them for 15 years. I have an old 1992 Mercedes 230e which has been wonderful. Built by engineers, not the finance department. However, I probably will never buy another as I am constantly shocked by the quality of newer Mercedes. Cheap plastic everywhere. The M class stereo rack is a disgrace, similar to a 1970?s Polski Fiat. Small things like the emergency triangle is plastic not metal. I am also worried about reports of auto gearboxes that can?t be drained, and poor paintwork. Also should one really see threads about E class rusting problems?
All companies exploit their brands but Mercedes have probably taken it too far. It is only a car, and there is something satisfying is backing away from the crowd and buying a comfortable easy reliable car, that has embodied characteristics of its own. With depreciation a serious problem on every car, £4000 for a Camry or QX seems the logical choice in today?s crazy world of brands and image. Money saved equals more Italian holidays?.. now that?s the sensible choice.
Does anyone have experience of running a Camry or QX? What?s wrong with them?
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Well, i am looking for more style.I already have a japaneese..Mitsubishi Charisma R-Plate..can anybody say something about the Audi's...A4, A6...£4K to £5K...no? And how about those old Mercedes, C class, E class that i see on Auto trader. Are they any good. how about Volvo S80..there's one for $4200 from 1999?
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Carisma is about the very last thing this particular Dutch-built Mitsi reveals....
Get a good Audi or Merc at the right price and you will be laughing, but don't expect it to be a true driver's car.
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A very interesting reply. I have not actually owned a Camry or QX, but everyone swears by them. In the USA the Camry is a legend. My friend runs them for 15 years. I have an old 1992 Mercedes 230e which has been wonderful. Built by engineers, not the finance department. However, I probably will never buy another as I am constantly shocked by the quality of newer Mercedes. Cheap plastic everywhere. The M class stereo rack is a disgrace, similar to a 1970?s Polski Fiat. Small things like the emergency triangle is plastic not metal. I am also worried about reports of auto gearboxes that can?t be drained, and poor paintwork. Also should one really see threads about E class rusting problems? All companies exploit their brands but Mercedes have probably taken it too far. It is only a car, and there is something satisfying is backing away from the crowd and buying a comfortable >> easy reliable car, that has embodied characteristics of its own. With depreciation a serious problem on every car, £4000 for a Camry or QX seems the logical choice in today?s crazy world of brands and image. Money saved equals more Italian holidays?.. now that?s the sensible choice. Does anyone have experience of running a Camry or QX? What?s wrong with them?
I know there are three of us QX owners on here. I bought mine in a hurry after my 7-series went kaput. Saw it on Autotrader at Nissan dealer, looked at it and was amazed by the condition so went home and got the cash. I needed something with lots of room (its FWD and *really* roomy in the back and the boot is vast) and I didn't want to pay a silly price for an MPV (plus I've driven loads of lease MPV's - mainly Zafira - and don't really like them).
I've only ever driven a Camry once, and that was a 3.0 V6 hire car in California. It was very nice - v. similar to QX in fact.
The Maxima (QX) is v. v. popular in the US where it sells as a sports saloon (!). The UK QX is actually more like the Infiniti I30 (the upmarket Maxima in the US). They have a very strong reputation for reliability. Most common failings seem to be alternators (on 98/99 models) and coils (about £40 a shot). The most serious problem seems to be on manual transmission versions, which can suffer failed diff output bearings requiring a full gearbox rebuild. Any manual model with a leak from the output flange oil seal should be treated with suspicion. Best stick to autos, which seem to be reliable (its a beefed-up version of the Primera autobox).
The engine itself appears to be pretty much bulletproof (four cam V-6 with chain drive) and the auto transmissions are smooth and strong.
Worst thing about the car is the rear suspension set-up, which is too firm and jiggly below 40mph - Merc. C-class it better in this respect.
Service parts are fairly cheap and some are common with other models (e.g. air and fuel filter is same as on 2.0i Primera). Not too dear - pollen filter was £21; air filter about £10; oil filter £7.50. Set of belts (alt. and p/steering) £12.
Camry has a similar reputation for reliability and I have seen quite a few UK models with amazing mileages (250k plus), often run up by airport taxi companies etc. In fact the Nissan dealer I got my QX from said that when they get one in it often gets bought by a taxi company.
I would buy another QX without any hesitation - in fact I am thinking of getting rid of my C-Class and buying a recent Camry - although they are a bit difficult to find.
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Thanks guys for all the advice. Sorry i'm not taking any..i'm going to check out one E39 for £4500.Will try to haggle to about £4300/£4350...taking my chances..wish me luck! Will come back and tell you all about it...
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I was always under the impression that style and old BMW's were mutually exclusive.
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Nah mate. Right, what you wonna do is lower it on knackered dampers, so it drives like a pig. Yeah, then, spend a fortune on poorly installed tinted windows. Put in "big" sound system (ie one that plays one mid-bass note, about 100Hz), and cruise round schools and shooping precints untill you are a face. Wicked. Yeah man, don't be wack.
Alternatively, buy something that you can actually afford- £4k and E39 dont mix. BMW trade on a name and hype- yes their cars are impressive in some ways, but it all depends what you want to use it for. My dad has an X plate 530D Se with trick suspension, wheels, sat nav, leather etc- but its boring to drive. How often do you drive your large family sized car "on the limit"?
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I did it...1996 P reg, BMW 523i, 99K on the clock, £4250, just like i said..Drove it all the way from Stoke on Trent...not a cough. Brand new tryes, MOT, FBMWSH.
So you guys reckon i will need to spend £4000 in repairs in the next two years? Forgive me for my non technical awareness of BMW cars, but i reckon I wont spend half that figure in that time. i will be here to tell you all about it. Being black i guess i gotta brace myself for being stopped by the police more often now..thanks Y'all..!
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Good luck with the car, sounds like a good price. Make sure you keep up to date changing all the fluids, and keep your fingers crossed.
As with all cars there is a potential for expensive problems, you can minimise these by maintaining the car well, and spotting developing problems early. I think the general point is, whilst you can feel really positive about such a car to start with, your attitude towards it can change completely once a few irratiting problems develop. If you are prepared for a bit of stress and getting your hands dirty it wont be a problem for you. But you would be wise to keep some cash handy, as any serious problem with the engine, clutch or transmission will be expensive. Lets hope you dont have to go there!
A couple of dealer services could cost you a grand. Plus tyres, and other bits, over two years that could be £1500 without any *problems*.
When you get it home check the bushes on the rear anti-roll bar link rods, these often fail, and affect the handling and can cause the rear tyres to wear on the inside. The little arms are *only* about £50 per side i beleive.
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Nothing to do with you colour Lightshade. As a 19 year old lad in a brand new Capri, I could guarantee being pulled over by plod EVERY time i went out. I got pulled three times in 10 miles once.
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Despite what I said, I didn't - and don't - think that you will spend £4k over three years. I really hope you don't, but if you are aware of the possibility and still want it, then there's nothing wrong with this car. Good luck and yes, I am a little bit jealous.
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My only worry about a Camry is the belt. I like chain cams. I think they are 50K mile replacements, with little history of snapping. Is that true? Anyone know the cost of a replacement with pulleys etc?
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If you want to drive a big luxury car, get hold of a nice one in the sub £500 territory. It might suffer a (very expensive) gearbox failure tomorrow, but so might the £5k version... and at least you can feel that you've had good value out of the cheap one!
A quick Autotrader (can we make that a verb, like to Google?) brings up:
1989 BMW 520, 1989, G reg. 131000 miles, taxed, MoT, 5 spd, manual, c/l, s/r, alloys, CD, new battery, body tatty hence. £325. Steve Warwick
1988 BMW 5 SERIES Saloon 525i SE 4dr
ABS, Central locking, Electric sunroof, windows, mirrors. Alloy wheels new tyres. Black, manual MOT & tax. £795.
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I use to be a motoring correspondent and remember the BMW 5 Series Press launch well in the mid-1990s, which was in Spain; in fact a colleague and I drove one of the BeeEmms back to Manchester from Malaga.
Immediate and still valid impression was that it was one of the finest affordable driver's cars ever produced.
Regarding the engines, my verdict was that buying the 528i would bring little benefits over the 523i which, in fact, had the 2.5-litre engine. The two cars' 0-60mph figures only differed by a fraction of a second and the difference in the top speeds was about four mph.
So take the middle road and get a 523i - apart from the probably much lower price, you still enjoy all the wonderful handling and ride benefits of the range.
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Thanks Stuart...you the kind of man i was looking to hear from a few days ago. Anyways..I have already gone ahead and bought a 1996 P reg, BMW 523i SE. I must say it drives like no car i have ever driven before and costed me £4250 which is not too bad. Had i listened to what most of these guys were saying here about the BMW, i probably whould have bought a toyota camry by now.i went with my gut feeling..i hope it wont give me too many problems. As for now i must say i'm very pleased. I plan to take it to the AA or a BMW dealer for a full inspection, see if i need to replace anything in the near future. But right now, i have no complaints.
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If I was ever to swap from my favourite VWs, the booted models of the Golf such as my two Jettas and now a Bora, it would more than likely be to for one of these just ceased production 5 Series...:-)
Enjoy it to the full...:-)))
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Thanks Stuart...you the kind of man i was looking to hear from a few days ago. Anyways..I have already gone ahead and bought a 1996 P reg, BMW 523i SE. I must say it drives like no car i have ever driven before and costed me £4250 which is not too bad. Had i listened to what most of these guys were saying here about the BMW, i probably whould have bought a toyota camry by now.i went with my gut feeling..i hope it wont give me too many problems. As for now i must say i'm very pleased. I plan to take it to the AA or a BMW dealer for a full inspection, see if i need to replace anything in the near future. But right now, i have no complaints.
Good luck with the motor Lightshade, but do be aware of the other side of the coin.
I bought a 96P 528iSE, 104K, full BMW main dealer service history, looked the part, everything checked out OK, superb on the test drive, a full BMW Inpspection 2 (at a cost of £455) revealed no problems.
50 miles later the coolant system dumps all its coolant in the space of 4 miles and the head gasket goes as a result. I'm trying to get the dealer to accept responsibility (on the grounds they cocked up the service) but it's going to be nigh on impossible.
The repair bill? £1500, at least. If the block's warped or cracked, I could literally be looking at thousands.
So yes, they're a lovely luxury driver's car when they're going fine, but when something goes wrong, you'll very quickly get sick of the sight of it.
But I do wish you all the best of luck and many years of happy motoring with yours :)
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I would think any claim, in view of your modest 50 miles afterwards, would be covered by the "full BMW Inspection" if you took it to the small claims court (if you have no joy with the dealer).
By the way, how exactly did you know the coolant was dumped in the space of four miles - surely you spotted the temperature guage climbing?
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I would think any claim, in view of your modest 50 miles afterwards, would be covered by the "full BMW Inspection" if you took it to the small claims court (if you have no joy with the dealer). By the way, how exactly did you know the coolant was dumped in the space of four miles - surely you spotted the temperature guage climbing?
I checked the coolant before we set off, and the level was fine.
Four miles later the car's lost almost all its coolant (the onboard computer flashed up "CHECK COOLANT LEVEL" so I pulled up) and the head gasket's gone.
The temp guage was bang in the middle, hadn't climbed upwards at all.
I may have to think about pursuing the dealer through the small claims court if they won't play nice, but then again, the expenses and costs if I lose wouldn't be welcome.
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It's extremely hard to tell if you have a case, and it's possible that the IoM legal system is different from ours in this respect, but the point of the England and Wales Small Claims Court is that expenses are not recoverable from the other side, thereby keeping them to a minimum.
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I took a company to the small claims court about a year ago over a sum that totalled little more than £50.
The company's solicitors (an obviously expensive to instruct central London based firm) tried every trick in the book to get me to withdraw the case, claiming I would face thousands of pounds in costs if I lost.
I ignored this "advice", the defendents didn't turn up, the case was heard fairly and sympathetically by the judge and I was awarded the sum claimed, plus my costs.
Meanwhile the company involved had to pay out for expensive legal representation and all over a piffling amount of money.
Brought a smile to my face, especially when I learned later that the same company was also involved in a High Court action against it brought by Ordnance Survey...:-)
The small claims court - as a journalist I used to cover the original County Court cases - has always tended to play fair with the small man and ensure that any wrongs suffered are put to rights.
Even tenants of rented properties who had failed to pay the rent for several months and thus facing eviction were always allowed at least two months by the judge to find somewhere else to live.
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Four miles later the car's lost almost all its coolant
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captain alex:
1. where did all the coolant leak from?
2. was the coolant changed as part of the service?
3. was it a bodged job?
4. or did some part fail which the garage had not touched at all?
example of a case where you may have been better off not to have had the service done? (i.e. don't fix it if ain't broke).
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captain alex: 1. where did all the coolant leak from? 2. was the coolant changed as part of the service? 3. was it a bodged job? 4. or did some part fail which the garage had not touched at all? example of a case where you may have been better off not to have had the service done? (i.e. don't fix it if ain't broke).
Don't know where the coolant has leaked from, impossible to see (no line of sight from the top, big stupid guard thing underneath the engine preventing looking from the bottom).
The coolant was changed as part of the Inspection 2 service and the system was checked for leaks (apparently they pressure test it) - bodged job, who can say?
The car's going back to the dealer on Wednesday and I'm going to be with the mechanic as he finds where the leak is, but realistically, I don't think I'm going to be able to pin anything on them.
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"(i.e. don't fix it if ain't broke)."
Normally I would agree with this, but if a particular car has a well documented weakness then I am all for fixing what "ain't" broke...yet.
Just this past friday I changed a perfectly functional waterpump on my 520i simply because I know it is a weakpoint. Sure enough, when I removed the original waterpump I saw 3 significant cracks on the plastic impeller hub. These have been known to break up in the past and while mine could have lasted another 100,000 miles, it could have also gone in the next 10.
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"(i.e. don't fix it if ain't broke)."
>>Normally I would agree with this, but if a particular car has a well documented weakness then I am all for fixing what "ain't" broke...yet.
trancer:
agreed, and would add that i always prefer to have jobs done either by myself or where i can be confident/trust that the mechanic is a perfectionist.
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Captain Alex Zippy O' Toole- Thanks for the advice man..and I'm sorry to hear about your car woes. Hope u can get thru it like a man. How much did you pay for your E39, and did you get a warranty from your dealer. I have already done more than 50 miles with mine since i drove it all the way from Stoke on Trent to London. I'm going to Edinbrugh at the weekend. Will tell you how it goes when i get back...:)
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Camry or QX - obviously none of you are keen drivers.....
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Camry or QX - obviously none of you are keen drivers.....
On the contrary, I'm a keen driver and in addition to the QX own an MB C-Class, have owned Alfas, BMW's etc. etc. I am also in the fortunate position of working in the motor industry and having the opportunity to drive all manner of prestige cars as part of my job. I was in Germany last week doing engineering consultancy for a 'well know prestige car manufacturer'. I had one of their highline models as a loan car - very nice too....
However, its horses for courses and for the majority of family folk (especially in England, where it is now rather difficult to drive a car 'enthusiastically' on public roads) a Japanese saloon is the best bet. Reliable, cheap to run, and actually not that bad to drive. Big Japanese cars are tremedous bargains.
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