lost £1000 deposit !!! - tiredeyes
Hi All.
need some advice please.
went to a large audi dealership, saw a car i fell in love with.
put a £1000 deposit down. 1 day later, deceided not to have the car. and let them know straight away. they now want to keep the deposit!
is this right. the car was not advertised any where, it was just at the dealer.
please help, i cannot afford to lose £1000.
thanks
lost £1000 deposit !!! - BazzaBear {P}
Sorry mate, although I sympathise with you, legally you haven't a leg to stand on. What did you think a deposit was? It has no value unless they can keep it if you back out.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - No Do$h
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=13171

If you use the forum search on the top right of your screen you are likely to find other threads on the subject. In a nutshell, they have your money and you broke the contract. Not a lot you can do about it so I suggest you reconsider your decision not to have the car and either go for it, see if you can switch the order to another car or put it down to experience.

No Dosh
mailto:Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
lost £1000 deposit !!! - Motorwayman
It's like when you sell your car pricvately and take a few hundred in deposit on a set number of days. If the buyer opts out without good reason (EG, you've trashed the car in the mean time) they lose the deposit. Works both ways.

However, appears to be a tad harsh for a main dealer to do this unless you have history with them..

I have a solution for you - buy the car, or NEGOTIATE a partial return of your money - anything you get back is a bonus!!

Let me know how you get on.

Good luck!!
lost £1000 deposit !!! - frostbite
On the other side of the coin......

A couple of years ago, I agreed a p/x deal with a local trader and left a deposit with the agreement that he would carry out some work on my purchase, which I would collect a week later.

Went back and he said he couldn't carry out the work as it was too expensive and the deal was off - here's your deposit back matey.

Contacted Trading Standards and they said "take the deposit back, nothing we can do".
lost £1000 deposit !!! - Mark (RLBS)
What did you think the deposit was for ?

I don't think it was harsh of them at all. Exactly according to the book.

If the situation was reversed you'd have had something to say about it.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - tiredeyes
well, i had a car that i was px\'ing
they told me it was an import.
its a puma, found out from ford, its from germany.
we only bought it 2 months ago. but that dealer is washing his hands of the puma, saying \" i didnt know.there isnt anything i can do about it!\"
so now i have lost £2500 on the puma.
w reg 2000 bought for £8500
audi want to give me £6000 for it !
they found this out after i gave deposit.
so i have lost £3500 in 2 months upset.

As you are new to the forum I\'ve editted your post but in future, please refer to our guidance on swearing. No Dosh.


lost £1000 deposit !!! - Dude - {P}
Its a hard lesson to learn, but I was always taught that when you are considering a major purchase, never make a decision straight away, but go to bed and sleep on it.
If you wake up and have any doubts whatsoever, then walk away from the deal and forget it.
lost £1000 deposit !!! & wot car next ? - tiredeyes
sorry 4 saying a rude word !
yes i wish i had slept onit
!
what is the best car or largeish 4X4 to use for 1000 miles a week on motorway
i get 14p a mile 4 diesel.
so anything over 30mpg would be good
what cars do you all reakon?
i am looking at
new new bmw 525d touring - del in 5 weeks
audi a4 1.9tdi quattro se - del in 8 weeks
toyota land cruiser 3.0 d 3or 5 door - del in 12 weeks

lost £1000 deposit !!! - Motorwayman
well, i had a car that i was px\'ing
they told me it was an import.
its a puma, found out from ford, its from germany.
we only bought it 2 months ago. but that dealer is
washing his hands of the puma, saying \" i didnt know.there
isnt anything i can do about it!\"
so now i have lost £2500 on the puma.
w reg 2000 bought for £8500
audi want to give me £6000 for it !
they found this out after i gave deposit.
so i have lost £3500 in 2 months
LOL, im a little upset.



Why not keep the car and get your moneys worth out of it/ Looks foolish to me to carry such a large loss within 2 mths!!
lost £1000 deposit !!! - Pugugly {P}
Was the Puma from a Ford Dealer ?
lost £1000 deposit !!! - DavidHM
Sorry to join in the mud slinging, but £6k even seems like a fairly reasonable p/x offer - although that's meaningless if the proposed replacement car is overpriced.

You may be able to negotiate a rebate on the grounds that they may be able to sell the car for close to what you had agreed to pay, but I wouldn't bet on it.

It's harsh but the dealer doesn't simply want to see your money but be able to retain it if you back out.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - No Do$h
Well you wouldn't expect to get back the retail value of the Puma, surely?

What did the dealer value the p/ex at initially? Surely this figure is on the order form you signed when you gave the deposit? If they have applied an artificial reduction in value (let's face it, the car isn't worth less if it's to UK spec with appropriate warranty) then they are in breach of contract, leading to you withdrawing from the deal.

Can you post full details in chronological order (try and keep to facts rather then opinions) and you are likely to get some more concrete advice. It may even be to your liking :o)

No Dosh
mailto:Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
lost £1000 deposit !!! - Dave E
Surely you must have agreed how much you were going to get for your px before you handed over the deposit? If the dealer has then reduced how much was "agreed" for your Puma, then wouldn't they be in breach of the agreement?
lost £1000 deposit !!! - tiredeyes
tuesday
saw car (audi cab)
test drove it.
did deal
they gave me £6300 for puma
i put down £1000 deposit
wednesday
they phoned me
told me puma is import
told me they would give me £5700 for puma
me not happy
they said they would give me £6000
if i would give £300
so there is £6300
i never said yes or no.
said give me some time
thursday
didnt want to do deal
rang them and told them so.
they said "we have your £1000" and you not having it back!"
end of story.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - Nortones2
They are bound by caveat emptor too: they changed the terms first. They should not make money out of this. Go to Trading Standards/CAB/your existing legal insurance policy if necessary.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - Pugugly {P}
Depends on a lot of things but porbably not if they found out it was an import after the initial offer was made..
lost £1000 deposit !!! - DavidHM
D'you reckon you could get an implied term of the contract for sale that the car is a UK car? Otherwise where's Tired's breach? And if he's in breach, couldn't you equally apply that to the dealer that sold him the car? If the price offered to Tired was reduced then it's the dealer's breach that negatives the contract, surely?
lost £1000 deposit !!! - Pugugly {P}
It all depends - sorry to be so vague, it could be that Audi would argue that a material fact had not been disclosed during the transaction. There are many maybe, ifs and buts in discussing this sort of case in a forum like this. I would like to know how Audi found it was an import, was it something on the V5 perhaps ? If so the seller would be reasonably expected to know about that and disclsoe it before a deal was struck. You have a choice here (given what's been disclosed and not knowing anything about the other side's argument) lose a grand or lose £300.00. I know what I would do.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - No Do$h
So the dealer was prepared to meet you half way... Mind you, I'm not convinced that they would have put your Puma on the forecourt at a discount because it was in import. This whole issue of imports being valued under UK cars makes my blood boil when a second or third owner gets caught up in the deal.

For the sake of £300 you've lost a deposit. Given that an Audi appears on your list of possibles, may I suggest you speak to the dealer in question and see if they will transfer the deposit to the quattro?

If you can proceed on this basis I would then consider approaching the supplier of the Puma through the small claims court on the grounds of failure to disclose a material fact. This assumes you paid what can be described as "retail" money for the Puma. If you got it at a discount on retail, it's time to forget that train of thought.

PU and DavidHM both have a legal background, so any suggestions they offer should be taken seriously, although they will be the first to point out that they aren't in a position to be giving formal legal advice!
lost £1000 deposit !!! - Nortones2
Assuming good faith on the part of the seller, how is the man in the street expected to know? Its a fleecing job by the trade to pretend that "imports" are intrinsically worth less than the rhd Pumas imported from Germany through the UK dealer chain. If the garage couldn't tell when they looked at the Puma, that's their problem. They've welched on the deal only when they thought they had a bargaining counter - breach of contract. Thats what I would argue.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - Sooty Tailpipes
You only get a 7 day cooling off period with 'distance' transactions, ie mail order, internet sites etc.. and 24 hour if the deal was done in your own home.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - tiredeyes
i brought the puma from the car lot in netherton
i bought it as a UK car.
i did not ask the question, i assumed it was Uk as it was at £8500 for a 2000 w reg car with 3 previous owners and 16K miles.
fsh.
when i rang neil, i asked him if he knew it was an import.
he said he didnt know it was import
he said "how do u know?"
i replied " audi says that the hpi check dosent show its a puma, which shows (99%) of the time its an import"
i looked on my V5 and guess wot, no model, ie:should say puma
so i rang ford in stourbridge and asked them to find out where it was made. they told me.... germany. i was gutted.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - DavidHM
Where it was made or where it was first registered? This may not matter but I'd expect a Puma to be made in Germany, I wouldn't necessarily expect it to be first registered/sold there however.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - machika
Why are imports always considered inferior to UK spec cars? Is the spec. always inferior? If a car is RHD, which market is it made for anyway? If a car is sourced from Germany, why should it be considered to be inferior in some way? Aren't all cars which are manufactured abroad imports by definition?
lost £1000 deposit !!! - tiredeyes
yes very true. how the hell do i find out where it was registered? it has the same as a uk car.
excatly the same. its got lux pack on as well
front heated screen and aircon and metal nobby bits
and it goes like pooh bear off a stick
lost £1000 deposit !!! - DavidHM
How do you find out where it was registered? Ask Ford explicitly from the VIN number, or see if you can find out who the original supplier was.

Oh and if the service history and handbook are in Danish, that should be a clue too (though not always; I rented a Sharan from a UK dealer with its own rental operation on the side that had a Dutch language handbook).
lost £1000 deposit !!! - AdrianM
I think if you take this to a small claims court you will get your money back. Unless they can "prove" that it is reasonable to expect that you knew it was an import & deliberately misled them, then I think they will have difficulty convincing a court that they should keep the deposit. I understand that where there is an area of doubt a court will (usually) find in favour of a private punter over a large company.

.....but, I'm no lawyer so don't take my word for it. Instruct a solicitor or visit CAB. The company I work for provides a helpline where you can get all kinds of help inc free legal advice - perhaps yours has something similar?
lost £1000 deposit !!! - machika
Still trying to find out. Why are imports considered to be inferior? If this car has the same spec, what is the problem? As it is RHD, where was it supposed to be destined for?

lost £1000 deposit !!! - Miller
Four owners in four years? If I was salesman in question perhaps I would be a bit nervous about this Puma's past history?
lost £1000 deposit !!! - tiredeyes
i will visit my CAB
will it cost me, to take to small claims court?
how much do you think?
lost £1000 deposit !!! - DavidHM
Trading Standards may also be interested.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - Pugugly {P}
I would suggest that you need to write up in chronolgical order exactly what happend. Get proper legal advice and proceed from there. Much more debate on here will muddy the water...
lost £1000 deposit !!! - AF
Get proper legal advice and proceed from there.


The best comment so far. A good solicitor will make mincemeat of the Audi dealers thoughts that they can keep the deposit.

The dealer will have to prove their loss due to the breach of contract. Their damages are limited to that loss, not just an arbitary figure that happens to be the value of the deposit.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - RichardW
Doesn't the V5 say whether it's an import or not - eg "Declared new at first registration by sole concessionaire" or something for normal cars, and something different for personal imports (not seen one, so don't know the wording).


--
RichardW

Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
lost £1000 deposit !!! - PR {P}
It used to say Declared new at first registration, previously registered overseas (or something similar!) now if you get back with your import within a certain time it looks just like a UK one.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - paulb {P}
i will visit my CAB
will it cost me, to take to small claims court?
how much do you think?



www.courtservice.gov.uk

Quite helpful, considering it\'s a Government website.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - daveyjp
Another issue is to pay a deposit you are comfortable with, not what they ask for. Audi asked me for £1,000 'because that's policy' - they ended up with £200.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - tiredeyes
yes thats a good idea.
i will be more carefull next time.
i really think £100 is enough, because if other people are interested in a car like an Audi cabriolet.
they would surely ask them for a number they can contact them on. and if the deal falls through, then ring the other people up. Jeeez i was such a fool. I really dont want to deal with Audi again, makes you feel cheap and ok they are out to make money, but i think they make enough, through selling cars, they make over £2000 a car sometimes. just IMHO.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - joe
PU is right to be cautious about giving legal advice over the web, but it is worth remembering that someone at this dealership will have to deal with this claim. If it is sent out to solicitors, the first bit of advice that the dealership will get is that it will cost more in fees to defend the action than the amount at issue(£1,000). The second thing that the lawyer will say is that the district judge is likely to be sympathetic to you, and will be looking at finding a legal answer to the problem that will give you redress.

That solution is pretty obvious. The dealership broke the contract by unilaterally changing the trade in allowance. You are under no legal obligation (as a private seller) to tell them it was an import, even if you did know (which you didn't). In general, there is no obligation to disclose information, merely a duty not to lie. The only other legal analyses are that either there was a mutual mistake (ie that you both thought the car was not an import when in fact it was)or that the contract you made was in fact conditional on the garages checks on your car.

The remedy for mutual mistake in cantract is for the contract to be declared voiud and for the parties to be put back into their original positions (ie your deposit back).

If the contract was conditional, then the condition has not been satisfied and there is therefore no contract. The court will imply a term into the contract that the deposit would be returned to you in these circumstances.

If the garage was in breach of contract, you would have been entitled to hold the dealership to the deal that they had done. You would also have been entitled to call the deal off and ask for your deposit back. Your choice.

Faced with that set of facts, I would be astounded if a district judge did not find in your favour. I would be very surprised if it ever got that far. Of course, we only have your side of the story...

Issuing a small claim is a doddle, just pop along to your local county court. The staff cannot give you legal advice, but will help you fill out the form. There is a small court issue fee to pay, but you add this to your claim and recover it if/when you win. The normal formalities and rules of evidence do not apply and the system is designed to be user friendly. As PU says, if you write down a chronological record of what has happened, and get you documents together (there won't be many) then that is all the preparation you need to do.

A solicitors letter first, threatening this action, and pointing out the contractual position should really obviate the need for this.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - BazzaBear {P}
Having read your further information on this, I'd like to retract my first statement. It seems that they changed their mind forst about the deal, and only when they changed their offer did you back out. I think you are entitled to your deposit being returned.
Good luck!
lost £1000 deposit !!! - tiredeyes
Just rang the MD at audi. he is addament (not adam ant) that i cant have my moneys back. he offered to put the £1000 onto another car, which i didnt want. i offered him £200 for the time wasted, around 3 hours of his sales mans time. he didnt want to know. how much is it, at a local county court for a small claim like this? also, he said he would issue a solicter to recoup money from myself if he wins for something? i didnt understand what he was on about. what happens if i lose?
also, i asked him if he really wanted the publicity if this appeared in the newspaper (local). he said he wasnt bothered.
what shall i do?
where can i find my local small county claim court thingymabob.
thanks for all your help on this.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - Vin {P}
Before you go through the hassle of Small Claims, send them a letter outlining the sequence of events, stating that you believe them to be in breach of contract and that you will, if no payment is received, be taking the matter to the Small Claims Court. Make the letter clear and concise. Stick to the facts and get someone you trust to read it and check it over before you send it. Your local Citizens Advice Bureau (in the phone book) will probably be able to help you.

You really need to do this before taking recourse to the court, because I believe the court expects you to try to get the money back before using the legal route.

If you do end up taking it to Small Claims, he cannot claim costs against you in most cases (i.e. if you have any kind of case at all), so it doesn't matter if he does use a solicitor, as he's just wasting his own cash.

See if you CAN get the local paper interested (call them on a Sunday, as it's a slow news day). Publicity can't harm you.

Hope this helps.

V
lost £1000 deposit !!! - martint123
Be very careful thinking of legal action. With the deposit you entered into a contract with the dealer. Push too hard and they can come back and insist that you pay the balance and buy the car.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - tiredeyes
i emailed him (the MD) this
is this as good as a letter?


Good Morning *****
I would really like for my £1000 Deposit to be refunded to my HSBC Current Account.
I apologise for wasted time that ***** has endured.
I don?t know if you know what has happened, but I will endeavour to tell you.

Tuesday 16th March 2004.
We came into your Branch and saw an Audi Cab registration no: **** ***
We had a test drive for half an hour and fell in love with it.
Left £1000 deposit
I guess you took it off sale at the end of the day at around 3.30pm when we left.

Wednesday 17th March
***** rang me at around 15:30 to let me know
That the Puma (we were Part Exchanging) was maybe an imported car.
We did not know this ( I have rang **** at the *** ***in ******** and explained my unhappiness
As I bought the car for top price as a UK car 2 months ago)
I rang Ford in ***********, and asked them about the Puma, using the VIN Number
And found out it was registered in Germany.
***** told me you could not offer me the full £6300 for the Puma but only £5700
*****said that you were offering £300 so £6000 but we would need another £300
I said I would think about it.

Thursday 18th March
I Rang ***** on his mobile at 8.00 in the Morning
He rang me back at 8.30am (it was his day off)
I told him I did not want the car, I apologised profusely for having wasted his time
and would like my £1000 back.
He said we cant give you £1000 deposit back as its company Policy
So to sum up.
The car was off sale for maybe 11 hours.
2 hours on Tuesday evening and all day Wednesday.
The car is not advertised anywhere and it is not on Audi?s Main website
***** said ?we don?t have to advertise a car like this?

So for the car to be off sale for 11 hours, it has cost me £1000
All I would like is my £1000 back or even a part of it.
Even £800 would be nice.
I think £200 for the wasted 4 hours of ***** time is favourable.


If this needs to be put onto a letter and posted, then i can do it.

lost £1000 deposit !!! - Thommo
IF what you say is true then he is being a complete idiot and throwing out vague unsubstantiated threats to boot.

You had a deal, they wanted to vary the terms of that deal, so the original deal is dead and if you do not wish to accept the amended deal then each party should be put back in the same position as they were before the original deal was struck.

It is a small claim in the county court. Look up your nearest county court in the phone book, go round get the forms, fill them it and file them and then wait for your court date.

Standard stalling tactics are for the other side to ask for numerous postponements as they are 'not ready'. You can object to a postponement but they will usually be granted one or at most two. Other tactics are getting the trial refered to a county court elsewhere, if its a branch in say London they try to get it transfered to say their head office in Aberdeen, again you can object and have it transfered back. They will try anything in fact to make you give up and go away.

Each side represents themselves and court costs can not be awarded against either party even if they lose, so if you are representing yourself, they would likely have to hire a solcitor which would cost more than £1,000 even if they won.

Bottom line is they will settle in full the day before the trial.

In the unlikely event that you get to trial it is very informal and a sort of arbitration. Your best chance is always to have the facts on your side AND to be the most reasonable person in the room, so no more threats about going to the media until after the trial!

IF the events occured as you say do not give this up, have them!
lost £1000 deposit !!! - T Lucas
Wonder if the Sales Dept divi up the lost deposit money or spend it on a big party or maybe take the whole dept on a nice foreign jolly.It always surprises me how often punters leave deposits and then expect them back.In a busy place it can soon add upto quite a few thousand pounds.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - Thommo
T,

I agree that if a deal has been done and a deposit paid then if the buyer backs out then the deposit is and should be lost. But if the seller tries to vary the deal then the seller has the right to say no and demand the deposit back.

But you raise an interesting point. That cash belongs to the business and should be accounted for in the company's books and corporation tax paid on it. Any amounts distributed to the staff either in cash or kind would be wages and income tax and national insurance should be deducted accordingly.

This raises another interesting method of attack.

Tired, get the MD on the phone and ask for the company's accounting policy in respect of cash deposits forefitted. If he gets evasive likely he and his staff's secret policy is not to enter them in the books and trouser the wedge themselves, and this could explain his resistance to giving it back. If he refuses to say tell him you intend to take the matter up with the Inland Revnue in order to seek clarification and to make them aware of this and potentially other instances where this has occured.

That should put the wind up him!
lost £1000 deposit !!! - tiredeyes
martint
how can they make me pay the xtra 27'000.00 and take delivery of the car. when i have said i do not want the car. and it is back up for sale?
surely they would be in the wrong to make me take delivery of car now, after its back up for sale. i dont know who else has driven it?!!!!!!

they didnt even have time to go and buy the tax for it.

is this right?, even if i lose in a small claims court, i will not have to pay anymore money out.
i am sure i will take them 2 small claims court, but i dont want to lose any more money.


lost £1000 deposit !!! - DavidHM
Tiredeyes - they can counterclaim for the full amount, it's true, if they can show that there was a valid contract in place that you breached by pulling out and that they then sold the car at less than you would have paid for it. Even then they can only claim the difference.

They could theoretically seek the equitable remedy of specific performance, meaning that the court would order the whole transaction to go through, but this would only happen if this was the fairest solution in all the circumstances. A solicitor or the CAB will advise on this but my take is that it is entirely at the court's discretion whether this is done or not, the risk of legal costs accruing to the garage is great, and specific performance is usually only used when damages would be an inadequate remedy. Here the garage is really only interested in the money, so it's hard to see how specific performance would be contemplated in the real world.

Oh and Joe, excellent post.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - T Lucas
There was a case a few years ago where a Toyota dealer sued a punter for lost profit on a deal,and won,this could be anything upto £5000 if the Audi is a used car.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - DavidHM
Fair enough, but if they say they lost the profit, they have to show that they made a reasonable effort to get the best price they could for it, not just flogged it to their mate at cost.

Otherwise they haven't mitigated their loss and so aren't entitled to the damages.

If they sell it to the next punter who walks through the showroom doors for exactly the same amount, they've lost nothing.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - tiredeyes
i can go through the small claims court online
it will cost £80
www.moneyclaim.gov.uk
im going to go for it. i am so sick of big companys take take taking all the time

t
how can they sue me.? they can sue me for 11 hours of the car not being for sale. i can not believe the court would really take that seriously
lost £1000 deposit !!! - Thommo
I think T and I may have hit the nail on the head which is that the employees are looking to trouser this cash themselves which is really theft from their firm.

Might be worth a call tomorrow...
lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - tiredeyes
i have just put in a claim through the online jobby.
I really apprici8 all the help that has been given here.
i will let you know how i get on.
if any one else has any ideas, please post them here. i have set it as my homepage.
has any one else ever done this and won?
PLEASE POST HERE AND LET US KNOW THE OUTCOME
cheers peeps
lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - Nortones2
Best of luck, Tired! £1000 is no small matter, esp. if its a con. Tell TS whats happening. It might help others later.
lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - Colin M
Other tactics are getting the trial refered to a county court elsewhere, if its a branch in say London they try to get it transfered to say their head office in Aberdeen, again you can object and have it transfered back.

The defendant can ask for the case to be transferred to their local court but this will only happen if they are a private individual.

Good luck in your case. I recently ended a two year battle with an large estate agent who lied, cheated and denied information to me and still claimed their fee after I transferred the sale of a property to another agent. Sadly I believed the county court judge would be helpful and sympathetic. I didn't use a solicitor in court mainly because legal advice prior to the hearing indicated my case was so clear cut, the estate agent would not turn up or at least lose the case. After two hours the judge made his decision on contract law and I lost nearly £2,000 including the claimants costs, court fees and interest.

Yours sounds clear cut, but don't get complacent until after the hearing!

lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - frostbite
The 'employee benefit scheme' is a possibility but I think that if the deposit was in the form of a cheque made out to the company (do I recall right?) this would take some nifty bookwork which would be picked up by the accountant without much difficulty.

Good luck to you Tired, I think you have decided on the right course.
lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - tiredeyes
i didnt pay by cheque, but by debit card. it is there as we speak on my internet hsbc online ******** audi ---£1000 dr
i am a little frightened "taking" on the big boys.
but is that right if i lose, i could stand to pay all court costs and legal fees more?
i thought i read on here that if i lose, i dont pay anymore moneys out?
i have started the proceedings online tonight.
shall i cancel and ask CAB in the morning first?
lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - tiredeyes
also this is a large audi dealership with 3 branches.
I am so annoyed that they can do this to me.
I dont know whether to just forget it all, and put it down to experiance. but like you say £1000 is a lot of money.
what does Honest John think about this?
could he do a feature in his sunday Mag?
i have emailed him, last week, but had no reply.
lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - No Do$h
I don't think HJ is around at the moment. PU, Joe and DavidHM between them have covered pretty much all the legal angles. Have another read of their replies and take it from there.


No Dosh
mailto:Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - Thommo
Perhaps Colin can verify but sounds like he went to a full court hearing rather than file a small claim.

lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - AdrianM
If everything happened as you describe you will not lose this case. It won't even get to court. Take advice from CAB, by all means, but as already stated it is extremely unlikely that you will have to pay their costs unless the action is brought maliciously - you will know if this is the case or not.

See CAB link.

www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_rights/legal_sys...m
lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - Pugugly {P}
Tiredeyes. You need solid legal advice on this.

"thought i read on here that if i lose, i dont pay anymore moneys out?"

This is the reason I keep saying this, the whole thread has become highly confusing with conflicting advice.

There is a strong possibility, depending on the size of the dealership, that they have a company brief or a brief on a retainer...tread very very carefully.
lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - DavidHM
Before I go to bed, I'm going to back up PU here - see a brief and get formal advice. It won't come out ruinously expensive for half an hour of their time and you don't need the world's flashiest lawyer. Listen to him or her and then make an informed decision about what to do - and don't panic. You seem to want to resolve all of this with a few clicks of a mouse, and it's never going to be that simple.
lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - tiredeyes
just read this in the small claims adviceguide

If you are the claimant and you win your case, you will get the court fees back as well as the claim, and you can ask for certain expenses also. If you lose, you will not get the court fees back. But it is unlikely that you will have to pay any other costs.

and yes i will tread carefully, i will explain what happened, i have the dates and what was said written down.
they changed their mind on the price. i didnt want to pay an extra, as i did not know the puma was an import. and can prove it. as i phoned a large ford dealer up after audi told me.
also i rang the place where i bought the puma from.
and what is a brief on a retainer?
lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - tiredeyes
and no i dont want to solve this
"with a few clicks of a mouse"
would like to solve it with them giving me my hard earned money back. and they can keep £200 for doing what they normally do anyway. ;-P
lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - tiredeyes
im tired and off to bed, to stress whether or not im gona get sum money back. jeez. (mental note: dont put down more than £200 deposit in the future ;-(
thanks for all your advice.
i always thought the customer was right.
obviously not.
£1000 in 11 hours thats £90.91 an hour.
not bad, almost as good as my £45 an hour computer fee's i charge customers.(not really !)
lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - wafer
It is possible that you can have to pay legal expenses for the defendant if your case is seen as totally unreasonable or unjustified in being brought to court. This would normally be if they have offered you some form of compensation but not the full amount.

The arguement you have against this is that if they have lowered the trade in price for your car without pointing out that this was policy for non-UK cars. This would be deemed as them making a material change to the contract.
lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - Colin M
Thommo, my case was a simple county court small claims hearing. The estate agent just surprised me and decided to vigourously defend their corner.

If you lose, you don't have to pay the other sides legal fees, only their "reasonable costs" which is limited less than £100 and any interest (not applicable in this case).

If I was in the OP's position, I would go for a full refund. His heart needs to be in it though, because it isn't without stress to go through the procedure even if it doesn't get to court. By his accepting to offer the dealer £200 at this stage sounds like he's partly resigned to losing out. If it were me, I'd want all my money back and an apology from the dealership!

lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - joe
Chin up tired eyes!

You have a concern that issuing court proceedings might mean that you are hit for more on top of the £1,000.

There are 2 ways this could happen. Firstly, you could lose and the court could decide to waive the normal rule that the winner doesn't get his costs paid. They do this very very rarely, an only in cases where the prosecution is malicious. If the facts as you have related them are true, there is no prospect at all that this will happen.

The second way it might cost you is if the dealership bring a counterclaim. If there actually was a binding contract, then the dealership are entitled to their "loss of bargain". If they got such a good price from you that they cannot sell the car to anyone else for the same money, they can sue you for the difference between the agreed price and the price they eventually achieve. If this difference is more than £1000, they can sue for the extra.

You will have to do your own research on values. Of course, all this is onloy relevant if you lose on the main issue of liability (ie the question of who brokle the contract). On the facts as you have explained them, you should win.

Your email to the dealership was too soft. Why should you be compensating them for their time? Why shouldn't they be compensating you for yours? You should send another email to them withdrawing your offer to settle, and telling them you will serve proceedings in 7 days, without further notice, unless they repay your deposit.

I am sure that you are quite rightly cautious about taking advice over the web, but believe me, I am sure that I am right about this. If it is any comfort to you, I am a litigator (specialising in contracts) and have been doing this for 13 years.
lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - Guru-Meditation
Unbelievable-it really sucks the way companies and, let's face it, people with so much money etc will act like this towards others. Even though it seems based on the facts you are entirely in the right, the Audi dealer turns over how much per year they'll still want to keep your money even though they changed the terms of the deal.

I certainly wouldn't be offering those robbers £200 for their time! Over my dead body! That they wouldn't even accept that offer even though they aren't entitle to sweet fanny adams shows how unreasonable they are.

Either they are just plain nasty in that they understand they are in the wrong but think they can get away with it anyway or they just genuinely don't believe they are in the wrong but how experienced car salesmen can't understand how changing the price offered on a p/x AFTER the deal has been agreed and a deposit laid down etc is beyond me. Surely it is down to the dealer to satisfy themselves that the car they are accepting in p/x at £xx value is worth that value before they agree to buy it at that value, unless they are being mislead but in this case they clearly aren't. What is it they say (I love this one) emptor caveat-true in the case of this dealer.

Get your money back somehow!
lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - JamZ
Make sure you write lots of letters to them, and send them by recorded delivery. Keep copies of *any* documentation/letters.

The thing with the small claims court is, you have to be able to show that you have acted reasonably (i.e. give them plenty of chances to sort it out - set a deadline and stick to it). A person going to court at the drop of a hat is unlikely to get the sympathy of a judge. Also, if they make a reasonable offer, accept it.

~J
lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - tiredeyes
When i spoke to the MD he clearly stated that he wouldnt give me any money back at all. zilch he said.
i said what if i told the local newspaper about this, he said "are you threatening me?"
i said "no, not at all, i just want my money back"
i said "there is no way on this earth that i can do anything to get this money back?"
he said "no, and if you pursue it, i will push for you to have the £27K car. and you will owe me money.
now the car is for sale on the audi website. i dont know who else has driven it, and my guess is that they wont have a problem selling it.

he is such an evil man, and it makes my blood boil, just thinking of it all.
i have done an online small claim against him.
i just hope he sees sense and sends me my money back.

lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - puntoo
When i spoke to the MD he clearly stated that he
wouldnt give me any money back at all. zilch he said.
i said what if i told the local newspaper about this,
he said "are you threatening me?"
i said "no, not at all, i just want my money
back"
i said "there is no way on this earth that i
can do anything to get this money back?"
he said "no, and if you pursue it, i will push
for you to have the £27K car. and you will owe
me money.
now the car is for sale on the audi website. i
dont know who else has driven it, and my guess is
that they wont have a problem selling it.
he is such an evil man, and it makes my blood
boil, just thinking of it all.
i have done an online small claim against him.
i just hope he sees sense and sends me my money
back.


Can the dealership claim that the purchase and part exchange are not part of the same contract if they are signed on seperate peices of paper independent of each other (I assume that there must be a part exchange figure somewhere on the purchase order).

If they form one contract and they then choose to vary that contract (by offering you less) and you dont accept, then surely they can either revert to the origional amount or cancel the contract.

But what they cannot do is vary the contact without your agreement. I do hope that I am correct, otherwise a contract really isn't worth the paper that its written on.

lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - kithmo
Tiredeyes, when you say you spoke to and emailed the MD, was this the MD of that branch or the MD of the company. Are you sure it WAS the MD. If you do a search for "Companies house" on the web, the Companies house web site will give you a list of directors of any registered company, together with their home addresses, for a small fee (about £2.50 I think), so you can write a letter to the MD or company secretary (or all the directors) directly. I found this to be an instant solution when dealing with a well known car supermarket in claiming the cost of a warranty repair that their customer service department had refused to pay me on a technicality. Without sounding too sinister, a case of, "I know where you live and I am going to keep hounding you until I get a result" (without actually stating that in any correspondence of course).
lost £1000 deposit !!! Who Else has ?? - ShereKhan
In my opinion, I think the Audi dealer has done over Tiredeyes good and proper. After reading this thread it got me thinking what would have happened if you had paid the deposit by credit card instead of debit card. I know it won't help tiredeyes now but it may help other BR's who may could get in the same situation as Tiredeyes.

--
306 2.0 SE Cabriolet
lost £1000 deposit !!! - whitevanman
I put a deposit down once for an mg rover and then didn't decide to buy it, they gave my deposit back. My advice: Buy mg rover.
lost £1000 deposit !!! - NowWheels
I put a deposit down once for an mg rover and
then didn't decide to buy it, they gave my deposit back.
My advice: Buy mg rover.


shouldn't the moral of that be slightly different: that if you are not going to buy a car, let it be an MG Rover that you don't buy?
Small Claims Court - Armitage Shanks{P}
Small Claims Court is a doddle! The court staff are helpful, the procedure costs under £100 (in my case) and seems to be helpful to the consumer. As a matter of priciple I chased a chap thru the Court for £80 he owed me; he wriggled and squirmed and delayed, the baliffs went in twice, once to put stickers on his TV and washing machine which were going to be removed on their next visit and the second time he paid up. I got a cheque, from the court, for everything he owed and all my court expenses. I doubt that I spent an hour of my time on the whole thing and it was painless and, as I won, free.
Small Claims Court - T Lucas
Anyone care to think about the odds would be of getting the deposit back?My money says no chance,but then i'm a rubbish gambler.
Small Claims Court - tiredeyes
any other people got tales of going through small claims in court?
Small Claims Court - AF
100%
Small Claims Court - Mattster
Good luck with whatever action you take. You have my complete sympathy. This is a clear case of the big boys ripping off the helpless customer. A deposit should be to guard against potential loss if a contract is broken. There's no way they have lost £1,000 from this, so they are just profiteering. Sounds like they may have broken the contract themselves, anyway.

And their servicing costs are too high.

And their cars are over-priced.

Keep us posted!


Mattster
Boycott shoddy build and reliability.
Small Claims Court - tiredeyes
Thanks Mattster
yes will keep this thread posted. action due to after april 13th
Small Claims Court - Martin Devon
With regard to Audi, a mate who used to do my servicing once described the translation of Vorsprung Durch Technik, as (something (you may guess what)expensive in parts in later life.

Regards as ever. Buy a Mondeo. No cred but what stonking value.
Small Claims Court - NickCUK
A word of warning - if you lose at the small claims court and the other person can show they lost income or incurred costs in attending the hearing - they CAN claim for that ! It isn't written so clearly in anything that comes out of the court service but I went through the small claims court when somebody sold me a fiat exhaust that wouldn;t go on and I relied on the claim that the level of evidence is much lower in the SCC - hence I took a few photos and a receipt from a local dealer showing that they tried to fit the exhaust I supplied but it wasn;t OK - but the judge reckoned the dealer would 'be expected to try it on and sell their own higher priced goods', refused y claim and I had to pay £12 in unsubstantiated petrol costs to some guy who had travelled 30 miles. He got all excited when the judge asked him how much he'd lost in income that day but backed down when he claimed he'd lost upto £120 but couldn;t prove it !

In short - if you lose, you might have to pay something out !
Small Claims Court - VTiredeyes
they have filed for a defence.
i have filled forms in.
date will be set soon.
will keep posted.
Small Claims Court - martint123
Good luck.
Small Claims Court - Armitage Shanks{P}
Just listened to "You & Yours" on radio 4; chap phoned in to say that he had issued Small Claims Court papers against his Local Council and a big removal firm and got suitable settlements from both of them before the matters reached a hearing. I hope this is hoe it work out for you!
Small Claims Court - Blue {P}
I'm afraid I'm far too tired to read all of this.

I sympathise strongly with Tiredeyes, I'm sure you didn't know about the car's history, unfortunately on most order forms there will be a declaration that you sign stating that, amongst other things, the car is not an import. That is what you will have signed, so technically the garage can request an adjustment on the Part Ex price AFAIK, as they valued the car based on the information that you gave.

The way that they have responded to this seems to be disgusting to me though, they don't have a moral justification for keeping your deposit, and I suspect that their legal rights are pretty thin aswell.

I recently sold a car, and unfortunately it became apparent after the deal had been signed and a deposit left, that the customer's car was a previous insurance writeoff. We looked at the report and it was pretty obvious that the customer wouldn't have had an idea about this, we re-valued the car and told the customer that if they paid a small amount extra then we would continue with the deal, despite the fact that we would be losing money on the part exchange. (There isn't much market for Category D Rovers!) The customer chose to pay the extra and get out of the written off car.

One thing though, if you look on the bright side, the price that they are offering you for the Puma is still a very good price, after all, you will always find the part exchange value of a car is lower than the retail price that you pay as someone, somewhere, has to make a profit on re-selling your car.

Blue
Small Claims Court - BobbyG
Blue Oval, take it you are not still a full time student as per your profile if you are now selling cars??? :)
Small Claims Court - Sooty Tailpipes
" any other people got tales of going through small claims in court?



I used the moneyclaims online Tiredeyes. Was daunting, but I won against an ebayer who sold me something which never arrived, If the defendant refutes the whole claim, it will be transferred to the court nearest the defendant in about a months time. Prior to this, you will be asked to send a 'bundle' to the court and the defendant, this will be copies of all documentation you may refer to and a witness statement from yourself and anyone else who was there on your side.
On the day, you go to court with a friend or spouse if you like, and put your case before the judge in a small room, which is more like a meeting room. Note that the proceedings are being tape-recorded and you may ask for a copy at the end from the usher. It's quite informal, be almost bluntly concise and don't waffle on and include information that is not relevant to the claim, don't rely on hearsay or things other people have told you (who aren't there) and suchlike. In my case, the defendant sent a letter and didn't turn up, but they lost not because of that, but because they had been contracted for delivery, not just postage and packaging, and the law says the seller must make sure the contract with the courier is sufficient for the nature of the goods.
Small Claims Court - VTiredeyes
Hi Sooty, thanks for that. :-)
I have sent off a typed up report of around 30 lines of what happened, very short and to the point, in that bundle.
they are now saying that i said yes to paying the extra £300 to make up for it being an import, but they have no written confimation.
thanks for the info, when i get to court, yes i will keep it short and sweet. I feel slighty more positive now.
Small Claims Court - joe
Is that their only line of defence Tiredeyes? They are ot relying on a condition in their paperwork that you have declared your car not to be an import?

If so, then this is a straight case of your word against theirs. You say you turned down the new deal, they say you accepted it.

Judges are not keen on cases like these. In my experience, judges in the small claims court dislike having to make a finding that one side is lying. In these sorts of cases, judges are keen to look at all the other evidence and paperwork to see if they can find any clues. Have a good think about what other evidence there might be that supports what you say.

Also, when the garage produce thier documentation, look to see if there are any notes (handwritten or on an order form) to support their allegation. A court might expect a garage in this situation to have made a note of an important conversation like this. If there is no note, then you should argue that this goes against them. They are buying and selling cars all the time, and would be in the habit of recording things like this.
Small Claims Court - Blue {P}
Ha ha, rumbled! :-) You must have missed the Step into sales thread with me and Carmad1000, we were both asking about getting into the motor trade, and then we both got jobs at Honda within a week of each other!

I must get around to changing that profile, only the career has changed though, everything else is the same, including the usual student interests. ;-)

Blue
Small Claims Court - joe
Tiredeyes, any chance of an update? I would be interested to learn what the wording of the defence actually is.
Small Claims Court - VTiredeyes
Hi joe, court is set at small claims in the first half of june.
all they are asking of me, is to send in details to court and send to the defendant, copies of documents that will be presented on the day. I must make copies and work out on a piece of paper my defence.
and also the defendant has to send these docs they want to show on the day, copies 2 court & me.
also asking for witness statements 2 be sent in.
shall i include my wife as a witness, i am worried the stress will harm her weel being on the day. she is on anti-dess pills. i really dont want to drag her through it all. it is stressfull enough for me (big strong lad !) she was there on the day of test drive and handing deposit over.
Small Claims Court - pmcguire
I feel for you tiredeyes I really do. I was done over by a backstreet dealer when I bought my first Renault Megane.
I found out later that it had been written off some years earlier and patched up. A small detail that the dealer had conveniantly forgotten to mention, which left me and my family driving around in a car with no airbags (thinking they were there). I managed to get most of my money back. I lost around £400 in solicitors fees and other expenses.

I know it's hard for everyone involved, but you will need all the help you can get. Once this is over I am sure you will be much more careful next time (I know I was)

Good luck.
Small Claims Court - DavidHM
VTE - Joe has asked you a very specific question about this - what is the wording of the defence used, i.e., what exactly has the dealership said to the court in response to your claim? You've answered with information on the court procedure. If the court or the defenfant asks you specific, targeted questions like this, you will need to think carefully about what they are and give a direct and relevant response.
Small Claims Court - Pugugly {P}
Call me cautious and entrenched in the old world of legal process but I would hold back from putting your defence in the public domain until the case has been heard. Up to you of course.
Small Claims Court - Mark (RLBS)
I am also surprised that your opponents appear to be willing to go to court on it.

I suggest you read their papers very carefully, and seek advice if neccesary - just to make sure that you're not going to get hammered in court.

As I said earlier, this is really something where you need a real lawyer, face to face, to give you some advice. The BR can help, but it shouldn't be your primary source of advice.
Small Claims Court - DavidHM
It's not his defence, it's the other side's but I take your point.
Small Claims Court - VTiredeyes
not got time yet to type it up
will do it later 2nite 4 u all
Small Claims Court - VTiredeyes
Just been looking through paperwork.
they have sent me (photocopied) their cancelled paperwork for car.
they have written on it, siv=6300 written over to 6000. then witten over again to £5800.
so im guessing they were getting 6000 for part ex. they told me 5700, and wanted 300 from me, and they were going to give £300 "goodwill gesture" !cheeky pink fluffy dice . i have scanned and printed out 3 copies, will be showing this to the judge. can say they were stringing me up all along, they have even wrote on seperate piece of paper, saying they wanted to put in £300 to my £300 to help out. this will prove that they are speaking through forked tounge. just hope they are paying their laywer lots of money. i have contacted michael jacksons ex lawyers ! LOL. not.
Small Claims Court - The Marshall
Hi,

Firstly, I am not a solicitor, merely a experienced general manager who has been to court a couple of times and avoided such on more occasions by doing some home work and using a bit of good bluff.

I think I have covered most of the tread, but forgive me if I missed the obvoius.

Firstly:

You paid the deposit by debit card and mention some paper work, did you sign any document (other than the card slip) such as a contract, deposit form, finance agreement, order form or any other such form?

If you did does this contain any terms and conditions or reference to standard conditions of sale or similar.

If so what do these say, in particular about the deposit.

If it refers to standard terms and conditions which are available on request and you did not have them at the time, or have not had them since you will need to write to the dealer requesting these, I would make the letter very simple and head it "without prejudice" and say something like documents I have in relation to the dispute I have with you makes reference to your standard conditions of trading and would request that you provide me with a copy of such. Do not ask for them if there is no mention of these.

When you get them read them and see what if any thing they say about the deposit.

Now my understanding of the law (caution I could be wrong) there are two types of deposit in your circumstances, a refundable and a non refundable deposit. Generally it can be assumed that a deposit is refundable unless it agreed before hand that it is non refundable.

If the form you may have signed says that the deposit is non refundable then you have lost the right to claim your deposit back. Your claim should be based around the breach of contract whereby they reduced the part exchange offer. I will come back to this.

If the deposit is non refundable then you have lost it, but you have not necessarily entered in to a binding contract as the forfiture of the depsoit is normally classed as a termination penalty. If they keep the deposit they are accepting termination of the contract and as such you could use this as a defence to a counter cliam for any further damnages the dealer may make.

Another situation could be that the deposit you paid is actually a part payment. This is not a deposit but as it suggest a part payment of the contract price. This means the contract is started and you have agreed to buy the car and paid part of the price. You are not entitled to change your mind at a whim. You must carry out your obligation on the contract. In this case your claim is that the dealer had breached the contract as the price they agreed to pay for the part exchange was varied by them which was a fundermental part of the contract.

If the depsotit was refundable they may still be able to claim damages against you in respect of their loss of profit on the deal. If the judge is sympathetic he may decide the dealer must accept this situation as a matter of the normal cours of their trade, they did not actually spend any money and if the price they were asking was fair they should be in a good position to sell it on to another punter. But they may get involved in contract law, case histories etc. But you get the deposit back and they have to claim and prove their costs which could be more than the deposit but they are duty bound to take reasonable steps to mitigate these. You must see if they have reserved a right of off set for these costs against your deposit, if they have they can keep the amount of their loss from your deposit, if not they owe you the money and should claim their costs as a counter cliam. If they have not made such a cliam and paid the fee you should get your money back and your costs. They must then sue you, if they can be bothered in a seperate action.

Second matter.

Contract.

Did you get the valuation on your car before paying the deposit?

If so it is reasonable to assume that you considered the whole "offer" before your "acceptance". The price you were prepared to pay was linked to the allowance they were giving you for your old car. Did they ask you about the cars history? In particular did they ask you if it was an import? Did they HPi your car before making the offer? How do they HPi cars, most dealers do this over a comptuer link in a matter of seconds. This is important. If you are going to claim they breached the contract by offering you a lower price for your car you have to demonstrate that you did not try to decive them (you had no knowlege of the history nor could have known such), you did not give false information (even if you did not know it to be false at the time) and they failed to carry out reasonable diligence procedures before making you the offer. If you said it was not an import as you belived this to be the case they can cliam that they relied upon this in making their judgement of the valuation of the car. This does not mean you were lying though!

If they failed to do a HPi check before making the offer and they had access to a terminal at the time so they could check this out in a few seconds it could be said they were not acting with due diligence. Rememebr, unless you forgot to tell us about a profession in the motor trade, you a an honest Joe, they are the experts on cars.

They gave you a price on your car as a PX for part of the deal to enable you to buy the Audi, if they failed to check out the PX car properly and they changed their mind and offered a lower figure they broke the contract. It is reasonable they should pay you less money for your old car and you either have to accept it or forfeit a deposit you gave in good faith on the basis of the offer they made you.

It is important that you must ensure that the sale of your car to them is part of the deal for you to purchase the Audi from them, not two seperate deals.

Here the wording of their terms and conditions is less important, but not totally uniportant. It is custom and practice in the motor trade that a part exchange is offered as part of the deal to purchase a newer or more expensive car, the word part exchange confirm this. It is also custom and practice in the motor trade that such part exchange values do not necessarly reflect the value of the old car. Dealers may offer more than the old car is worth to close the deal and take a loss when they job the old car out at auction (typically guarenteed minimum px deals) or they may offer lees than the old car is worth to save you the hassle of getting rid of the old car. All dealer look at the whole deal. They may well give a bigger discount to a cash buyer as they know that their ia always a risk in buying in a second hand car. They found out about your cars status, but who is to know if the clutch is a bit thin?

The unfair contractual terms and conditions act can help you here. It is unfair that you should accept a lower value for your old car, you may not have the cash, and it is unfair that they keep your deposit if a fundermental part of the deal changes. It is fair that if they are unhappy with your old car after making the offer that you both go back to where you were, you get the cash abck they don't get lumbered with your old car for a price they don't want to pay. You have both wasted the same amount of time, that is all. It's your spare time and the salesmans being paid to do his job. Thats life!


Finally,

Finace.

If you were taking a HP agreement as part of the deal and signed the form for this write to the finace company sending a copy of the form and a summary of the situation. They are also part of the deal and the deal is covered by the 1974 consumer credit act. You need more specialised advice on this, but in the mean time write to the finace company they may be more reasonable than the dealer.

If there is no finace, look at the T&C's many car traders standard conditions allow for a sale to be broken if a customer is taking finance and all deposits returned should the finace company decline your application for the loan. If this is covered in the T&C's how is your situation so different. If they are prepared to walk away then why not now.

Remeber all consumer contracts must be reasonably balanced. Individual clauses may be fair but if they all side with the dealer then the contract is not balanced and therefore unfair. The judge may then disregard the contract and decide on the basis of more general law.

To sumerise.

Were there terms incorporated in a written contract?

What type of deposit was it?

Did they breach the contract?

Was there any finance agreement?

Were the conditions fair?

I am sorry this is so long, and I have not finished beacuse there are too many variables at present, but if you fill in the gaps I will try to advise best I can in a more concise manner.

P.S. they may be seeing this as well as you, be careful not to reveal all your tactics.
Small Claims Court - VTiredeyes
The unfair contractual terms and conditions act can help you here. It is unfair that you should accept a lower value for your old car, you may not have the cash, and it is unfair that they keep your deposit if a fundermental part of the deal changes. It is fair that if they are unhappy with your old car after making the offer that you both go back to where you were, you get the cash abck they don\'t get lumbered with your old car for a price they don\'t want to pay. You have both wasted the same amount of time, that is all. It\'s your spare time and the salesmans being paid to do his job. Thats life! <<


ithink this just sums it all up.

thanks for the idea\'s, i have more bullets for my gun now.
i just wish i could take all of you with me to court!

the deposit was a depsoit, no mention of being NON-refundable. either in words or on paper.

yes i signed a contract.
no they didnt breech it.
but the contract is all one sided for the massive audi dealership. so the judge might find it to be an unfair contract.
and deal on the basis of general law. (i hope!)
Small Claims Court - DavidHM
There is a lot in that long post that isn't true, or that is nearly true, or that might be true, depending on the facts, but possibly isn't.

vTiredeyes - you're probably getting quite confused. You need to be very, very clear in what you're arguing, stick to it, don't pull things out of the air and don't

Oh and an "unfair contract" is only unfair through statute (the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977) and if, by general law, you mean the common law, then there is no such thing as an unfair contract. Remember that the judge cannot give a remedy that you haven't asked for.

Go to the CAB and/or a brief (although a solicitor may not be interested in a money claim for less than £5,000 because it is a small claim and costs are generally not recoverable) and get some solid, personal, face to face advice. You need it.

Moderators - I would consider locking the thread because a lot of the advice is misleading or confusing, either because it is correct but technical or simply wrong. VTE needs something more direct and in places more expert than this if he is to form a case that the dealer would have to answer.
Small Claims Court - No Do$h
Moderators - I would consider locking the thread because a lot
of the advice is misleading or confusing, either because it is
correct but technical or simply wrong. VTE needs something more
direct and in places more expert than this if he is
to form a case that the dealer would have to answer.


Have to agree. PugUgly has made a similar point in threads passim.

Mr Tiredeyes sir, I shall be locking the thread but leaving it so you can continue to view it. I think the advice to get thee to a solicitor or at least the CAB is the best you will get here. Do keep us informed of any formal legal advice you receive and of course the outcome.


No Dosh
Backroom Moderator
mailto:moderators@honestjohn.co.uk
 

Value my car