How much is my poorly Pug worth? - Hawesy1982
Hi all,

I've given up on my '95 M Pug 306 DTurbo, as it seems to have given up on me! I'm pretty confident the head gasket has gone, i dont have the expertise to fix it myself, and i dont fancy the possible repurcussions of just getting that changed, so i'm looking for a buyer.

Whilst i realise i'll be making a big loss whatever happens, what should be be hoping to get for it? A mate of mine has offered £800 for it, with the intention being for him to repair it himself as a 'project'(wish i had that spare money and space for 'projects' like that!).

I'm close to accepting that, but should i hold out for better?

I've put a post in the Classifieds section just in case anyone here fancies a 'project' ;-)
How much is my poorly Pug worth? - M.M
I guess the true value for your car as a trade in, assuming in average tidy condition, is about £850. These days many private sales are made around the trade in figure.

If I was advising on the potential costs of sorting the fault you report I would have to allow for the possibility there was something that might cause the head to need replacing. Add a worthwhile exchange unit to gaskets, head bolts, fluids and even modest labour....that will soon bring you to well over £750.

Take that repair cost from the usual value and you're left with its real value. You do the maths!!

If you have a friend willing to give you £800 then knock off at least another £300 and thank him for taking it from you.

M.M
How much is my poorly Pug worth? - PhilW
Take the money and run! but you might lose a friend!
How much is my poorly Pug worth? - DL
Take the cash. It's his call, not yours.

--
groups.msn.com/honestjohn - Pictures say a thousand words.....
How much is my poorly Pug worth? - DavidHM
I think MM is being a little harsh on your car's value, although he is a trader and is talking about opportunities that might come his way that he would take.

If your friend is an enthusiastic amateur, such good deals might not be available. FWIW, I reckon the private sale value of this car with no faults worth mentioning and a new MoT, is about £1500, trade about £1100.

Hugo's Xantia epic last year was similar. Parts only to get this car going would probably cost, for a new head or a used engine with light reconditioning done by the buyer, in the region of £400.

That means that, should your mate be willing to work for free, I'd put a value on the car of £700. Should he then spend £400 he'd get a small profit (i.e., not worth doing) if he sold the car on.

Of course, if you accept his first 'low ball' offer you've done nothing wrong; if he's the one who is trying to make money out of this, he won't even blame you unless he happens to read this thread.
How much is my poorly Pug worth? - Hawesy1982
Thanks for the replies, everyone, sounds like the best thing to do is to give him it for £800, so he's coming to pick it up on Saturday.

He knows the full story of it's defects so at least i'll have a clean conscience, and get to see how it progresses. Might have to deal with jealousy if he gets it going again for pennies, mind!

Oh and ive already replaced it!
'95 M 1.6 Escort LX, very good condition, 55000 miles, FSH for £1200 inc 10months tax and MOT

Hopefully i'll have a less involved time on the Technical Matters forum with this one!
How much is my poorly Pug worth? - M.M
David,

Forgive me for taking this a bit *too* seriously but...

I am not a trader, I do not buy and sell cars. What I do is maintain a "group" of vehicles for a "group" of folks to a high standard at sensible cost.

You cannot make money as a trader if you take the care I do that cars are spot on throughout their life.

I do a lot of pre-purchase inspections, and for those that jump into the fire without help then I do post purchase inspection services. As it happens I've just been boiling my brain for a week assisting with the purchase of a "tidy TD hatch under £2000", loads of 306s featured so I'm well in tune with them.....in this area at least.

Also I have just lost a '95 M-reg 306xldt from my books with 135K recorded (black with alloys and MOTd/taxed).... that was traded in for £800 against a £5K vehicle.

I pulled the £850 value for Hawsey's out of the air but checking with Glass's they give a range of £700-£1000 as a trade-in for a '95-M with 129K recorded. £700 for a shortish MOT rough example, and £1000 for one ready to retail without work.

Trust me loads of cars do sell privately for the trade-in figure and that should be your aim as a buyer. The car I found in the end for the buyer mentioned above was a mint, full history, Golf diesel and we paid the private seller just £10 over its trade-in value.

With regards to the repair costs of course you are right it could be sorted DIY for nearer £400. But then that added to his offer to buy at £800 means he's going to end up paying a figure that would buy him one ready to use without the work...and that's before he's found all the little niggles you never notice on first inspection.

And you mentioned Hugo, didn't he get his P-reg Xantia from a friend for just the £50 it cost to deliver!

M.M
How much is my poorly Pug worth? - M.M
Hawsey,

Missed your post as I slowly constructed mine!

None of my stuff was meant to be personal but I spend so much time advising on/dealing with the fallout of dodgy deals and shoddy work I tend to look 100% on the buyers side.

It is probably true to say over 50% of buyers pay too much for stuff that is in worse condition than claimed by the seller....unless they get good advice from someone who knows the business.

And I think the fact you managed to replace the 306 with a nice sounding LX Escort of the same age and half the mileage rather confirms my thoughts on the 306's low value with head trouble.

Good luck with the new car anyway!

M.M
How much is my poorly Pug worth? - DavidHM
Sorry, I thought you were a trader but I'm mistaken and happy to withdraw my "accusation", which was made entirely without malice.

Okay... my figure is based on trade in offers a colleague received for a 306 TD, 95N, 106k, running a little rough but functional, in white with steel wheels. I'm not going to take this too seriously either but I try to rely on more than gut feelings too.

She was after a late petrol A3, admittedly, but apart from one £1800 against an overpriced 51 plater, they were all in the low four figures (£1000 to £1400). AutoTrader has very little for sale privately below £1800, haggling down to £1500.

Hugo did get his car stupidly cheap, but then a car like this is much more popular than a Xantia, because it is (arguably) better looking and in a lower insurance group, thus popular with an early 20s crowd that wouldn't look at the Xantia or ZX. Similar repair costs though.

As you say, I agree that the mate is doing a lot of work for very little reward; where we disagree is that I don't think he'll effectively be paying for the privilege of having done it, though he'll be underpaid if you see what I mean.
How much is my poorly Pug worth? - Hawesy1982
I think my mate just fancied a project really, like i said before he is in the enviable position of being a student (like me), but with parents rich enough for him to not need worry about money, and as such occupies himself building kit cars with 4.6litre Landrover engines in etc, so i dont think the potential effort and cost it will take him to get my old Pug going again bothers him one iota!

As regards David's comment on the inflated 306 prices, especially the DTurbo, i fully agree that due to it's group 5 insurance and sporty look and driving feel it carries a very obvious desirability premium for 20yearolds like me, and as such are overpriced in the secondhand market.

Thanks for the encouragement on my new car, i was MUCH wiser when viewing this one, whereas before the Pug was as good as bought before i'd even opened the door or bonnet! The escort will do me nicely for A-B driving, and i'll probably spend another £240 for one-years Warranty Direct cover, for peace of mind. However its annoying that a less desirable and technically slower car is ins grp 7 (thats an extra £185 to me).
How much is my poorly Pug worth? - M.M
You're right guys that the 306 is usually over-valued for the age/condition due to the youngsters demand. I rate them as an excellent nippy TD but the problem is so many older ones are getting into the type of ownership where they are only repaired after failure rather than receiving regular preventative maintenance.

A post purchase inspection on your average £1000-£1500 306 often reveals...

Weeping rear brake cylinders and worn shoes, tired pads/discs, worn front suspension bushes, tired dampers, radiator failing, timing belt overdue, service overdue, no records or coolant or brake fluid changes, tarnished headlamp reflectors, airbag lamp stuck on, heavy clutch. On diesels you can add in oil leaks, iffy head gaskets and duff glowplugs on the harder to reach cylinders.

That is why you *have* to get a 306 at bottom money and attend to these issues if it is ever to be a pleasure and not a monthly money pit.

The last one that came here for a post-purchase inspection had a good proportion of the above faults but the owner wisely spent about £500 having them all sorted over the first few months, since then he's been able to enjoy fault free driving pleasure and loves it.

M.M
How much is my poorly Pug worth? - PhilW
And of course M.M. maybe the purchaser of this car knows there isn't that much (more)wrong with it and would prefer to spend his time "doing up" a Pug 306 rather than going to the pub every night and spending £10 on beer and fags (sorry, make that £20, or £30!!) He sounds as if he knows what he is doing? (This is not an argument against any points made so far by the way, merely a suggestion - this guy may end up with a "pride and joy" car for relative peanuts and can take pride in how he has achieved it)
How much is my poorly Pug worth? - Hawesy1982
Spot on Phil,

My mate Fergus knows what he's doing, and enjoys it. Money really isnt a huge issue to him either, so it really is a feeling of 'I got that going again' that he's after.

Anyway thanks for everyones help and advice, and i promise i'll keep you updated with how he's getting on with it in due course!
How much is my poorly Pug worth? - Hawesy1982
SOLD!

Yesterday, as it went off on a trailer i felt an interesting mixed emotion of sadness and relief! Got my £800 for it too.

Anyway after an MSN chat earlier today, he reckons the air was getting into the cooling system via the hose on the top-right of the engine, which was causing the coolant level light to be on intermittently. He's ordered the parts for a head gasket change, which he'll likely start on by next weekend.

Somehow i feel that post, and probable future updates, should be in 'Technical', but never mind.
 

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