Don't know what all the fuss is about. OK, great engine & 'box, but, terrible (leather) seats, poor headlights, Oliver Reed drinking habbits, cramped accomodation, nervous steering, horrendous depreciation. After owning a Vauxhall Carlton Gsi3000 for 10 yrs, the BMW just left me cold!
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Never driven one but this is the first time I've heard one called thirsty for what it is - a big luxury car. I've been in a couple and never thought the seats were anything other than comfortable over short distances at least.
Depreciation is excellent for a car of its size and price range. Of course it's going to depreciate by serious amounts of money, but £25k to £13k over three years is hardly disastrous compared to, say, an Omega, let alone a Vel Satis that would probably do the same in one. Never noticed a problem with the lights either, although to be honest I doubt that I would have.
As for the accommodation - it's okay, not great, but obviously it does the job for the people who buy it.
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Can't fault your reply at all David, but before I bought the BMW, I'd owned a Vauxhall Carlton Gsi3000 for 10 years and apart from the refinement at speed, the Gsi had the BMW licked comprehensively! A total HOOT to drive with reasonable running costs. I'm eagerly awaiting other 5series/Gsi owners comments...
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and sorry for repeating myself on what car I\'d owned and for how long! Oh I\'ve got a Laguna 1.9dci now & that smacks the BMW\'s pink fluffy dice too!
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Nitro, kindly moderate your language. This is not the first post of yours I\'ve had to edit.
Please take note of the following
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=12...4
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Dynamic Dave
Back Room Moderator
mailto:dave_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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Without helping turn this thread in to BMW knocking (I take every individual model on it?s own merit and care not a jot about badge), I had the same experience with the current generation BMW 3 series.
Everybody told me to expect the Ultimate Driving Machine, but I was distinctly unimpressed when I compared a 2.5 litre Touring example with sports suspension and wheels against the Vectra GSi Estate I ended up running.
BMW ? No soul or character beyond engine noise. Lifeless steering that was not as millimetre accurate as I?d been told to expect. Decidedly narrow and cramped inside, without even getting in to the joke that says it?s a ?lifestyle? estate. Noise at speed. Common as Eastenders on the roads these days. Nowhere near as quick as I was hoping for, either off the line, A-road overtaking, or with motorway roll-on acceleration..
Vx ? Had the Beemer licked on all these counts, cheaper to buy and run, too, and reliability proved to be absolute. This model, of which I am told only three hundred and something (Estates) were made, is so vastly improved on its underpinnings, that it?s hard to believe the relationship. Truly delighted as I am with our new V70 2.4T, I really miss this car, its? abilities, and its? character.
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Well I wouldn't mind owning one. I've never driven one, but have travelled in one & it was nothing short of superb. The reviews suggest that the older 5 was pretty much unbeatable as a car which is saying something. Presumably the new one is no worse...
Regarding this accommodation thing, the way I see it is that you cannot necessarily criticise car manufacturers for this. You take a look and if there's the room you require, then fine. If not then look for something roomier. The 5 looks like an ideal car for couples (whose kids have flown) with cash to spare and want to travel round in some luxury. 10 years to go then I'll qualify for that!
Splodgeface
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I struggle to believe that the Carlton's chassis is a match for the 5 series (or even an older 5 series for that matter). But I would have to try one.
"Nervous" steering probably translates as "more communicative" to other people.
As for depreciation - if condition and colour are OK, it's one of the best in class.
Yes you would need to spend to get decent engine (2.5 litre min).
Yes you would need to spend to get a half comfortable interior spec - even without "toys".
Ain't that always the case with the German marques?
Which all adds up to the Carlton probably representing better value in terms of more bangs for your buck at purchase.
After that, I would have thought it evens out.
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Steve S
Re: Gsi
If you get a chance, drive one, they're a real hooligans car. May not have quite the ride comfort or refinement of the 5, but put lots more smiles on my mush!
I'm not out to knock BMWs at all, just giving my own opinion really!
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Nitro,
I'll have a go with one of these GSIs, they sound fun. I used to have a 5 series and had a lot of respect for the chassis. The fuel on a 525 was pretty reasonable and the steering was good too - so maybe there are problems with this particular one?
Anyway, comfort wise I agree totally with you. The seats are very avarage. The interiors are often dull and good spec's and engines cost over the odds.
I don't have a BMW now, I have a C70. While not the last word in handling - it's fast, well spec'd and very comfortable. So yes, those seats got me in the end!
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Not going to disagree with you as everyone has their own views, but my experiences are
Great engine - my 3.0 diesel is (to me) great
Great box - my maual is a bit of a disappointment
Terrible seats - my normal ones are very comfy
Poor headlights - agree 100% (unless Xenon)
Drinking habits - at 70 mph on the m'way I think that a 45mpg return for the estate isn't bad
Cramped accomodation - I don't sit in the back
nervous steering - not in mine
Depreciation - mine wasn't bought new but was one year old with low mileage and 20% less than new book value
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"BMW ? No soul or character beyond engine noise"
Sums it up, but everything else is just the usual Anti BM rhetoric.
By the way
"my 3.0 diesel is (to me) great" ditto
"Terrible seats" - my normal ones are very comfy ditto
Xenon lights are superb
"Drinking habits ditto"
"nervous steering - not in mine" nor mine, as solid as a rock
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CM:-
Great engine - mine was a 2.8 petrol - smooth as silk
Great 'box - had the 5 speed steptronic - another winner
Terrible seats - short on the squab, no lumbar adjustment, backache after about 50mls. Worst I've ever sat in!
Poor headlights - didn't have zenon, about 5 candle power!
Drinking habits - 45mpg; mine wouldn't have done that running down the side if a mountain with the engine turned off!
Cramped accomodation - you're right, WYSIWYG!
Nervous steering - OK, not that bad, but 2 light and at risk of sounding like a wuss, we're not on a racetrack!
Depreciation - Paid £10k for mine in 2002 @ 130k miles; a bargain I agree 4 everything you are getting and the build quality (are they carved out of granite?). But 1yr later & 140k miles, offered as little as £4k.
Sum up:- Oh I'm confused!
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Nitroburner, have you considered it may be your actual car in particular that wasnt all that? A good engine and geometry set-up may have cured the drinking problem and nervous steering.
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