Opinions - who has priority? - Wee Willie Winkie

4 way traffic light controlled junction. Major road is 2 lanes in each direction. One car is turning left from minor road onto major road, which is a 90 degree corner, so needs to use all of lane 1 and a little of lane 2 on the major road. The other car is turning right from opposite minor road onto major road, to travel in the same direction as the first car.

Who has priority?

Opinions - who has priority? - Manatee

They should both have the sense to keep out of each other's way. Some situations can't be catered for fully by rules.

If it came to a pointless argument, I'd probably guess the left turner would have priority over a right turner, but conversely he should keep out of the other lane.

Even if one of them has legal priority, it wouldn't help in any material way unless they discussed it in advance. Either would be an idiot to presume the other one is going to give way.

Edited by Manatee on 29/11/2018 at 19:10

Opinions - who has priority? - Wee Willie Winkie

That's a very balanced way of looking at it. I like.it.

I think in this world there's too much "me me me". Your approach of just avoid and let others get on with it is to be applauded!

Ps - I'm not telling you which idiot I was!

Opinions - who has priority? - catsdad
I think the left turner has priority.

In any case the car turning right (A) cannot assume that the left turning car (B) is actually turning, even if signalling. It follows that A has to allow for the possibility that B is coming straight on and cannot turn right until B has committed.

Opinions - who has priority? - Wee Willie Winkie

Ah. Car A would be coming from a 2 lane one way street.

Edited by DieselBoy on 29/11/2018 at 19:22

Opinions - who has priority? - 72 dudes

Left turner would have priority, but I also like Manatee's pragmatic approach.

Not enough observation, anticipation and courtesy in most driving situations these days.

Opinions - who has priority? - Andrew-T
I think the left turner has priority. In any case the car turning right (A) cannot assume that the left turning car (B) is actually turning, even if signalling. It follows that A has to allow for the possibility that B is coming straight on and cannot turn right until B has committed.

Exactly. A right-turner cannot assume it is safe to cross oncoming traffic until it has cleared - unless he has a right-turn filter in his favour of course.

Opinions - who has priority? - ExA35Owner

My mantra: Always assume the other driver is a bigger fool than you are!

Opinions - who has priority? - John F

As I understand it, each car is entering a single carriageway with two lanes in each direction. If the left turner enters and stays in the inside lane, and the right turner crosses two lanes then enters and stays in the outside lane, there is no need for either car to take priority over the other. But it could be argued that if the left turner requires and enters the outside lane after immediately entering and crossing the inner lane in order to turn right after a short distance, he could be at fault if he collided with the right turner. I think a lane should only be entered if it is clear. I don't understand why the left turner should need both lanes. Poor road design? Stretch limo?

Opinions - who has priority? - Wee Willie Winkie

90 degree tight corner.

Opinions - who has priority? - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

Am I missing something? Most junctions are 90° and I'd not consider that to be tight.

Opinions - who has priority? - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

I don't understand why the left turner should need both lanes. Poor road design? Stretch limo?

I also do not understand why you need 2 lanes if you are in a car. Yes ,I have seen other drivers using more than one lane at road junction, often visibly using insufficent steering lock or simply rushing the manoeuvre.

Drive defensively and keep out of their way.

Opinions - who has priority? - Wee Willie Winkie

Most have a nice curve, this is a junction where the kerbs meet at right angles.

You're right though, as I'd have no idea if the oncoming car is going to use lane 2 or firestraight into lane 1, I guess the easiest option is to stay back and let them carry on with their day. I'll just go when it's blindingly obvious an oncoming car isn't going to go regardless of who else is there.

Edited by DieselBoy on 02/12/2018 at 15:52

Opinions - who has priority? - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

Most have a nice curve, this is a junction where the kerbs meet at right angles.

You're right though, as I'd have no idea if the oncoming car is going to use lane 2 or firestraight into lane 1, I guess the easiest option is to stay back and let them carry on with their day. I'll just go when it's blindingly obvious an oncoming car isn't going to go regardless of who else is there.

Wow, never come across a junction literally like that. Must be uniquely weird.

Opinions - who has priority? - Engineer Andy

Eanie meanie minie moe? Rock, paper, scissors? Arm wrestling?

;-)

Opinions - who has priority? - Manatee

This reminded me that unmarked junctions used to be much more common than they are now.

They are still found on small country roads of course, but when I took my test there was a whole area of unmarked crossroads in a built up area near the middle of Huddersfield that was commonly used for test routes causing candidates much anxiety.

The highway code's position on these is there is no priority of any kind, whether turning left, right or going straight on. You just have to (be ready to) stop, look, and sort it out although the HC does IIRC suggest it is courteous to give way to "larger vehicles".

I can't find any handy references to it but I'm pretty sure the common law position is that you must take the highway as you find it; regardless of 'priorities', even when they exist, you must exercise due care in regard to people and property when you use it. This is also the default position when traffic lights fail, road marks are worn away, signs are missing etc.

Anybody who tries to rely on their own view of priorities at unmarked junctions had just better hope that the other drivers using it agree with them.

Edited by Manatee on 01/12/2018 at 11:59

Opinions - who has priority? - Andrew-T

You just have to (be ready to) stop, look, and sort it out although the HC does IIRC suggest it is courteous to give way to "larger vehicles".

From my driving seat, almost every other vehicle seems "larger" these days .... :-(

Opinions - who has priority? - TheGentlemanThug

Agreed, the right-turner shouldn't advance if it isn't clear to do so, so the left-turner would have priority.

That wouldn't stop some drivers from racing away from the lights to beat you to it, mind you.