Obstructive driving - Andrew-T

This afternoon I was taking in the scenery in a 3mph crawl down the M6 towards an incident near the Thelwall viaduct, about half a mile short of my exit. Several cars behind decided to use the shoulder to get to that exit a bit sooner, so I tagged along, to help reduce the tailback. A bright red Audi (note that) decided that they and I were being naughty, so he pulled 'in' just ahead of me and continued at 3mph blocking any passage, so I gave him 2 fingers getting one in return. This continued to the start of the slip road, when he graciously allowed anyone else to follow him.

I can't see how that self-righteous behaviour benefited anyone at all - including himself, as we all took longer to get home. Why do so many German cars seem to give their drivers such an exaggerated sense of undeserved superiority and entitlement? And what would he have done if an emergency vehicle had wished to pass (one police car already had) ?

Edited by Andrew-T on 10/08/2018 at 19:33

Obstructive driving - badbusdriver

It is illegal to use the hard shoulder in that way (there is a book called 'the highway code' you should check it out), so it is not really 'obstuctive driving'. Though i would agree that it is not the Audi drivers responsibilty to do anything about it other than passing dashcam footage to the Police so you can all get a nice fine for it (which others may well have done anyway).

I do find it very odd that you have started this post in some curious attempt to garner sympathy for someone attempting to stop you, and some others, breaking the law. A bit like if i started a post to complain about someone preventing me from zooming up the motorway doing 100mph!

Obstructive driving - Andrew-T

I do find it very odd that you have started this post in some curious attempt to garner sympathy for someone attempting to stop you, and some others, breaking the law.

I might not mind as much if his 'attempt to stop me breaking the law' had had that effect, but quite clearly it had not, as it probably increased the number of offenders, including himself. Like many of us I am irritated by those who take advantage in traffic jams, but playing dog in the manger is no solution. I don't need 'sympathy', which is a useless commodity in this context.

Obstructive driving - badbusdriver

I do find it very odd that you have started this post in some curious attempt to garner sympathy for someone attempting to stop you, and some others, breaking the law.

I might not mind as much if his 'attempt to stop me breaking the law' had had that effect, but quite clearly it had not, as it probably increased the number of offenders, including himself. Like many of us I am irritated by those who take advantage in traffic jams, but playing dog in the manger is no solution. I don't need 'sympathy', which is a useless commodity in this context.

If you are as you say, irritated by others taking advantage, why did you join in?. Look, i don't know how long you were stuck in traffic for, maybe i might have done the same in that situation, i'm just not very sure what you hope to achieve by starting a post on it. The law is very clear, this is from the highway code on the Gov website:

You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by the police, traffic officers in uniform or by signs.

Obstructive driving - Andrew-T

<< I don't know how long you were stuck in traffic for, maybe i might have done the same in that situation >>

Oh, not that long, probably 30-40 minutes. My 26-mile journey took 45 minutes in the morning, three times that this afternoon. I had passed the one-third-mile warning marker for my exit when the shoulder drivers started, and there were a few miles of tailback behind. You are welcome to quote me the H-C, and even to assume that I haven't heard of it, but heading to an exit before the marked slip road begins is pretty common on UK motorways - even on smart ones ....

Obstructive driving - gordonbennet

A tongue in cheek post indeed, not biting Andrew.:-)

However, there are people, usually male by appearance of a certain age, who go out of their way to dictate/control how others will drive, possibly the same type who want to control other parts of life as well, probably lefties...no that was joke before anyone calls the Grauniad/BBC/any other propaganda mill and gets me investigated now that Boris isn't apologising for being whimsical.

SWMBO reckons they are dominated weedy emasculated males who are hen pecked into total submission at home, probably at work too, and only from the safety of their steel and glass cage can they desperately try to exert some control that is sadly otherwise missing from their lives.

Edited by gordonbennet on 10/08/2018 at 20:05

Obstructive driving - Engineer Andy

To be fair Andrew, the hard shoulder is there for emergency use only (and why I disagree with the government in using them for peak periods) and no-one apart from the emergency services or as directed by them should be using it in such circumstances.

I was caught up in a 15+mile jam on the A30 in Cornwall on my way home from holiday last September, and because that road had no hard shoulder, it took the emergency services and recover vehicles over an hour to reach them, as there wasn't even an option to get to them going the wrong way (the next juntion was a tiny country road and the one after was the one for Exeter so could snarl up half the city if it were closed off).

Believe me when I say I don't think any of us would want to wait an hour for an ambulance because someone wanted to get to their destination quicker by using the hard shoulder and possibly getting stuck (not just if some berk as you describe wanted to stop your progress because he wasn't making any), for ANY REASON. Don't foget that people could be milling around on the hard shoulder in this situation, making that area an accident waiting to happen unless you want to be beeping your horn every few seconds to clear a path...

I completely disagree with what the Audi driver (quelle surprise) did, as this happens a lot in the UK on dual carriageways and motorways, with so many people forgetting the merging in turn rule and that using all the lanes right up to the merge point significantly reduces the length of the queues - its just many of us like queuing in one line like at the post office, and think anyone (not just repmobiles) legitimately going all the way to the merge point is wrong or rude and should wait behind them. That is different to people pushing in by going on the wrong side of the road or down the cevrons on a merge to a single lane etc, which IS dangerous.

Obstructive driving - daveyjp
However, with the number of confusing motorway layouts we have now it is becoming almost impossible to know if you can run on the hard shoulder or not.

Certainly on the M62 it switches, which is probably why earlier this week I saw a couple of cars using it like a normal lane. This was just after a stretch where you could and it was open.
Obstructive driving - Andrew-T

<< the hard shoulder is there for emergency use only ... and no-one apart from the emergency services or as directed by them should be using it in such circumstances. >>

Yes, of course it is. I wasn't trying to justify my movements, but wondering how the Audi driver thought his actions had any useful purpose beyond preventing anyone getting past Him. But for his action I might have obstructed the shoulder for about 15 seconds. As it was, that became several minutes, and I don't know how many other cars were behind me.

Obstructive driving - Brit_in_Germany

Strange that the rest of Europe considers that the best route for emergency vehicles is between the outer two lanes of traffic, with it being an offence not to move over to allow the free passage. The logic is that the hard shoulder may be blocked and so it is more efficient to drive between the traffic.

Obstructive driving - Engineer Andy

Strange that the rest of Europe considers that the best route for emergency vehicles is between the outer two lanes of traffic, with it being an offence not to move over to allow the free passage. The logic is that the hard shoulder may be blocked and so it is more efficient to drive between the traffic.

As I explained in my earlier post, I saw this sort of thing in action on the A30, and believe you me, compared to having a hard shoulder solely for the emergency services to use, it was ridiculously slow - the police cars, and especially the fire engine (the vehciles involved were overturned and people needed to be cut free) and recovery truck had to tip-toe through the already bumper-to-bumper traffic, hence why it took them an hour just to get to the scene.

If there had been a hard shoulder and it wasn't full of idiots, then they could've reached the scene in a quarter of the time. Fortunately no-one was seriously hurt (just upside-down vehicles and people needing help to get them out, plus recovery and clean-up of the scene), so in the end, it was more an inconvenience for all involved as well as the rest of us. Of course, the emergency services didn't know that until they arrived and checked everyone involved out.

Obstructive driving - Engineer Andy

<< the hard shoulder is there for emergency use only ... and no-one apart from the emergency services or as directed by them should be using it in such circumstances. >>

Yes, of course it is. I wasn't trying to justify my movements, but wondering how the Audi driver thought his actions had any useful purpose beyond preventing anyone getting past Him. But for his action I might have obstructed the shoulder for about 15 seconds. As it was, that became several minutes, and I don't know how many other cars were behind me.

Fair enough, but I've seen on more than one occasion idiots who have used the hard shoulder to jump the queue and then try and push BACK IN to the main 2/3 lanes and not slip off at the next junction to go elsewhere, or they slip off, go round the roundabout then slip back on, gaining some distance on other traffic. The second situation is stupid enough, but I've seen the first whereby they then block the hard shoulder because there's no room to let them back on.

It only would take one idiot like that and then several cars like yours behind to then create an immovable queue, again, creating a serious block for any emergency services (one car is bad enough - 30+ is almost impassable).

As I said before, the idiot who deliberately blocked your way was firmly in the wrong and by rights should've been spoken to (or more) by the Police, but so should you for breaking the rules in a different way, however well intentioned. As I said, the reason why the hard shoulder was institued and, in my view, should still be left as such, is for safety reasons.

Obstructive driving - Leif

<< the hard shoulder is there for emergency use only ... and no-one apart from the emergency services or as directed by them should be using it in such circumstances. >>

Yes, of course it is. I wasn't trying to justify my movements, but wondering how the Audi driver thought his actions had any useful purpose beyond preventing anyone getting past Him. But for his action I might have obstructed the shoulder for about 15 seconds. As it was, that became several minutes, and I don't know how many other cars were behind me.

If lots of people drive on the hard shoulder they will significantly slow the Audi drivers progression as there will be a bottleneck ahead, either at the next exit, or at the incident on the motorway. So I understand his/her annoyance. I have had a similar thing when trying to merge before a restriction. For some reason everyone used one lane only, causing a tailback onto a roundabout, thereby blocking cars going in other directions. But apparently I was wrong to use lane two to avoid that. People often get uptight, due to busy lives, horrible bosses, squawking children etc and have little patience on the roads.

Obstructive driving - Smileyman

I understand the police and others don't like "ordinary" motorists using the hard shoulder as it might impede their way to an incident .... how this reconciles with the lane running aspect has to be explained (perhaps by use of red crosses over lanes?) .. what is certain is that the misery of those caught behind comes a miserable second (or worse) in the order of priority for action ... .

Obstructive driving - TheGentlemanThug

Granted, the driver of the Audi was out of line, but so were you. They may never have done what they did if you hadn't done what you did.

Edited by Bicycle_Repair_Man on 10/08/2018 at 23:01

Obstructive driving - Andrew-T

Granted, the driver of the Audi was out of line, but so were you. They may never have done what they did if you hadn't done what you did.

I am pretty sure that if it hadn't been me it would have been some other car. I think about 6 went past me before the Audi decided to obstruct. If he wished to insist on waiting until start of the slip-lane, that is what he should have done.

Obstructive driving - KenC

There are a HUGE number of CCTV cameras situated around motorway junctions used for various purposes and with shared access ( meaning the police can view the recordings) driving unlawfully on the hard shoulder carries "penalty points" for those caught doing so.

By my calulations you only have another 11 days wait to find out if you were recorded on CCTV camera

Obstructive driving - John F

Why do so many German cars seem to give their drivers such an exaggerated sense of undeserved superiority and entitlement?

As a frequent driver of German cars (Ford Focus & Audi....) I question the underlying premise of your question. I have often come across similar 'obstructive' driving in England but never noticed badge preponderance. Perhaps the question should really ask.....why are some British drivers so b1oody-minded? It appears to be a bit of a national characteristic which I don't seem to notice much when driving abroad. If your premise is true, presumably those who drive a lot in Germany are frequently obstructed!

Edited by John F on 11/08/2018 at 10:52

Obstructive driving - Engineer Andy

Why do so many German cars seem to give their drivers such an exaggerated sense of undeserved superiority and entitlement?

As a frequent driver of German cars (Ford Focus & Audi....) I question the underlying premise of your question. I have often come across similar 'obstructive' driving in England but never noticed badge preponderance. Perhaps the question should really ask.....why are some British drivers so b1oody-minded? It appears to be a bit of a national characteristic which I don't seem to notice much when driving abroad. If your premise is true, presumably those who drive a lot in Germany are frequently obstructed!

To be honest, I often see people driving cars OTHER THAN German makes deliberately blocking those driving German ones (especially flashy Audis, Mercs and BMWs) when joining from slip/side roads in heavy traffic, even if they aren't doing anything to deserve it, presumably just because theyr're driving a German branded car.

I've also noticed a change in this sort of behaviour in the last 10-15 years, in that for motorway slip-ons, everyone is now EXPECTED to filter on right at the start of the slip off - anyone 'caught trying to slip on nearer to the end of the slip lane gets blocked, seemingly more so by HGVs. Then you get the stupid idiots who try and barge their way in by barrelling down the slip road into slow moving traffic, or by cutting straight in to the queue across the chevrons before the start of the slip-on point.

I agree that such poor, inconsiderate driving has got progressively worse since the 1990s. In a way, we're lucky that vehicle safety has significantly improved, as has medical treatment for accident injuries, so that the effects of this has been masked for the most part - the main clue is the rise in insurance premiums (not the only cause of their rise though, obviously).

Obstructive driving - Leif
I live and drive in East Hampshire and generally driving standards are good. People are polite, and safe. However I regularly have issues with HGV drivers who can be complete c***s. Time and time again, I am in lane 2 of the motorway, I indicate left, with loads of time to spare, and the HGV deliberately speeds up to close the gap with the car in front. It’s childish and inconsiderate driving. If there is a HGV behind, they too will close the gap. I’ve also experienced this when trying to get on the motorway, when HGVs drive nose to tail. In general HGV drivers are okay, but in this situation they are unpleasant.
Obstructive driving - Snakey

Quoting the HC is a waste of time these days, its utterly hopelessly outdated. On the junction near my house the idiot road planners added lights to the roundabout (a pet hate of mine!) and the result now at rush hour is a queue in the left hand lane of the sliproad right the way back down to the motorway - obviously the right hand lane of the slip road is almost empty due to the lack of knowledge of the road planners as to where the majority of the cars are heading.

The result is people queue on the hard shoulder, which technically illegal according to the horse driven HC - but considerably safer than having stationary traffic on the inside lane of the motorway - when the traffic on the motorway is generally moving freely I wouldn't like to be the one with his ass hanging out trying to edge off onto the sliproad!

Our roads are a mess and most of it is by poor design, often motorists have to work things out for themselves as to what is the safest/logical option and the HC ends up in the bin as it barely reflects real life situations - such as stopping distances!

Obstructive driving - Engineer Andy

If its so dangerous, why haven't you written to the papers (local is often good for this sort of thing), your MP, Sec of State for Transport and Highways England saying as much, plus everyone else? They won't do anything unless people complain in enough numbers and publicly. It also doesn't mean that taking matters into your own hands and breaking the law is acceptable.

The HC also assumes that not everyone is driving an Audi RS4 that can brake on a sixpence, i.e. for less sporty, older and heavier vehicles. You can't expect the HC to give the stopping distances for every car, nor does that take into account the skills and reactions of the driver - an elderly driver will react far slower and may not be able to exert as much force on the brake pedal, at least really quickly, as a younger person. That being said, the older driver probably has the experience to be less likely to need to brake that hard, by leaving more space than younger drivers.

I just hope your car is in tipt-top condition if you leave what you believe the absolute minimum braking distance is (I wonder how you've checked this). Additionally, what happens if you have an HGV behind you? Maybe they didn't read the sporty badge so don't realise (for example) the car in front has ventilated competition ceramic disc brakes and so drive too close. All to get to their destination a few seconds earlier. Leaving greater gaps also means changing lanes and slipping onto motorways is far easier and safer - for everyone.

Most accidents happen because people don't drive defensively (i.e. leaving sufficient room to cope with the vast majority of things) and often take undue risks, say, to get to a destination on time, often because they left no bunce in their allowance to get there if stuck in some kind of traffic jam.

Obstructive driving - Snakey

I did contact Highways and received no reply. Since when did anyone do anything about people complaining about a poorly planned road? North Tyneside made a recent balls up of the Billy Mill and resolutely refuse to do anything about it, despite most people experiencing longer delays since the roundabout was covered in traffic lights!

Obstructive driving - Engineer Andy

I did contact Highways and received no reply. Since when did anyone do anything about people complaining about a poorly planned road? North Tyneside made a recent balls up of the Billy Mill and resolutely refuse to do anything about it, despite most people experiencing longer delays since the roundabout was covered in traffic lights!

As I said, unless people follow through and REALLY kick up a stink in large numbers, no, nothing will be done. Most people can't be bothered, or stop after getting no reply after a few weeks or a bureaucratic response from some underling with no power.

They DO listen to continued bad publicity, especially if you drag politicians responsible for the issue into it and not just the local jobsworth bureaucrat. A prime example of this in my local area was the recent changover in refuse collection company - as bad as the old one was at certain aspects, the new service was FAR worse, so people like me and many others phoned the helpline - nothin much happened. We then jacked it up and contacted the local newspapers in the Council's area, and lo and behold, after the councillor (and the party generally) in charge of that brief was subject of weeks of bad press, things have suddenly started to get better.

Unfortunately, writing a snotty letter/email to these people once doesn't cut it any more. Weeks, months or even years of campaigning, sometimes regionally or nationally is realistically the ONLY way to get results these days, because civil servants and politicians of the modern era are significantly more removed from the common person in the street, and many think they are above us. They shouldn't - they are supposed to be SERVING the public, not the other way around.

Obstructive driving - Andrew-T

Why do so many German cars seem to give their drivers such an exaggerated sense of undeserved superiority and entitlement?

As a frequent driver of German cars (Ford Focus & Audi....) I question the underlying premise of your question.

As another example of my general point, my journey home today includes several miles of 50mph road, some with 2 or 3 lanes and long stretches. While I usually pootle at 50-55-ish, the cars which belt past at anything up to 75 or maybe more are BMW, Merc, Audi almost without fail. That's the sort of superiority and entitlement I meant - I can, so I do. I don't believe they are all unaware of their speed.

Obstructive driving - P3t3r

This afternoon I was taking in the scenery in a 3mph crawl down the M6 towards an incident near the Thelwall viaduct, about half a mile short of my exit. Several cars behind decided to use the shoulder to get to that exit a bit sooner, so I tagged along, to help reduce the tailback. A bright red Audi (note that) decided that they and I were being naughty, so he pulled 'in' just ahead of me and continued at 3mph blocking any passage, so I gave him 2 fingers getting one in return. This continued to the start of the slip road, when he graciously allowed anyone else to follow him.

I can't see how that self-righteous behaviour benefited anyone at all - including himself, as we all took longer to get home. Why do so many German cars seem to give their drivers such an exaggerated sense of undeserved superiority and entitlement? And what would he have done if an emergency vehicle had wished to pass (one police car already had) ?

I've seen this before. It seems unfair that people breaking the law should have an advantage when law abiding citizens (like myself) have to sit there waiting? You are simply breaking the law for personal gain, why can't you queue like the others?

Obstructive driving - drd63
Agreed, but that’s not the point the OP was making. It’s to do with the fact that others are deciding to “self police”. The funny thing is, in this case being done by an Audi driver who ime are more likely to be the perpetrator of poor driving. In our family poor driving normally of an aggressive type is just referred to as “that is so Audi”. Case in point one night last week I overtook Audi RS5 on nsl single carriage way. He came up behind me at roundabout and traffic lights a few miles later in 30mph limit and in an effort to prove how fast his car was shot past and through a red light. Did so good though but what a d***.
Obstructive driving - Avant

"Why do so many German cars seem to give their drivers such an exaggerated sense of undeserved superiority and entitlement?" (OP's question)

Fortunately they're still a small minority, so we don't need to be dramatic about it. The drivers that are that way inclined tend to be company car drivers, showing questionable loyalty to their employer by mistreating the company's asset.

There are many more German cars than there used to be because companies can get good leasing deals on them (largely through better holding of value). 20 years ago these people's predecessors would have been driving Fords and Vauxhalls.

Obstructive driving - drd63

I'm not so sure about the company car point Avant. My experience of poor Audi driving is particularly of S nd RS models which are not company cars, unlike S line models which invariably are and with young blokes in 4. 5. 6 year old cars. I think in part it's the advertising which is very smug, self satisfied and superior and which appeals to a certain type.

Obstructive driving - BMW Enthusiast

Another jealous German car hater.

Obstructive driving - Andrew-T

Another jealous German car hater.

Steve, it's not clear who you are addressing here, and I'm not sure why a hater would be jealous (presumably you mean envious :-) ). If I am your target, if I wanted a German car I might have bought one before now, but I'm quite happy with what I have. Never felt tempted.

Obstructive driving - drd63
Absolutely Andrew T, Steve I’m not sure who this aimed at either but likewise if I wanted a German car I’d buy one. I know many German cars are very good and their manufacturers deserve praise for still offering proper multi (6 and 8) cylinder engines. They just tend to look a bit dull and I really don’t like their marketing message or image.
Obstructive driving - Avant

Auto Steve, please be careful to respect other people's opinions even if they disagree with you. I've had to delete an insult you posted on another thread, aimed at a person who dared to voice an opinion contrary to yours.

SWMBO and I have German cars, and they're the best pair of cars we've had in 50+ years of driving. I would therefore disagree with drd63, but he is as entitled to his opinion as I am to mine, and I respect it completely. And we chose these cars because they're great to drive and they suit our needs, not particularly because they're German.

Obstructive driving - BMW Enthusiast

Fair enough. I too drive a German car and find it and my previous F10 my best cars yet. Not because of the association of the country that the brand is based. My comment was aimed at the person who started the thread. They didn't really have to mention the brand of car involved did they?

Obstructive driving - Andrew-T

My comment was aimed at the person who started the thread. They didn't really have to mention the brand of car involved did they?

No, they didn't. But neither did you have to take it personally?

Obstructive driving - BMW Enthusiast

A bright red Audi (note that)

Why do so many German cars seem to give their drivers such an exaggerated sense of undeserved superiority and entitlement?

What's that then? I rest my case.

Obstructive driving - Andrew-T

<< I rest my case. >>

What case is that?

Obstructive driving - Bilboman

Here's a classic case of obstructive driving. If ever a driver deserved a slap in the face with a wet fish.... www.youtube.com/watch?v=51epGAms9Jc

Obstructive driving - FP

Glad this situation was resolved peacefully, but I would never endorse the idea of going up to another car and opening the driver's door. It's a threatening act that could be the beginning of a nasty road-rage incident.

Obstructive driving - Leif

Here's a classic case of obstructive driving. If ever a driver deserved a slap in the face with a wet fish.... www.youtube.com/watch?v=51epGAms9Jc

Preferably a frozen one. You can see from how the traffic clears that the Kia driver has effectively slowed the passage of cars which would otherwise have got past the congestion in not time at all and that would have helped clear the queue. Stupid and counterproductive behaviour. Typical Korean car driver. ;)

Obstructive driving - Engineer Andy

I just can't stand such idiots like this one - they don't seem to realise that they are contributing to increasing tailbacks by not merging in turn - it would be a different situation if everyone were barrelling ahead at well over 50, but everyone should leave sufficient gaps and keep an eye on the road to let people in, and on the other side of the coin those in the outside lane (if travelling at a decent speed) shouldn't look to 'cut in' at the last moment when a 3 lane road reduces to 2.

At slow speeds as on the clip, people in the outside lane are perfectly acceptable to continue down at a moderate/slow speed if they see everyone slowed up ahead to increase capacity of the road. Too many idiots get in lane way too early (especially on long slip-offs and filter lanes) and then block anyone trying to get in, even several hundred meters before the divergent point. Like this case, I think its often because they see others making progress whilst they aren't, and get a case of jealousy - if I can't go further, no-one else can.

Obstructive driving - Bromptonaut

It's not even as though the lanes are merging for roadworks or something - queues in nearside lanes seem to be down to proximity of junction(s).

Obstructive driving - argybargy

Recently I've noticed more and more examples of drivers moving into a closing second or third lane to stop queue jumpers from bypassing the queues and cutting in. I can only express my appreciation of such behaviour, particularly the one I saw a week or two ago where an aspiring queue jumper felt obliged to drive over a high kerb to pass the blocker and showed his displeasure with a long blast on the horn and a flurry of discourteous gestures. Coincidentally, a BMW driver.

Obstructive driving - Engineer Andy

I think one of the main problems with queue-jumping on motorways at slip roads is that many are way too long on the motorway itself - the M4/M25 (eastbound onto the M25) is well over a mile long, perhaps two, and to me actively encourages everyone to get in a long queue and bunches up, whilst a few try their luck further down (often still several hundred yards away from the chevrons), all the while lanes two and three (fast and middle lane) are essentially empty.

This causes holdups (often several miles back for no reason) due to people driving too close and having to sharply brake or near misses when people in the 'slow lane' can't get in and crawl along the lane hoping someone will let them in, whilst traffic whizzes along at 70+ in the same lane. This happens on a smaller scale near me on the A1 slip on/slip off at Stevenage/Baldock. These sections of road need to be remodelled, perhaps with some to have two slip off lanes, one for a turn left and the other turn right or similar. This often seems to work better as people in the wrong lane seem to be offered more room to get into the correct one.

Some people get into the slip off early then run bumper to bumper so people can't get in from the next lane implying they should've gone right to the back. Daft thing is that doing so causes delays for everyone and has lead to near misses and accidents. Its noticeable that more and more motorists are getting b*****-minded in this regard. Just plain stupid.

Obstructive driving - Andrew-T

Recently I've noticed more and more examples of drivers moving into a closing second or third lane to stop queue jumpers from bypassing the queues and cutting in.

While I can understand the urge to behave in this way, the fact remains that only the police are allowed to 'direct traffic', not any easily-frustrated driver (of which there are many). The way to defeat queue-jumpers is to block them from cutting back in, if that is what they are attempting. And if one does cut back in, the delay that causes is probably less than that created by obstructive blocking.

The red-Audi driver I originally objected to was blocking me (and hence himself and several others) from reaching an exit which was flowing freely. The M6 was not narrowing, it was effectively gaining a lane; traffic was crawling due to an incident a few miles further on.

Obstructive driving - Senexdriver
As an Audi driver, I get fed up with the constant demonisation of fellow Audi drivers and drivers of other prestige German brands. You say that it was an Audi that blocked your progress along the hard shoulder, but you don’t identify the makes of the other cars who preceded you and evidently caused the Audi driver to decide to act as a traffic policeman. Were they also Audi’s, BMWs or Mercs and what make of car do you drive? You were all equally in the wrong, but is the make of car relevant in each case? Presumably only if it’s one of the unholy trinity.
Obstructive driving - FP

"... I get fed up with the constant demonisation of fellow Audi drivers and drivers of other prestige German brands."

It's just a fact of life, it seems.

Whenever I have wished to change my car I have consciously and deliberately ruled out any of the "unholy trinity" of manufacturers. I might well appreciate their supposed driving qualities, but I would not be able to stand the hatred shown towards them by drivers of other marques.

It's probably best not to be drawn into a debate as to whether any of it is justified - you know, the non-functional indicators etc.

Edited by FP on 27/08/2018 at 22:44

Obstructive driving - drd63

Is Audi a prestige brand? Maybe at the top end A7 and A8's where they sit on bespoke platforms but surely the same can't be said of A3, A4 etc when they share so much with VW and decidedly unprestige brands such as Seat.

Obstructive driving - Leif

Is Audi a prestige brand? Maybe at the top end A7 and A8's where they sit on bespoke platforms but surely the same can't be said of A3, A4 etc when they share so much with VW and decidedly unprestige brands such as Seat.

An Audi is as you indicate a VW in a posh frock, or more accurately, with a ribbon in its hair. They spend a lot on advertising to create a prestige brand image, and of course the cars have prominent brand symbols in the form of the Audi badge, and design motifs that make it clear from a distance that it’s an Audi. But is a BMW really any more premium? They have rear wheel drive and more powerful engines, but is the actual body and interior any better?

Obstructive driving - BMW Enthusiast

But is a BMW really any more premium? They have rear wheel drive and more powerful engines, but is the actual body and interior any better?

Yes. But it depends on the model. The current 1 Series and 3 Series are totally outdated and if anyone is considering buying one they should wait for the new models coming soon. It will be interesting to have a drive in the new 1 Series with front wheel drive. Personally I think that it's a bad idea. Torque steer will more than likely be an issue. I'm not a fan of DCT gearboxes which it will probably be getting. I have a 2017 520d SE G30 with a few optional extras and I'm very happy with it. The quality of the interior is excellent (but not seriously luxurious looking in black dakota leather) and the exterior styling and build quality is impeccable. Excluding the depreciation which I don't really care about it's a very cheap car to run. The F10 was a cracking car too. Shame about the outdated dashboard and electronics.

Obstructive driving - Engineer Andy
It's probably best not to be drawn into a debate as to whether any of it is justified - you know, the non-functional indicators etc.

I thought drivers of German cars thought these were one of the many 'optional extras' that weren't worth having...or they thought they were operated via 'mind control' (isn't that what ESP does on cars?).

;-)

Obstructive driving - Andrew-T
As an Audi driver, I get fed up with the constant demonisation of fellow Audi drivers and drivers of other prestige German brands. You say that it was an Audi that blocked your progress along the hard shoulder, but you don’t identify the makes of the other cars who preceded you and evidently caused the Audi driver to decide to act as a traffic policeman. Were they also Audi’s, BMWs or Mercs and what make of car do you drive? You were all equally in the wrong, but is the make of car relevant in each case? Presumably only if it’s one of the unholy trinity.

I didn't have time (or reason) to note the cars which had the opportunity to take a short cut to the exit lane, but I spent several minutes forced to admire the colour and the four chrome rings just a few feet in front of my screen. No doubt it was coincidence that it was an Audi (as is the fact that you drive one). For the record - as regulars on here who bother to read my posts will know - I drive Peugeots.

Obstructive driving - Bilboman

As an Audi driver, I get fed up with the constant demonisation of fellow Audi drivers T
The demonisation of Audi, if that is what it is, began with the sneering, supercilious voiceovers of Geoffrey Palmer in the endless "Vorsprung durch Technik" adverts in the 80s. Four wheel drive became the must-have "accessory", and anything with a Cd larger than 2.0 was a waste of money. Audi buyers didn't really care about Procon Ten (safety was Volvo's thing, a different market altogether).
Audi became the aspirational, superior brand, even bigger and better than the smaller "if only everything in life was reliable as a..." sibling in the VAG stable. In the public's mind, a Passat is good, but an A4 is better; why settle for a Golf, when an A3 is only a few quid more on the never-never? Badge engineering was rife in GM, Rootes and British Leyland decades earlier, but VAG really nailed it with Audi.
Perceptions are all important in marketing and sales (and before we forget, political campaigning!) Witness the plummeting sales of VWs over dieselgate, whilst sales of Audis (many of which share the accursed engines with their "cheating" softtware) go from strength to strength. It is a funny old world.
(P.S. the indicator stalk is the one on the left; it moves up and down...)

Obstructive driving - alan1302

Witness the plummeting sales of VWs over dieselgate, whilst sales of Audis (many of which share the accursed engines with their "cheating" softtware) go from strength to strength. It is a funny old world.

Are you sure about this? From CarSalesBase website:

European VW sales - 2016 - 1.7million. 2017 sales - 1.68million

European Audi sales - 2016 - 0.827milion. 2018 sales - 0.823 million

Obstructive driving - Bilboman

Perhaps "plummeting" was an exaggeration, but I remember reading "dieselgate" articles the year the scandal was revealed which pointed to a dip in VW profits, much more pronounced than in the case of Audi, Skoda and Seat. This from May 2016 (bit.ly/1Xb60FZ)

  • VW-branded cars have been worst-hit by the scandal. Operating profits plunged to €73m from €514m a year earlier. The Audi brand fared better, with sales and profits just slightly below last year’s levels , while Porsche, the Czech brand Škoda and the Spanish marque Seat delivered higher sales and operating profits

Obviously profits do not go hand in hand with numbers of cars sold. We can only speculate what would have happened if the scandal had been branded "VWgate" or "Audigate" rather than "dieselgate"!

Edited by Bilboman on 28/08/2018 at 15:58

Obstructive driving - Senexdriver
As an Audi driver, I get fed up with the constant demonisation of fellow Audi drivers and drivers of other prestige German brands. You say that it was an Audi that blocked your progress along the hard shoulder, but you don’t identify the makes of the other cars who preceded you and evidently caused the Audi driver to decide to act as a traffic policeman. Were they also Audi’s, BMWs or Mercs and what make of car do you drive? You were all equally in the wrong, but is the make of car relevant in each case? Presumably only if it’s one of the unholy trinity.

I didn't have time (or reason) to note the cars which had the opportunity to take a short cut to the exit lane, but I spent several minutes forced to admire the colour and the four chrome rings just a few feet in front of my screen. No doubt it was coincidence that it was an Audi (as is the fact that you drive one). For the record - as regulars on here who bother to read my posts will know - I drive Peugeots.

But I bet you would have noticed had they been models from what I referred to as the unholy trinity. QED
Obstructive driving - Andrew-T

<< But I bet you would have noticed had they been models from what I referred to as the unholy trinity. QED >>

No, you'd better not put too much money down. As a rule I don't take much notice of badges on cars in passing traffic, more their size and colour, and the manner in which they are driven. As for QED, my modest mathematical and Latin training makes me wonder just what was to be demonstrated here?

Obstructive driving - Senexdriver
You noticed the make of the car that impeded your progress, but not of the several cars that followed you illegally down the part of the carriageway that you shouldn’t have been on. QED that you, like so many others, feel a greater compulsion to remark on bad driving when it’s an Audi/BMWMerc
Obstructive driving - FP

In a survey dated January 2018, the drivers of the following were voted the most inconsiderate (in order):

1. BMW M3

2. Range Rover

3. Audi TT

4. Mercedes-Benz C-class

Source: tinyurl.com/y938dfg3

It's all a matter of perception, of course.

Obstructive driving - Leif

<< I rest my case. >>

What case is that?

A nut case?