That whole programme seems to show some strange things. I don't know if it is edited to be dramatic so that they can sell it to TV stations more used to the US versions, or whether things are really like that in Sheffield.
I didn't see this weeks, but prevously it has always felt like they were trying to make the police look bad and the police were helping them.
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>>Rant over and tin hat firmly on head to deflect incoming.
Got a funny idea you\'ll need it...;-)
>>At one point there was a bloke on a trials bike being chased
>>by a car and helicopter. What exactly had the rider done to
>>justify the expense of using a helicopter to chase him?
>>Speeding! Major crime then.
If I remember correctly, Robin, the trials bike rider was speeding, was not wearing a helmet, had no lights on, did not have a rear number plate and was riding a bike not designed or permitted to ride on the roads. Add this to the fact that he was riding like an imbecile and putting people\'s lives at risk and the fact that when he was finally caught up with he had no licence, then I think that the police action that followed was entirely justified. If this had happened near to where you live, Robin, and the police had not given chase causing the biker to smash into your nearest and dearest, seriously injuring or (God forbid) killing them, would you be taking the same line? I doubt it.
>>Contrast this profligate waste of money with single crewing on
>>the ambulance called to the bike accident. No doubt this was
>>some cost cutting exercise.
Apart from the first six words, I agree entirely. Absolutely ridiculous to send out a single-crewed ambulance in that way. It must surely be against guidelines and I\'d have thought that the ambulance service (was it East Midlands????) in question should be subject to an investigation.
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IIRC they said the ambulance was simply passing by, and stopped to assist.
What I found incomprehensible was the jobsworth at ambulance control refusing to allow a copper to drive their vehicle.
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>>IIRC they said the ambulance was simply passing by, and
>>stopped to assist.
If that\'s the case, Frostbite, then I apologise. You are quite right to criticise the eejit at ambulance control, especially as the advanced police drivers are trained to drive ambulances. Perhaps there\'s someone out there who works in a control room and can shed some light?
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As far as I'm aware, the Ambulance service has to take out its own insurance cover. Possibly a Police Officer is not covered, so the control officer may have been covering his own back. If so, I can't say that I blame him. How much longer did they have to wait for the "crewed" ambulance. (I didn't see it).
Reggie
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As far as I'm aware, the Ambulance service has to take out its own insurance cover. Possibly a Police Officer is not covered, so the control officer may have been covering his own back.
Isn't a police officer is allowed to commandeer a vehicle, or is that only a myth?
How much longer did they have to wait for the "crewed" ambulance.
10 mins or more wasn't it?
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I've driven an ambulance from the scene of a fatal RTC. Both paramedics were needed to work on the casualty. No protests from anybody. However, I don't know if they asked their controller for permission or not. Fortunately, common sense ruled.
MLC
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I've been toying with the idea of buying a bike to commute, not any more after seeing this and hearing the ratio of bikers on the road to fatal RTAs.
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The officer who had to abandon the bike when it went rural but still under the eye of the helicopter summed up his opinion of the rider as it disappeared across the field - whoops!!!!!! Did you hear it? I've said it before they 'aint doing them any favours!
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What was it, something like 1% of all traffic, 30% of all fataccs?
I've known 3 people killed and 2 permanently disabled after motorbike crashes, you wouldn't get me on one of them things.
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The possibility that the tractor just pulled out of a field without looking wasn't mentioned.
It seems strange that a bike would run into a tractor for no reason, but I followed a bike to Oulton Park once and he just ran into a Ford waiting at the back of the queue, no brakes, no avoiding action, just ploughed into him. Fortunately the rider was only slightly injured, and the pc that arrived on the scene first gave me a complimentary entry ticket to Oulton for being a witness.
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Nick,our bike man sold one last week, took it for MoT, chatting with another biker, there, who asked to order some parts for him.
Parts came, but the biker died in RTA, same day.
Bits can be returned, but.....
You won't get me on one.
VB
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I wonder what proportion of bike accidents are 'bike hit something' as opposed to 'something hit bike' ?
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"the pc that arrived on the scene first gave me a complimentary entry ticket to Oulton for being a witness."
Bribery?
Tomo
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>>Bribery?
worthless comment ?
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The reality is that if you ride or drive beyond:
1. The ability of the vehicle.
2. The remit of the highway code,i.e. overtaking at a junction, being able to stop safely in the distance you can see ahead that is safe/clear etc etc etc
then you are likely to have an accident sooner or later.
I can assure all of the anti bike brigade, whether through lack of interest in motorcycles or just plain old predjudice, that although you would potentially be at more risk of serious injury in the event of an accident on a motorcycle, it is suprisingly easy to kill yourself in a car. In my job as a Paramedic I go to quite alot of fatalities every year, and touchwood, working on frontline ambulances for 24 years, I have only ever been to one motorcycle fatality (maybe I'm just lucky). I am not now trying to say that you are safer on a motorcycle than in a car, but to see beyond the hype and hysteria that surrounds this subject. If you ride or drive dangerously, you are increasing your chances of having an accident.
To finish my rant, yes , I have ridden motorcycles for 26 years now, usually progressively, and can I say, very briskly where it is safe to do so.
Don't knock it till you've tried it.
Reggie
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As an on/off biker, (don't ride when it's frosty type)I often frighten myself when I think that having arrived at work and walk away from the car, I don't remember that (usually Sainsburys or Tescos) on the way in! Conversely, on the bike, I remember it all, the scared-rabbit look of the school-run mum at that roundabout. The numpty in the Transit that didn't see me, etc. I can truthfully say that I'm more 'with-it' on two-wheels then when I'm in that four wheeled box.
For those who say 'You'll not catch me on two wheels', have you really tried it? Those who ride like tadgers will cop it sooner or later, it's all down to risk. If you take risks i.e. riding round country lanes at speed in late Summer, don't be too suprised when you see one of John Deers finest trundling along the road towards you. If you don't like taking any risks, stay at home and don't get out of bed in the morning. Funny enough, I'm quite prepared to say that at times, you are safer on a bike then in a car.
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"Those who ride like tadgers will cop it sooner or later, it's all down to risk." Yes that much is obvious, but what about the Police instructor shown who went over doing about 10mph slowing down at lights and his wife broke her leg?
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bribery - not from my point of view. A just and welcome reward, although none was needed.
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IIRC they said the ambulance was simply passing by, and stopped to assist. What I found incomprehensible was the jobsworth at ambulance control refusing to allow a copper to drive their vehicle.
Let me explain : the ambulance should not have stopped (against union rules), and no one other than a trained ambulance union authorised driver can drive it. It is just for this reason that during the fire-brigade strike, the vehicles, equipment and fire-stations were treated as if they are owned by the unions! If you go against these union rules, you risk being "sent to Coventry" and the equipment being blacked.
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Not bribery. He had one comp ticket, and the racing had started while I was giving a statement. The PC wouldn't get a chance to see the racing so he gave it to me, possibly because I'd been waiting and missed the start. A reasonable gesture I thought, especially when he apologised for only having one ticket.
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And thats exactly the arrogant outdated attitude thats entrenched in certain sectors these days, fortunately fewer.
Er "equipment owned by the unions". Dont think so. As a public service the equipment is bought and paid for by the rate and tax payer and as a public service their primary duty is to the public.
" Against union rules to stop" thats disgraceful. I'll say no more on that point.
Yes I would agree that an 'off duty' bobby should not drive especially as the injuries were not life threatening . Ultimately there are insurance implications.
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And thats exactly the arrogant outdated attitude thats entrenched in certain sectors these days, fortunately fewer. Er \"equipment owned by the unions\". Dont think so. As a public service the equipment is bought and paid for by the rate and tax payer and as a public service their primary duty is to the public. \" Against union rules to stop\" thats disgraceful. I\'ll say no more on that point.
Full Chat - just in case you did not realise, I fully share your views. It is a pity that the Employers (councils acting jointly, majority Labour) and the Government are not willing to tell them so.
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A belated addition to the earlier comments re a trials bike rider being chased by a helicopter and was it worth the money. Clearly a lot of regulations were being broken but it would be interesting to know what the follow up was. Did it ever come to court, what were the charges and verdict and, if guilty, what was the sentence? A bit of male bonding on a safari trip or perhaps a short community service order painting park fences.
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IIRC, Armitage Shanks, the rider was taken to court but the programme didn't disclose the sentence given to him. I think we can draw our own conclusions from that...
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re a trials bike rider -- it would be interesting to know what the follow up was.
Still have the episode on Video - yes, sad I know, but there's been nothing worthwhile on tv to record over it yet.
Anyway, the trials rider was fined £300.
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I'm afraid I disagree with you M.B.. As an employee of the Ambulance service.
1. I am not aware of rules to say that you cannot stop if you are singly manned. Conversly, you would probably face a gross misconduct charge (if you were identified) if you did not stop. Even the staff that man the patient transport vehicles (outpatients) have a basic first aid qualification, and stop in the area that I work. Also we have singly manned cars in most Ambulance services who respond to all sorts of emergencies (to stop the clock and improve response times).
2.I asked one of our controllers yesterday if he would block a traffic officer from driving an emergency ambulance, and although he wasn't 100% he could not see any objection to it in the appropriate circumstances, as long as it was a traffic officer.
Reggie
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Reggie. I thought as much.
MB has come back and I think we misunderstood him.
As regards driving an ambulance it would be OK until something went wrong and the 9 x 5 shudders got hold of it. Wonder wether you would be covered by Ambulance or Police insurance. At the end of the day the Police are sworn to "protect life and property" so driving an ambulance should fall into that category.
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I think the single crewed ambulance was more to do with response times. the stats will show that an ambulance arrived within the time limit.
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Amazingly, it's the same with First Responders. Even if a volunteer with an automatic defibrillator, bag valve mask and a few other bits responds in their own car it is counted as having met the government mandatory response times!
It's clear why the ambulance services are falling over themselves to set them up. The groups even have to raise money from the *local residents* to pay for the damn equipment!
Gareth (a family member is a FR)
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