|
I suffered a rear end shunt which I am sure would have been a concertina if I hadn't had ABS. Damp motorway, everyone following too close for the speed (as usual). Somewhere ahead brakes go on, then the chain effect, I stopped but watched the (non ABS) car behind me go straight into a skid and stop halfway in my boot. I think with ABS he would have stopped rather than skidded.
|
This reminds me of all the arguments about seat belts when they were first introduced "You are safer sometimes being thrown from the car rather than being trapped etc etc"
There is no doubt ABS is a boon. But it does require old dinasaurs like me to die out first. Having spent much of my youth punting around a Ford Consul 375 on bald tyres at speeds hardly believable for the vehicle, cadence braking became a matter of course and you NEVER NEVER braked and steered.
Now, whilst I know in principle that you can, the first major incident that happened in an abs equipped car (a genuine life-threatener) I just reverted to my training, braked very hard, then came off the brakes, onto the power and steered.
The car and I survived uunscratched, but about two minutes later when the worst of the shakes died down I suddenly realised that I had ABS and could have sorted it out with much less drama.
Rob
|
ABS has saved my life three times (I won't bore you with the details, suffice to say I was being stupid). I will never now drive a car without it.
Does Michael Schumacher need it? No. Do I? Yes.
|
Does Michael Schumacher need it? No.
Yeah, not on his F1 car maybe, but I bet you he has ABS on all his *road* cars and is glad of it too.
Chad.R
|
|
|
|
Actually, at the height of the driver aids boom in F1 he DID have ABS on his race car.
|
|
|
|
|
This is exactly what NHTSA found. Follow my links above and then look for my posts with the links to NHTSAs site.
|
|
Give me ABS anytime. I know all about cadence braking but recently came up behind a car (on a wet and greasy road -50 mph limit, I was below that)) which had decided to turn right into his driveway without indicating and without (as far as I was aware) brake lights. What did I do ? Slammed on the brakes, wheels locked, thought about cadence braking, then thought I daren't release brakes for a second 'cos I can't possibly stop in time if I do and (luckily) slid to a halt about an inch from his bumper. It's all very well talking about cadence braking but in a split second how many of us have the skill (nerve) to do it? Not so bad when you can see a hazard way ahead and do it but in 20 yards, white knuckles and foot hard on brake? Maybe I'm a poor driver - or honest enough to say that I would have preferred the car to do the cadence braking for me!
|
I'm with Richard on this one. I owned ABS cars for 5 years and never, ever needed it. I used to have to find a quiet road occasionally just to see if it was still working! Now I drive 2 cars without it and don't miss it at all. But I think what suits me won't suit everyone. I think this is down to driving style and depends to some extent on what people have honed their skills on. There will soon be a generation who have learned on ABS and expect it, whereas i guess there are many like myself who are pleasantly suprised whenever the brakes pull up properly and drive accordingly. What does concern me though is the possibility of reduced margin for error created by the false belief that ABS can stop a car in a shorter distance - several friends comment how often it kicks in approaching roundabouts etc - IMO this is plain bad driving, placing too much reliance on the brakes and not enough on anticipation and correct reading of the situation.
Baz
|
several friends comment how often it kicks in approaching roundabouts etc - IMO this is plain bad driving, placing too much reliance on the brakes and not enough on anticipation and correct reading of the situation.
I don't think its as simple as that. The ABS on my ex-cavalier used to kick in occasionally approaching junctions which were badly pot-holed. As the car went over the uneven surface, something must have caused the system to cut in. There was no question of me not leaving sufficient time - I was only braking gently on all these occasions. A few times, it left me just a few inches short of the car in front - dangerous, to say the least - what if a pedestrian was crossing?!
However, to answer the thread question, I'm actually for ABS but agree its important to know how it works, and think that there ought to be some place where drivers can do some testing just to practise using it. The point is that ABS can cause braking distances to increase substantially. We need to get more personal control over what ABS does for a car.
Splodgeface
|
>>>>>However, to answer the thread question, I'm actually for ABS but agree its important to know how it works, and think that there ought to be some place where drivers can do some testing just to practise using it. The point is that ABS can cause braking distances to increase substantially. We need to get more personal control over what ABS does for a car.>>>
Excellent point - I'd be very interested in such courses,seing as ABS is pretty much standard kit these days.
Baz
|
You say the "ABS can cause braking distances to increase substantially."
Under what circumstances do you think this applies ??
Regards
Peter
|
Peter D
On snow, ice and gravel.
|
|
Thanks Cyd, The statement was out of context thus the question. It it always nice to be able to switch it off under certain cicumstances however on snow ABS allows the wheels to turn and expose a cleaner tread pattern and allows the snow that was being swept in front of the wheel to be driven over. Difficult to judge when to turn it off in really wintery conditions. Regards Peter
|
>Peter D
>On snow, ice and gravel.
Err 2/3 -
Snow and gravel yes, when braking on snow or gravel, when the wheels lock they build up a wedge of the loose material in front of the locked wheels. This wedge is an aid to braking and locked wheels will pull you up significantly faster.
Ice is different. There is very little between ABS or non ABS on ice. With ABS on ice the ABS kicks in too quickly and pulses too fast, so there is little retardation. With locked wheels there is alomst the same little retardation. The benefit of steering is reduced too on ice. So on ice it makes no odds - its all about balance and weight transfer.
|
>its all about balance and weight transfer.
Bang - shoots oneself in foot should read
Balance and inertia (ie momementum, direction of such and loads of newtons laws on motion)
|
|
If you follow the links I've provided, you'll see NHTSA recommend that all ABS users should practice using ABS in non-emergency driving so they don't panic when they need it suddenly - one of the causes of it's apparent ineffectiveness in cutting road deaths.
Try practicing with it on a quiet road when it's wet.
Just as cadence braking requires a certain degree of skill and practice, so does using ABS.
As for cutting in at junctions, don't forget that it can cut in where the surface is poor or slippy or there is a patch of gravel. Of course, a skilled driver would be looking for these things some might say.
|
|
|
|
|
|
I used cadence braking extensively in my rallying days in the mid 80's to 90's. I used to practice, practice, practice and then practice some more (nearly got kicked out of uni for practicing on the car parks at night!). Nowadays, give me ABS every time, no human can control the brakes as efficiently from his single point of input (the pedal) as ABS can by controlling each wheel independantly.
|
Braking distance with (or without) ABS:
When I was a learner, I was taught to gradually apply brakes, shift weight of the car forward onto the front wheels, before braking as hard as the car/road allows without skidding. This method gives shortest braking distance. That was before ABS.
Now in my first ABS car (QX), in the icy 31/01/03 days, I find that the same physics applies, though I am not surprised. If I jump on the brakes, the ABS switches on very early. If I brakes gradually, I feel the ABS switches on much later and I feel a greater deceleration force.
This is another fact that drivers' training is much more important than driver aid(s).
* The instructor of my sister, who is learning how to drive now, never teaches her any of these driving skills. That's a far cry from 1998 when I learned how to drive, with a different instructor.
Garrison
|
|
In theory none of us need ABS because if we all drove perfectly, there would be no need for any emergency stops. In the real world, however, we might all benefit. Since I've had ABS, I've never used it but I wouldn't be without it.
|
"Since I've had ABS, I've never used it but I wouldn't be without it."
Bit like insurance really, have it, wouldn't be without it, but try quite hard to avoid having to use it in anger[1] as it doesn't always bail you out in a crisis.
[1] anger is not the correct word but rather nice chilean cabernet last night must have zapped a few brain cells!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
