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Thank you chaps!! Yes Mal, it *was* a right old mess. I'm not soley pointing the finger at you - there were others also involved - you know who you are!!
I've just spent 20 minutes of my unpaid time deleting 22 non relevant posts and also tidying this thread up. If it happens again, I shall simply delete the whole thread. If you want to play silly fools, go do it in one of the "Silly Threads" that are currently available. OR even better - email one another.
Apologies if I have accidentally deleted anyone's posts that were relevant to this thread - don't blame me though - blame the people who I HAVE just had to tidy up after.
--
Dynamic Dave
Back Room Moderator
mailto:dave_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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Just to return to the subject of the thread, I take my life in my hands most mornings through no fault of my own. Country lanes, me approaching rh bend, I often seem to meet a car coming in opposite direction driven by younger (note choice of words!) idiot who is doing well over 70 and has no intention of slowing down for the bend. I have driven along this road each day for past 13 years now and I've seen cars upside down, countless cars off the road in the ditches either side, and accidents, a few fatal, galore. You cannot get through to the drivers who just don't seem to appreciate these statistics. If he loses control then I am going to be the victim through no fault of my own.
The police will be aware of the dangers of this road, like many others. It is well used, especially at commuting times. If they are serious about improving road safety and cutting down on deaths how about the following:
*Less money spent on cynical speed cameras
*More money spent on those raod signs which give actual data on accidents along these stretches of roads in the past few years
Lets think about ways and means we can get the dangers of this sort of driving over to any drivers who seem to be oblivious to such problems.
Splodgeface
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There is another side to this which I was on the unlucky receiving end of yesterday. My 19 year old son was giving me a lift home - Saturday afternoon, heavy traffic, long fast (and badly planned) road. He's usually a careful driver, but (and I really, really don't hassle him from the back seat) he gets a bit nervous driving me around - sometimes overcompensating by bolder driving than I think is his norm (I think that's the kindest way of putting it).
Anyway, to keep the story short and sweet, he made an error of judgement on a fast road, fairly minor at first mistaking, but unfortunately an unrelated series of subsequent events - out of his control and committed by older, more experienced drivers - made it worse to the point of dangerous. Luckily he got away with it but he received a few "young idiot baseball cap-wearing driver" glares and gesticulations.
I did of course bend his ear when we got home, and he readily owned up to the fact that the initial mistake was his: I talked him through what had happened and advised him to chalk it up to experience. It's a mistake he won't make again. We've all made mistakes, and it's how we learn to be better drivers. We just hope our mistakes are not tragic, for ourselves and others.
Just thought I ought to balance the discussion.
Carole
PS Yes, he does wear a baseball cap.
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Carole
Without going into any detail on the event how can you say you've offered anything to balance the discussion.
Chris
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Hey not all nova drivers have lots of tacky aftermarket spoilers stuck on their cars and wear baseball caps!! I don't even own a baseball cap and my car has no modifications on it whatsoever! I also drive rather carefully as i'd rather get there a bit late than never at all.
I will admit though "some" younger drivers are very bad and take stupid risks but it seems what to me business man types are the worst in executive saloons as in my experience they always overtake at the first oppurtunity, tailgate and usually have a phone glued to their ear (which is something i hate see) and bizarely the people who to drive the worst aswell are those who don't wear seatbelts! I can only assume they have some misguided belief in being immortal!?
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I agree YSD, nothing is driven worse than a Merc C180 in a solid colour :-) It usually means junior sales manager whose car is chosen because it's a fiver under the £20k budget level and which has to be driven hard to keep up with the schedule he's been given.
I think Chris is being a bit harsh on Carole. Her point is that when young drivers do something that looks stupid, it might be because they lack the experience to work out what's going on, and the situation they're in only becomes dangerous because of the actions of another. Yes, a better driver would have anticipated the situation and not got into it in the first place, but the problem then becomes one of inexperience rather than raging teenage hormonal aggression.
Even so, I'm biased against people who drive in hats, whether baseball caps or trilbies... I like the theory that the hat constricts blood flow to the brain, thus depriving them of oxygen and all skill and judgement.
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I can well remember driving when much younger, and some of the stuff i did makes me cringe now to think of.
As I recall it, the only times when I could be relied upon to drive about in a civilised way were when I had a young lady in the car. I seemed to realise somehow that while my mates might be impressed by fast driving etc, my girlfriend was not. And she wouldn't hesitate to tell me so either.
So there's your answer then. It's not the baseball hats, its the lack of girlfriend.
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Even so, I'm biased against people who drive in hats, whether baseball caps or trilbies... I like the theory that the hat constricts blood flow to the brain, thus depriving them of oxygen and all skill and judgement.
I must confess to sometimes wearing a baseball cap. This is to keep my hair & the sun out of my eyes. Especially useful when I have the window open to keep me alert.
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Hey not all nova drivers have lots of tacky aftermarket spoilers stuck on their cars and wear baseball caps!! I don't even own a baseball cap and my car has no modifications on it whatsoever! I also drive rather carefully as i'd rather get there a bit late than never at all. I will admit though "some" younger drivers are very bad and take stupid risks but it seems what to me business man types are the worst in executive saloons as in my experience they always overtake at the first oppurtunity, tailgate......
Agreed. The worst aggro I used to receive was when I dared to keep up with the outside lane in the Polo/309. How dare I do 90 and flow with the traffic! BMW drivers were the most disapproving drivers...
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The original reason I posted was to get something off my chest, not to point the finger of blame at specific age groups or types of cars. That isn't how i wanted it to come across.
I just have a grudge against boy racers and the way they drive isn't balanced against what little experience they have.
Coming off thread myself, I feel that, like bikes, there should be a maximum engine size and BHP that you can drive for the first couple of years after you pass your test (and you would also be banned for 12 months if you wore a baseball cap) :-)
Chris
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hi guys. just a quick point which i am not sure will go down too well. The way i see there will always be people who will want to drive fast, the same way there will always be people who will smoke. and yes, because of both of them, you might die. However the way the insurance groups are set, it means for a guy like me who is 20 something, the only cars which are affordable are in fact the most unsafe ones, as anything decent will have sky high premiums. For example you mention the Vauxhall Nova, this car if involved in a accident will be foiled like a packet of walkers crisps. If i want to drive my dads car which is very safe (and in fact accelerates less than my car) the insurance is, wait for it £2500 / year. So I have to drive a Citroen AX which in fact is group 6. As i said in the other thread (motoring utopia) every time i drive it i am afraid it will split into two, or the break servo will go or whatever. I think if there was not so much \"hate\" against young drivers, then they would not be so motivated to rebel and act stupid. In Germany on average, they have much faster cars than here, the insurance is on the car not the driver, and they have autobands, still there are less fatalities than here. Lastly i think you lot should be old enough not to stereotype. This image of us all being morons and idiots is not true, and its the case of one fish spoiling if for all. During the past two years my dad has had more scratches on his car than i had on mine, so does that make all dads reckless?
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I agree with you Amin. My insurance was £837 last year, £565 this, on a group 12 (!) car that happens to be 14 years old. I'm 24 and have been driving for 7 years with no convictions or claims, but last year was my first with insurance in my own name. I don't think these premiums are unreasonable but the way I see it is that your first years' premiums, if you are a safe driver, subsidise others and are like an insurance fund that you can draw on in later years and when you are probably not much less of an actual risk.
There are some safe cars that are cheap to insure though; the problem is that they cost more because they're newer. I know that not everyone can spend £10k on a new car, but if you can, a Megane with 5* euroNCAP, free and then group 3 insurance is about as safe and cheap as it gets for a 21 year old.
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\">In Germany on average, they have much faster cars than here, the insurance is on the car not the driver, and they have autobands, still there are less fatalities than here<\"
The Germans have more fatalities. British roads are amongst the safest in the world .......... surprisingly.
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Micky.. last time i checked the stats it was true. Non-the-less what you say might well be true now, in which case my apologies to you and all the backroom contributers for talking out of my back side without checking the data first. If i might say so, all i was trying to say is that forcefully imposing morals on people is not a long term or a short term sucessfull strategy. thanks
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www.general.monash.edu.au/muarc/fatals/fatals.htm
is one link, other sources are available from the Great Google
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British roads are amongst the safest in the world
Those damned non-British roads just don't know how to drive safely do they! :)
Alternatively British drivers are amongst the best in the world. This might sound odd but I believe that our strong anti-drink-driving laws, and the current widely held view that drink-driving is wrong, plays an important role in reducing road deaths.
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