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Up to 2006, the Fiesta 1.4 Tdci didn't have a DPF, so there was quite a wide choice of oils available. The handbook states that a 5w/40 can be used in hotter climates, but as my 2006 Fiesta has done over 180K miles, I have opted to use 5W/40 fully-synthetic oil all year, though I sometime splash out on Mobil 1 0W/40 for a cold winter. Are 5W/40 turbo-diesel oils as difficult to find there as 5W/30?Is there a diesel particulate filter which requires a 'special' oil?
We don't know anything about hot weather over here in Ramsbottom! If it's that hot over there and 5W/40 is hard to come by, then I see nothing wrong with using the best quality you can get of a 10W/40. If oil or air filters are hard to source, then whilst you could make your own air filter, is it not possible to get oil filters from e-bay and imported? Do you get hit with customs duty if you get something sent in from e-bay?
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Done a bit more research--- If it's Euro IV with a Diesel Particulate Filter, it seems you need a 'low SAPS' oil to C1, C2, or C3 specification in order to protect against the DPF blocking too quickly,, and most of those seem to be pretty thin oils.
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Why do people think they can do better than a major manufacturer like Ford.
Ford have spent millions of pounds and 10's of thousands of hours on the dyno and on the road testing various specs of oil before deciding on the correct one for thier engines. The engines are dismantled and inspected for wear and the enmission systems are checked for sludge etc.
Just driving a few thousand miles will prove nothing.
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Nope no DPF.
Until Euro 3, the engine was imported from UK but for E-IV, they started making/assembling it in India itself. I suspect they tinkered with the EGR and intake manifold more and made it (more) complex.
The wiki page about the DPF in the E-IV is not applicable to India; i have heard from Ford itself that there is no DPF in India specific E-IV version and it can be seen that there is no DPF after that cat-con cylinder.
Yes, 5W40 is available from Castrol, Selenia and Shell in India. I guess it is fully synthetic, so perhaps using that i can extend the oil service interval to 10k or even 15k km?
Other parts are easily available- sakura oil filter and ford spec(or even better) air filters.
Yes, Ford would have done millions of km test drives, but suggesting the same spec oil for UK and India? That would point to the economy of volumes; seriously, it is not my(and others) over-smartness but the mechanical empathy i have for this small engine when it cries it's lungs out on the highway for lack of better lubrication.
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but the mechanical empathy i have for this small engine when it cries it's lungs out on the highway for lack of better lubrication.
If you honestly think that changing the oil to a non Ford spec will make your car run better you are clearly not thinking through the issues. If its running porrly there is a fundamental problem with the engine.
Yes, Ford would have done millions of km test drives, but suggesting the same spec oil for UK and India? That would point to the economy of volumes
Ford, like all manufacturers test in all climates. Sometimes they specify different oils for different countries/climates. If Ford needed to do this for the Fiesta TDCi they would. Having different oils in different countries where necessary adds nothing to the manufacturers costs.
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See Mr Eckerslike's post above - the hanbook permits 40 weight oil in hotter climes.
With a minimum ambient temperature of 20C, it must be irrelevant whether it's 5W or 10W.
Re-reading the thread, it seems the concern is that the oil is not lasting.
3 options -
- try better stuff if you can find it - same spec but higher quality
- try thicker stuff (5W40 or 10W40)
- change it more frequently
or try a combination of two or all three of those.
If the standard oil is cheap then I just do more changes.
I don't suppose the engine itself runs much hotter in India than it does in UK, once it's up to temperature and assuming the engine isn't overheating. It will also have the benefit of never having clap cold oil.
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Oil of the same spec is pretty much the same regardless of manufacture, so comma is more or less the same as Shell oil. The less being shell may have more additives.
It’s assumed by many that oil degrades in the engine and hence you need to change it. What actually happens is that contaminates build up in the oil effectively diluting it. This especially noticeable in diesel engines.
To make us believe one car is cheaper to service than another, manufacturers work out the absolute max mileage they can go between services with the car falling apart to soon.
So rather than using better oil that really won’t help you, changing the oil more often, every 6000K miles would be optimal.
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I agree with that. I change the oil and filter in my Fiesta 1.4Tdci twice a year, which is roughly 6000 miles between changes.
One contributor above has found the 'Triple Q' 5W/40 from Eurocarparts which seems the cheapest fully synthetic you can get and come with your choice of oil filter. I got some and at that price I did an extra oil change! As you say, the big problem with a diesel is the build up of contaminants - and the EGR has a lot of blame for that.
My regular choice of oil for my high-milage diesel is Comma 'Syner-D' 5w/40 fully synthetic. But it's expensive and my pension isn't a right lot.
With no DPF, our Ford fan in India has a better choice of oils. I would say - use a 5w/40 fully synthetic and change every 6k miles. Do not extend the oil change interval on these engines! They don't like it! They don't rightly like thick oils, neither.
Have you noticed this little factoid about oil changes on the 1.4Tdci? --
The oil filter housing has one of those sizes where either an old Imperial 1-1/16" A/F or its metric equivalent of 27mm will fit.
The oil drain plug comes out with a spark plug socket - one of the big ones for 14mm spark plugs.
Strangely, the sun is shining in Ramsbottom today. And I'm under the car trying to find out how to remove the auxiliary belt and alternator, because my alternator has just failed at 185K miles. Proper miffed I am.
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The oil filter housing has one of those sizes where either an old Imperial 1-1/16" A/F or its metric equivalent of 27mm will fit.
Be very careful giving advice like that. Some time ago I was involved in the Kit car scene and most cars of the period used Ford X-Flow engine with the traditional 3/4" thread. Due to their compact size a vast majority of people used the old Renault 4 or 5 filter which had the same imperial thread. But unknown to Kit car people at large Renault changed to a metric 20mm thread back in the early 80's and only years later did the imperial filter get deleted from the supplier catalogues. Owners kept buying the "Renault" filters and a spate of failures started occuring where the filter came off normally at high revs and mostly on track days.
One clever owner spotted what no one else had spotted, the 20mm filter would fit and tighten onto the 3/4 thread perfectly but was not secure enough once under pressure.
Whilst some owners managed with some difficulty to source the Renault filter with the correct tread others changed the threaded spiggot on the car to metric enabling them to use the newer metric filter. The sensible owner simply used the early Ford Ka filter, slightly bigger than the Renault one but way smaller than the OEM filters and readilly available with the 3/4" thread.
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Well pointed out Thunderbird. Never mix your screw threads when a metric nut seems to fit on an Imperial thread! It might seem to, but it won't! (Though I have used Whitworth on UNC and vice-versa when I've been stuck).
What I was pointing out is that on this engine, there are a few hexagon sizes where the metric size has a direct A/F inch-size equivalent. For instance, if you were to buy a set of spanners of both metric and Imperial sizes, there will most likely be no 16mm spanner, because the 5/8" A/F is the same size, as I've found out whilst taking me alternator off!
So this PSA-designed engine has been thoughtfully set up so that you can do an oil and filter change if you have an (old-fashioned?) Imperial tool set or a metric set. There will be, of course, a spark-plug socket in each (which fits the sump plug).
The oil filter on the 1.4Tdci is an unusual design. It is a paper element in an alloy housing which sticks up at an angle from the side of the engine. It looks like a little squat bottle with a hexagon cap, and it's this cap which takes the 1-1/16" = 27mm socket.
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Our friend from India----
There are one or two things that you can do to help the noise problem on a 1.4 Tdci. The air pipe from the front grill to the back of the air filter must be firmly connected to front cross-member and the joints between the sections must be firm and the connection between the pipe and the back of the air filter must be firm. A lot of noise (I found) can be generated if the air pipe is loose on the back of the air filter.
Have you checked the gearbox oil? Often overlooked! Get the car level where you can reach under the front bumper. Unclip the plastic shield from the front of the gearbox and look for a hexagon-socket screw. Remove this screw with a (If I remember correctly) a 8mm hexagon wrench. It's a level plug, so pour some gearbox oil, 75W/90, into a pump-action oil can and squirt it in until the oil starts to run out. Replace the plug -tight. Job done.
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Air filter connections are tight.
Here Ford says that gearbox oil is filled for lifetime; since car is fairly new(2.5 years / 35,000 km) i don't think they need replacement so early considering that it is synthetic oil that is filled.
The noise i was originally referring to is the tappet noise from the head as if it is being starved of oil. Hence asked about any better oil for better lubrication.
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The previous ford i owned is a version of fiesta with 1.8D (non-turbo) engine. I used 2T oil with the diesel and it worked wonders to engine smoothness. Wary of trying the same in the tdci engine!
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The noise i was originally referring to is the tappet noise from the head as if it is being starved of oil. Hence asked about any better oil for better lubrication.
Many people in the past have thought that using a thicker oil will stop tappet noise, totally wrong.
Ford specified a 5w30 oil because in early DOHC Zetecs the 10w40 they originally specified was too thick to circulate (especially when the engine was cold) and caused noisy tappets and acclerated wear of those components. They admitted it was a bodge but it was a bodge that has stood the test of time, over 20 years and that viscocity oil is used in most modern Fords to this day..
That is why you are being warned not to use a spec that Ford do not recommend, they know a thing or 2 about their engines and what oil makes them work best.
Only cure for noisy tappets is either get them shimmed (if mechanical) or replaced if hydraulic. Not sure which the 1.4 TDCi uses.
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Ford no longer specify 5W/30 for most of their engines;it's now 5W/20.And has been for about 2 years.Even Halfords now stock it.
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Ford no longer specify 5W/30 for most of their engines;it's now 5W/20.And has been for about 2 years.Even Halfords now stock it.
Just done a bit of Googling and discovered the following:
5w20 is indeed a current Ford spec but only for the new Eco boost engines. The Ford spec number is WSS-M2C-948-B.
The correct spec for most Ford engines is WSS-M2C-913-C which is a 5w30 fully synth oil. This replaced the earlier WSS-M2C-913-B spec which was a semi synthetic. There is also a new WSS-M2C-913-D spec which came out in about 2012, still a 5w30. These specs are backwards compatible enabling older vehicles to use the newer spec oils. Obviously if your engince requires the new D spec using the earlier C or B spec would be daft or dangerous.
Some sources say that the WSS-M2C-948-B is suitable to use in the 1.25, 1.4 and 1.6 petrol engines but no mention of this on the official Ford site. No mention anywhere of this being sutable for diesels.
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Some sources say that the WSS-M2C-948-B is suitable to use in the 1.25, 1.4 and 1.6 petrol engines but no mention of this on the official Ford site. No mention anywhere of this being sutable for diesels.
You only have to look at the specs. If it says A5/B5 then it is suitable for petrol and diesel engines.
A - Petrol engines
B - Diesel engines
E - Diesel engines (heavy duty).
Edited by Wackyracer on 07/07/2014 at 13:18
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I wasn't saying to replace the gearbox oil.. just to check the level. It can go down, so don't just trust to it being filled for life.Had to pump quite a bit into mine when I first checked it at about three years old.
What sounds like tappet noise on these is often injector noise. The tappets are hydraulic and in general make no noise. A leaking injector seal can make a very noisy tapping noise.
It's injector noise that comes back up through the air filter if there are any gaps or looseness in the air pipe up to the back of the filter, which is why I suggested checking the air pipe and its connections, especially the join at the back of the air filter assembly. And ensure that the little plastic box on the front grill end of the air pipe is screwed firmly to its housing. If that one screw comes out and the end of the air pipe is vibrating around behind the grill, it can cause all sorts of bad running as pulses of air go up the pipe!
I run mine with the 200:1 dose of two stroke oil. Modern diesel is low in sulphur and hence has had some of its lubricating property removed. The 2T oil does seem to give smoother running and less smoke. However, 2T oil is generally quite expensive and the cheapest I can get is from Morrisons supermarket at £2 for 500ml. I've been using it for two years now.
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I'm interested in more detail about adding 2-stroke oil to diesel in the Fiesta 1.4 tdci.
cheers
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I'm interested in more detail about adding 2-stroke oil to diesel in the Fiesta 1.4 tdci.
It should be a low ash oil meeting NMMA requirements for TC-W3 (or iso GB, JASO FB or higher). People use it as an upper cylinder lubricant in petrol engines too.
Fuel economy benefits are claimed, but are of course unproven.
Its used at high dilutions, say 1:500 or higher, where it shouldn't have much impact on exhaust catalysts or mixture in petrol engines.
In a diesel I suppose you could use it at any dilution you wanted to afford.
In a diesel I'd think the main benefit (if any) might be to improve fuel pump lubrication.
Edited by edlithgow on 05/12/2018 at 00:00
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late to the party regarding heavier oil for the Fiesta 1.4 tdci engine but I too am now going down the same road.
I have a 2002 Fiesta 1.4tdci with 220,000 on the clock, runs like a dream and uses no appreciable amount of oil. She's breathing a little now and getting a little noisier so I too am considering a 5w40.
The 1.4 tdci (as denoted by Ford) is the DLD-414 engine built in equal numbers between Ford and PSA. It was fitted to a number of cars by Ford/Citroen/Peugeot/Mazda/Suzuki/Toyota; see link: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_DLD_engine
Ford are the only manufacturer using this engine to specify a 5w30 using their own WSS-M2C913-B (a spec which covers a number of unrelated diesel engines) whereas all other manufacturers specify a 5w40 using ACEA A3/B4 conformity (look up a few cars for sale with these engines and use the reg numbers in an oil supplier website and you'll see what I mean).
The difference between Ford and all the other manufacturers in their oil spec seems to have little logic unless maybe??? 1) Ford got the mpg down by using a ligher oil 2) Ford attempted to standardise their diesel engine oils 3) there is something unique about the Fiesta installation.
To further muddie things, WSS-M2C913-B and ACEA A3/B4 are quite different specs.
As you can see, I've done quite a bit of my own research on the subject and been in contact with 2 respectable oil specialist today and eventhough I noted the oil being used by all other manufacturers is different to Ford with this exact engine they were both unwilling to deviate from the Ford specification.
Have any of you guys here managed to work through this and still have good engines after doing the 5w40 swap?
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It’s assumed by many that oil degrades in the engine and hence you need to change it. What actually happens is that contaminates build up in the oil effectively diluting it. This especially noticeable in diesel engines.
Both these things happen.
To be an explanation of your reported symptoms, the "contaminates" would have to be fuel dilution, which would reduce the viscosity of the oil.
Soot is the characteristic contaminant of diesel engine lubricant, and it wouldn't be expected to reduce the viscosity, though it can promote wear.
You may be able to get some indication of oil condition, particularly fuel dilution, with a crude chromatographic test. comparing new and used oil.
Look up "blotter spot test" on the Internyet
Alternatively, you MAY be able to send an oil sample to a commercial lab for analysis (maybe not in India) though that is likely to cost as much as an oil change.
From the expert opinions expressed here, it seems likely that your symptoms are mechanical, but if you want to follow up the oil angle I'd suggest you consider posting on the US-based Bob Is The Oil Guy forum (I'm afraid it really is called that).
There's some expert industry opinion on there, though of course there's quite a lot of Good 'ol Boy inexpert opinion as well.
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Ford, like all manufacturers test in all climates. Sometimes they specify different oils for different countries/climates. If Ford needed to do this for the Fiesta TDCi they would. Having different oils in different countries where necessary adds nothing to the manufacturers costs.
I understand Ford (and other manufacturers) often spec. lower viscosity oils in the United States than they do in, for example, Europe or Australia. This is likely to be more due to the regulatory climate rather than the...er...climatic climate.
In the US they have for many years had to meet CAFE average fleet economy targets or face financial penalties, and using skinnier oils has helped them to do that..
Improving fuel economy slightly at the expense of a slight increase in wear is a reasonable compromise from most owners perspective as well, since most cars are scrapped for reasons other than engine wear.
However, if you want to bias the compromise more toward protection, say for an unusually old car that doesn't do a lot of miles,(me), or due to an excess of mechanical sympathy (the OP) thicker oil may be indicated .
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