From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - oldroverboy.

Placing mobile speed cameras on stretches of road without a history of frequent accidents is like "shooting fish in a barrel", one of the country’s most senior police officers has admitted.

The Association of Scottish Police Superintendents (Asps) suggested tactics such as parking mobile camera vans on a bridge above stretches of motorway, such as the M9 approaching Stirling, is more likely to raise money than save lives.

Chief Superintendent David O'Connor, the organisation’s president, said speeding is dangerous but it was time to review how mobile cameras are used.

Figures released by Police Scotland last month revealed that mobile speed cameras earned a total of £2.75 million in 2012/13 compared to £1.5 million generated from fixed cameras.

Critics claim the location of mobile speed cameras on motorways and dual carriageways is primarily a revenue-raising exercise. There are more than 500 mobile cameras operating on roads north of the Border,Ch Supt O’Connor said placing cameras on motorway bridges was like "shooting fish in a barrel" because of the number of vehicles driving under them at close to or over the limit.

"We need to make sure that the public perception of speed cameras is not that it is all about making money. Of course speeding on the motorway is dangerous, but these are not accident black spots,” he told Scotland on Sunday.

"There must be more flexibility and maybe it's time to review safety cameras and how they're located across Scotland."

He said he also wants speeding motorists to be offered safer driving courses as an alternative to fines and points on their licenses, arguing the emphasis should be on “education as well as enforcement”.

But he said the police have diminishing influence in local camera safety partnerships, which oversee speed camera use but also include council and health representatives.

Scotland’s most lucrative mobile camera site is the A9 Edinburgh to Perth Road, on the northern outskirts of Dunblane, where it crosses Allan Water.

Some 4,217 drivers were caught in the last financial year, paying a total of £253,020 in fines. The next most-ticketed spot for mobile cameras was the A74M northbound at junction 13 where 3,163 drivers were caught paying £189,780.

Alex Johnstone, Scottish Conservative transport spokesman, blamed the camera safety partnerships, adding: “If speed cameras were designed to save lives, we'd place them outside schools and in other built-up residential areas.

"Instead, they're situated where these partnerships know they can get the most money from them. Our motorways and dual carriageways are actually the safest types of roads. That's proof that cameras are not there to make roads safer, they exist to hit motorists in the pocket."

A spokesman for Transport Scotland, a Scottish Government quango, said: “New fixed and mobile camera sites must meet criteria based on accidents, casualty histories and levels of speeding.

“Once a site is established. levels of enforcement and other operational decisions are made by the partnerships themselves."

Police Scotland said there had been no change in the arrangements, but disclosed a review had been launched into where cameras are located.

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - groaver

If you do not speed, you will not be caught!

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - KB.

Can someone just check my halo please. I think it's OK but I like to be sure.

I remember once hearing an interview on the radio - (must have been some banal phone in or somesuch) .... a bloke steadfastly and adamantly claimed he had never, ever exceeded the speed limit whilst driving. He was deadly serious. Never, EVER exceeded the speed limit in his entire life.

I honestly don't believe there can be a single individual, who drives a car/van /lorry....even a bicycle, who hasn't allowed their vehicle (OK, maybe the cyclist can claim exemption) to exceed a speed limit - by one mph even - coz even one mph is illegal if we're gonna be pedantic.

I don't have any points, speeding or otherwise, so aren't coming at this as Mr Bitter from Berkhamstead. But you're a brave man (or an extrememly exceptional man who has genuinely never exceeded any speed limit, ever) to put himself on a pedestal and self righteously / sactimoniously preach at others.

Edited by KB. on 23/02/2014 at 16:01

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - groaver

I wasn't preaching. I have sped and been lucky enough not to have been caught but anyone who thinks that speed cameras are an unnecessary evil can prevent themselves from being "flashed".

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - KB.

No, I still take issue with your opening post.

I, personally, don't believe speed cameras are an unnecessary evil. (I don't believe parking restrictions are either as it happens). Doesn't mean I like them either but accept them to be a deterrant to a lot of routine speeding (and all day clogging up of streets and carparks), albeit not ideal, but nothing is ideal. I'm not saying that all speed limits are correct or appropriate to their circumstances but know full well that they keep speed down in certain circumstances and, in the case of, say, the M25, are designed to prevent bunching and see-sawing of the traffic by trying to maintain an element of constancy. (Even if they HAVE been switched off for past X number of years with no-one realising it)

But you've taken the trouble to post - simply and starkly, with no further qualification - that if you don't exceed the limit you won't get flashed. And, of course, you won't! But I stand by my assertion that it is self righteous and sanctimoneous to blandly make such a simple statement with no further clarification or illustration of what's in your mind given that I would maintain that it is impossible for a driver to religiously and unwaveriingly ensure that he doesn't, EVER creep over the limit due to his attention being diverted for just a moment in time, and in doing so render himself liable to a ticket.

You've said you have sped yourself so I would be very surprised, IF you were to momentarily transgress and get flashed at 33 in a 30, that you didn't feel slightly aggrieved at getting done when you, almost invariably, stick to the limits and how unfair it was that, on the one occasion you crept over, you got done. Tell me I'm wrong. If i am, I apologise.

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - Hamsafar

A problem with speed cameras is that they are used to enforce rediculous new limits which were introduced to facilitate the use of the cameras. What's more, many of these limits were introdcued unlawfully, as the legally required prerequisites were not met before the restrictions were introduced.

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - Armitage Shanks {p}

If legally required prerequisites were not met resulting penalties would be illegal and unenforceable, wouldn't they?

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - Hamsafar

If legally required prerequisites were not met resulting penalties would be illegal and unenforceable, wouldn't they?

And indeed they are, sometimes. Sadly, only footballers and the like can afford a defense and so most people just pay £80 and work a way of getting it back by petty fraud or such like.

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - groaver

I have been flashed doing over 30 in 30 zone. I got away with it. I was lucky.

I still say that we cannot say we aren't warned. They may well just be money makers but there is a way to stop that.

No need to apologise for anything. We all have differing views, if we all agreed then the world would be a far nicer place. ;)

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - artill

Laws only really work when the public are behind them. If only a few people get done for speeding the majority think thats OK (is it always OK if its always someone else getting caught?). If everyone who broke the limit got done, we wouldnt accept it.

And when we learn that those in power are using their power to enforce the law, not for good, but to raise money we lose faith in the system. I would return all poweres to deal with speeding to the police, and scrap the camera partnerships which to me just seem to be in business for them selves.

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - Happy Blue!

"Laws only really work when the public are behind them"

Exactly. If the public are not behind then you end up eventually with the extreme example of Ukraine. I am not saying governments get kicked out becuase of speed limits, but if government starts at imposing ridiculous speed limits and then takes things further with other laws that make regular acts into criminal acts, then you end up with a police state (as Ukraine was until yesterday) and that leads to anarchy.

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - Smileyman

We need to raise speed limits and explain why the selected limits were set as such - then use cameras to enforse intelligent well considered limits - the selection panel needs to include motoring representatives who understand the needs of motorist - not lowering limits causing misery for motorists and comtempt for the law

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - alan1302

We need to raise speed limits and explain why the selected limits were set as such - then use cameras to enforse intelligent well considered limits - the selection panel needs to include motoring representatives who understand the needs of motorist - not lowering limits causing misery for motorists and comtempt for the law

Surely if you want to enforce 'intelligent well considered limits' then you need to allow for some lower speed limits as well?

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - galileo

30 mph limits were introduced in 1930, when many cars had only cable operated drum brakes, probably some were still in use that only had rear wheel brakes. Tyres,brakes,suspensions, steering, lights and handling were far inferior to modern vehicles.

It is therefore possible that some 30 limits could be reviewed and increased with no significant increase in risk. Many previously NSL roads have had 50 and 40 mph limits imposed in recent years, almost always accompanied by 'safety' cameras, which some cynical people regard as money making schemes.

Now, in addition to speed humps, pinch-points and other features designed to slow traffic, 20 mph limits are proliferating.

Where speed limits seem appropriate for the type of road and roadside environment, most users will comply; problems arise when a limit is perceived as unrealistic/unnecessarily low, these are where the richest haul od speeding fines are levied.

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - oldroverboy.

Where speed limits seem appropriate for the type of road and roadside environment, most users will comply; problems arise when a limit is perceived as unrealistic/unnecessarily low, these are where the richest haul of speeding fines are levied.

Nail hit on head!

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - Snakey

Shooting fish in a barrel?

Its not like plod to shoot innocent people is it....

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - galileo

Shooting fish in a barrel?

Its not like plod to shoot innocent people is it....

Study reports of cases where plod shot someone and the impact points on the victim are often quite a distance apart (arm, leg, chest, someone else).

Under the stress and adrenaline of having a live and possibly armed target I can understand that the results are not always as neat and tidy as one would wish.

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - focussed

I have made this following comment for many years about fixed speed cameras, mobile speed camera vans disguised in horse boxes etc and lurking officers with radar/laser guns:-

When I see or hear one of the above being deployed outside of or on the approaches to a school, a hospital or an old folks home to improve safety - then I will acknowledge that they are necessary for the puposes of improving road safety instead of enforcing badly thought out limits for the purpose of raising billions of pounds of revenue.

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - Snakey

I find it difficult to believe that anyone thinks that mobile cameras are anything other than money machines. I've nothing at all against them being used as a deterrent, but thats not the case in nearly all of the locations I see them in are simply sneaky.

They are place in hidden spots, tucked away and often in a transition area (like a 30 leading to a 40) so the chance of 'catching' you are much higher - after all, apart from the insanely self righteous mob, who hasn't crept above 30 before you have actually left the 30 zone? And I'm not talking about silly stuff but as you move from a 30 zone to a 40 or 60 you naturally let the car's speed creep up.

I've said on here before I work in a school on a busy road. The cash van is often here, but a long distance down the road from the school - hidden where the 30 limit turns into a 40 - so you can go past the school as fast as you like and they will catch you as you are slowing down for the roundabout, but possibly still going above 30. Stick that van in a nice visible spot near the school and you have my full support, but of course that won't generate any revenue will it.

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - Sofa Spud

Drivers who habitually break speed limits tend to do that wherever they are, so whether the police use cameras on a clear, straight road or outside a school at finishing time, they will be catching the same types of driver.

QUOTE:.."30 mph limits were introduced in 1930, when many cars had only cable operated drum brakes, probably some were still in use that only had rear wheel brakes.""

Braking technology might have improved since 1930 but the eyesight, reaction time and road sense of pedestrians has not. 30mph is quite fast enough for street traffic in towns, thank you very much.

Edited by Sofa Spud on 26/02/2014 at 18:38

From The telegraph - Police admit using mobile speed cameras are 'like - oldroverboy.

A lot of the town here close to schools and quite a few of the residential areas are now limited to 20mph, fair enoughski, but the constant variation is poor. within a mile or so 30-20.30.20 30 40 30 (or the reverse. Crazy!

The " camera "is usually parked on a downhill bit before a dip depending on the direction of travel. (where it is easy to slip a bit over the limit)

i don't mind as i try very very hard to obey the urban limits very strictly nowadays, but the camera is not close to the schools

 

Value my car