What do you have to do to avoid a money pit?

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Mon 7 Nov 2016 19:47
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - Fishermans Bend

There has been much written on this forum about older cars being a money pit. How new do backroomers feel buyers need to go to avoid to a 'money pit'?

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Mon 7 Nov 2016 20:15
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - madf

Avoid French cars.

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Mon 7 Nov 2016 20:15
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - oldroverboy.

Korean or japanese and under warranty.

When warranty expires it is no longer my problem.

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Tue 8 Nov 2016 07:30
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - NARU

Korean or japanese and under warranty.

When warranty expires it is no longer my problem.

I agree with the Korean or Japanese part. And if you choose wisely, you can run well beyond the warranty period.

We ran a Jazz to 8 years, and a Landcruiser to 9 years quite happily.

Currently have a Yaris (3 years old), an MX-5 (5 years old) and a Sorento (a few months). We'll review each as they age - if they look like causing problems we'll move them along.

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Mon 7 Nov 2016 20:27
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - gordonbennet

It would take many column inches to answer this fully.

Much depends on the owners/buyers mechanical competence, the right owner can keep the right car going almost indefinately for very little cost, our very own JohnF an authority on this.

The sweet years IMHO are from the mid 80's through to about 2005, though depending on make this can be +/- a few years either way, many makers most respected and revered cars and engines come from this period, remember a 2005 built car might well be a mid 90's design.

2005 is roughly my cut off point, and i've just replaced my year 2000 Landcruiser with a year 2005 one, not for any particular reason other than when a good one of these comes up you have to buy the thing there and then because it will be gone in hours if you don't, if it was a 2006 it would be £515 VED and i'm not giving the govt that to throw away on their latest vanity project, so for my chosen cars 2005 is as new as poss anyway.

For those who are not mechanically minded then i would say probably 15 years is near enough as old as it wise to go, we're into bangernomics then which is arguably the most economical and worry free of all motoring, you can buy quite decent mid/large cars for peanuts which have been well looked after for a mx of £1000 and often 1/3rd of that, if you choose well you might get anything up to 5 years before anything major goes wrong.

The problem for many people is image, for various reasons they can't be seen in old vehicles (unless its classed as retro or has a scene) so bangernomics or running older but well mainteined cars is not an option for them.

Edited by gordonbennet on 07/11/2016 at 20:28

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Mon 7 Nov 2016 21:12
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - SLO76
Buy the best maintained car you can afford, avoid anything that hasn't proof of annual servicing and look for longterm previous ownership. If the car has had a lot of owners then they've not been happy with it. Avoid anything that's been owned for less than two years unless they've a very good reason and proof.

But above all remember these three words... keep it simple. If you're shopping on a budget and unless you're looking at new or nearly new then avoid modern diesels unless you're doing a huge mileage to warrant the extra risk/cost v economy.

Don't look at a complex turbo diesel car at £2,000 with a six figure mileage and think that it'll be reliable and cost effective, it almost certainly won't. Instead buy a mainstream petrol family hatch that's easy to maintain, cheap for parts and there's unlimited choice of when buying.



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Mon 7 Nov 2016 21:49
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - Terry W

Buy a fairly basic car nearly new - up to a year old with minimal mileage (less than 15k). Avoid high spec models due to cost and as there is more to go wrong Everything should be covered for 3-7 years depending on make.

Trade in when it starts costing money. Given that you will know it has been serviced, driven with restraint etc, you should get 6 to 8 years out of it even doing a fairly high mileage. At this age lots can potentially start to fail - electric motors of all sorts, suspension/steering bushes, shocks, battery, clutch etc.

Last car was 2L Mondeo diesel. Sold after 6 years with 140k on the clock, air con compressor going, needed four tyres and a service. Cost me about £1k a year in depreciation and no repairs bar basic servicing.

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Mon 7 Nov 2016 21:59
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - focussed

Buy a nearly-new Japanese made car - pay to extend the makers warranty, sell it privately with a year's transferable warranty left to get a good price.

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Tue 8 Nov 2016 08:35
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - sandy56

Pick the best car for the price- low mileage, if possible, with full service history. Avoid German VW, see HJ for stories.

My 7 year old Peugeot diesel estate car has cost nothing more than normal servicing. When time comes I will probably get another Peugeot, but as I said, get the best car you can find for the money- petrol probably.

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Tue 8 Nov 2016 08:39
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - John F

How new do backroomers feel buyers need to go to avoid to a 'money pit'?

The possibility of huge bills is not necessarily related to how old a car is. Far more important is the choice of a reliable powertrain (engine/gearbox), a history of unproblematic electrics and your preventive maintenance of corrodible bits as it gets older. Plus an element of luck, as any machine can break unexpectedly.

If you do a large mileage, nearly new is probably the best bet. If only a few thousand a year then buy a reputable high miler at around 4yrs old.

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Tue 8 Nov 2016 10:11
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - argybargy

I'd like to go much newer but can't afford to.

However, I was once told by a mechanic that the increasing proliferation of pricey sensors and other such mumbo-jumbo under the bonnets of modern cars, and particularly diesels, makes out-of-warranty expense potentially catastrophic.

So from this point on I'd be far less likely than I once was to buy anything that doesn't have the decent balance of a manufacturer's warranty.

And I'd do plenty of research on the car, warranty and dealer first.

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Tue 8 Nov 2016 10:50
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - SteVee

>>How new do backroomers feel buyers need to go to avoid to a 'money pit'?<<

You can't be sure of avoiding a money pit - all you can do is to get rid of it quickly when it becomes apparent that you've bought a lemon. You can't avoid it by buying particular makes or new or old.

The worst money pit I ever bought was brand new, with a good warranty and a good dealer; it was just a horrible car which I kept for far too long. I will never buy that make again, new or s/h.

The best was one I bought as a short-term 'get-by' type car. It was 7 years old, had a hard life and little or no service history - but it was in daily use. 9 years later I still have it, and it's been a pleasure to own. I just wish I'd bought it brand new instead of that other car.

The other car we have is an 11-year old Clio, which has been reliable, but not quite as cheap to own as my older car; I'd certainly consider another petrol Renault.

I'm looking to replace one or both soon, and will probably look to Kia / Hyundai, just on their warranties, and the dealers want to sell me a road vehicle, not a financial product.

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Tue 8 Nov 2016 11:41
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - John F

............... and will probably look to Kia / Hyundai, just on their warranties, and the dealers want to sell me a road vehicle, not a financial product.

The trouble with 'warranties' is that they are in themselves financial products. I have never had one, but I think they usually require the car to be presented for a 'service' every year, the providers of which are past masters of work creation and cost inflation.

The longer the warranty, the more one has to stump up for these annual expensive and often unnecessary interventions. Replacement of fluids that don't need replacing and brake pads and discs with thousands of miles wear left all generate much cash for the business, paid for by the unfortunate warranty holder who is not in a good position to negotiate with the mechanic about the extent of the 'service', especially if how to turn a tap on and off is the extent of their mechanical knowledge.

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Tue 8 Nov 2016 12:34
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - RichardW

It always seems odd to me that the answer to the question "how do I potentially avoid spending a lot of money on an older car?" is "Definitely spend a lot of money on a new car"!!

Me, I prefer to take the former option. Worst we have had is current C4 picasso which is currently running at about £10k for purchase (75%) and repairs (25%). Still way cheaper than the depreciation would have been on a new one bought at the same time that would have now done 50k.

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Tue 8 Nov 2016 13:39
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - Gibbo_Wirral

It all depends on the age, mileage and what sort of care its had.

I've had Peugeots for years, some cheap bangers, some more expensive. And in all that time I've never been stung with a massive unexpected bill because I've done research into their weak points (avoiding the 110 bhp engine with a dual mass clutch and DPF for example) and made sure I've bought something with good history an evidence of general care.

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Tue 8 Nov 2016 13:51
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - galileo

............... and will probably look to Kia / Hyundai, just on their warranties, and the dealers want to sell me a road vehicle, not a financial product.

The trouble with 'warranties' is that they are in themselves financial products. I have never had one, but I think they usually require the car to be presented for a 'service' every year, the providers of which are past masters of work creation and cost inflation.

The longer the warranty, the more one has to stump up for these annual expensive and often unnecessary interventions. Replacement of fluids that don't need replacing and brake pads and discs with thousands of miles wear left all generate much cash for the business, paid for by the unfortunate warranty holder who is not in a good position to negotiate with the mechanic about the extent of the 'service', especially if how to turn a tap on and off is the extent of their mechanical knowledge.

In fairness, dealer service costs during warranty for my i30 were not much more than from my independent once past the warranty period (still the same prices quoted as before).

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Tue 8 Nov 2016 15:48
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - argybargy

In defence of certain warranties, but by no means all.

My own experience of warranties is limited to after-market policies rather than those that come with new cars: the type where you can usually take the car to an approved repairer of your choice, rather than being tied to a main dealer where there's little incentive for the garage to provide a satisfactory service and where, as stated above, as a condition of the warranty you have to submit your car for regular and sometimes inadequate routine servicing.

However, I would rather have a warranty than not, because although I like to do my own repairs whenever practical (ie, when I can sit on the roadside rather than crawl about under the car expecting at any moment to be squashed flat because we live on a steep hill), I don't have a garage and can't get my car under cover and in the dry at short notice in order to work on it.

Point being that people in my position, who either don't have maintenance facilities or a friend/ colleague/ relative who does, and who find themselves facing significant, unexpected repair bills really do have to rely on garages, and that can mean that paying monthly for a warranty to deal with those unanticipated major issues still makes good sense.

Edited by argybargy on 08/11/2016 at 16:01

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Tue 8 Nov 2016 16:46
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - Steveieb

A good starting point , as previously stated would be to avoid anything French. But I would add to that anything built in Italy such as Alfa Romeo and most Fiats. The 500 is built in Eastern Europe.

But Range Rovers and some other Land Rovers built after 2005 have caused their owners massive bills but they love the cars so much they don't seem to bother too much.

The acid test is when you come to trade in. The dealers know exactly which are going to sell easily and cause them the least grief from customers.

And secondly see which cars are popular in the USA, who will not put up with poor cars even when their hearts rule their heads.

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Tue 8 Nov 2016 16:54
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - drd63

If you can't afford to buy it and/or repair it - lease.

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Tue 8 Nov 2016 18:09
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - FoxyJukebox

If a car is still going well after 4 or five years--it really is indeed worthwhile hanging on to a devil you know--in which case the way to avoid a money pit would be to apply a stitch in time saves 9 approach

1) Not only have your major service every year-but also deal with any service recomendations.

2) Only celebrate an MOT pass if you have taken action on all the "advisables" too.

3) Look under the bonnet once a week and check oil, brake fuid, coolant and top up winsdscreen washer. Check the tyres and their pressures once a month.

4) Wash the car once a week-wax twice a year.

5) Avoid a main dealer for regular scheduled maintenance.

6) make the big "It's died" decision quickly the moment you get a major unresolvable electrical fault.

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Tue 8 Nov 2016 19:07
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - Terry W

Buy a bike

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Tue 8 Nov 2016 19:57
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - skidpan

The trouble with 'warranties' is that they are in themselves financial products. I have never had one, but I think they usually require the car to be presented for a 'service' every year, the providers of which are past masters of work creation and cost inflation.

Only an idiot would buy a car and not have it serviced every year. A car is a costly item and to misstreat it is one sure way of turning it into a money pit.

One example. We had a C-Max 1.6 TDCi 110, you know the one with the "engine of doom". Serviced it every year (about 9000 annual miles) and sold it on at 5 years with about 45,000 on the clock. Its now almost 11 years and owned by the chap that bought it from us. About 85,000 miles and other than the expected expenses and and annual service no dramas.

Look after your car and it will look after you. Like a dog it will bite you in the ar5e if you ill treat it.

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Tue 8 Nov 2016 20:38
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - brum

May I remind people about depreciation? New cars lose thousands of pounds in the first couple of years, some many thousands.

An old car may require a thousand pounds spending on it to bring it up to scratch, but put that in context of how long it buys you before you need to spend any more.

People should stop thinking in terms of "the cars worth" and concentrate on cost of ownership over time/mileage.

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Tue 8 Nov 2016 21:48
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - Fishermans Bend

brum, spot on!

I'll be adding my thoughts when I have a bit more time.

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Tue 8 Nov 2016 23:25
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - Big John

May I remind people about depreciation? New cars lose thousands of pounds in the first couple of years, some many thousands.

An old car may require a thousand pounds spending on it to bring it up to scratch, but put that in context of how long it buys you before you need to spend any more.

People should stop thinking in terms of "the cars worth" and concentrate on cost of ownership over time/mileage.

Indeed,

I do 16k miles / year - I aim for £1k capital /year and keep an eye on other running costs (especially tyres!). I plan car buying carefully, usually looking for bargins on run-out models (used or new). In the past I've bought a new 2001 Octavia for £9k (er still have it!) , a 2003 Skoda Superb at 18 months (£8k) - owned for 10 years and laterly another Superb 2014 at 14 months (10k)

Good servicing cruicial! and beware the cost/longevity of tyres

Depreciation irrelevant usually keep for 10 years and effectively throw away

Edited by Big John on 08/11/2016 at 23:26

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Wed 9 Nov 2016 09:59
What do you have to do to avoid a money pit? - madf

Recent cars:

Peugeot 106 - owned 16 years

Daewoo Matiz - 2 years (£2k to but .. temp car)

Toyota Yaris - own for 12 years

Honda Jazz: own for 4 years.

Annual depreciation per car - £500-£1000

Anuual maintenance +MOT/consumables £200

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