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Strange the low MPG, the heavier Mondeo with the same engine can do nearly 40mpg on a run.
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Strange the low MPG the heavier Mondeo with the same engine can do nearly 40mpg on a run.
Is the Mondy geared differently perhaps ? I'm still a big fan of the 2.0l petrol Mondy despite driving more upmarket machinery of late, SWMBO had a 1.8 Focus I for a while and whilst it was a great car it lacked the refinement and subjectively the punchiness of my 2.0l Mondy, also it wasn't really any more economical to our surprise, possibly even a bit thirstier.
I presume at this price level a Focus II would be available, IIRC they have much more of the Mondeo III's refinement and interior 'ambience' (important if you spend a lot of time in a car IMHO) so possibly a good compromise.
After a Civic FK3 I'd suggest that the ride in any Ford will feel like a magic carpet (you'll miss the Honda engine though).
Edited by idle_chatterer on 07/01/2010 at 23:21
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I'm still a big fan of the 2.0l petrol Mondy despite driving more upmarket machinery of late,>>
That can only be a diesel Mondeo then I guess ;-)
EDIT: A 2.0 TDCi would feel surprisingly punchy after the Honda 2.2.
Edited by cheddar on 08/01/2010 at 08:43
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Daughter has a Zetec S - suspension not quite as exteme as an ST.
Would not want to drive or ride 35k a year in it.
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35k a year in a Fiesta ST would be murder, they are a little buzz box. OK for nipping around locally but not a long distance commuter. Focus St also not a lot of fun on a long journey and costly to run (thirsty).
I would think about Octavia or Fabia. Poss a Fabia vRS. Economical diesel and very good cruiser (6 speed box). Just as importantly for you we find excellent parts availability from specialist factors, almost any part at a good price within 24 hours and they are well undersood and usually quick and straightforward to fix, so if you do have a problem you will not be off the road for long.
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>>Focus St also not a lot of fun on a long journey and costly to run (thirsty). >>
A Focus ST is great on a run WT, I know I have one, refined, great ride and handling combo, pulls from low revs in a TD kind of way so no need to stir the box and goes like stink when you want it to, over 30mpg is possible at 70 - 80 mph cruise.
>>I would think about Octavia or Fabia. Poss a Fabia vRS. >>
Yawn .... zzzzz
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I thinks its the MK1 Focus ST being refered to.
BTW you'd need shares in an oil rig to do 35K in the 2.5 Focus ST.
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Yawn .... zzzzz
Don't knock the Fabia vRS, cheddar. A friend has one, and every time I drive it, I forget how much fun it is. Handling isn't as sharp as a hot Fiesta's, but it is comparable on performance and arguably even quicker once rolling. Autocar and Auto Express figured the 0-60 times as around 8 seconds against Skoda's claimed 9.5, and the in-gear pull is something else. And that's before a £350 remap to 175 bhp which does not affect reliability or driveability based on any research I can find. It's also refined on the motorway with 70 mph in top giving about 1800RPM, and enough torque to pull you past slower traffic or up the steepest of inclines. If you're out of town and half sticking to speed limits, you will breeze 50 mpg too.
The Focus ST is of course in a different league, but costs considerably more to buy and insure, and nearly twice as much to fuel.
Edited by DP on 08/01/2010 at 10:58
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I second DP's comments re: the vRS. Mine was the best car I have ever had, and I miss it dearly.
Better built than the Ford IMO too.
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I would think about Octavia or Fabia. Poss a Fabia vRS. >> Yawn .... zzzzz
How can you assume that they are ALL boring? Typical VAG hatred...
Ive got a 2005/55 Seat Leon FR PD & I have never had a dull moment in VAG PD's. Has a drab interior & understeers, thats about it! Its tax bracket F, got great fuel economy (55 on a light foot) kills any 1.8 120, 236lbft/320nms of 2,000 rpm punch = sorts out the lane undertakers no problem. Cost me less than £6,000. Best bit is... 8V PD's are not full of the same complicated common-rail technology likely to go wrong like TDCi's either. People claim VAG are always expensive to fix & unreliable but its just a conventional TDi with an added mid-pressure fuel pump & nozzle, dubbed as rough & unrefined by some very picky people but I have no DMF to break, no DPF to clog up, I have a lower pressure fuel pump than a common-rail so its less likely to bust-up on me so soon.
People still ignore Skoda & Seat as they did have an appalling reputation in the 80's (especially Skoda with the backwards engineered estelle) so far my Seat FR PD has cost me a 200Bhp re-map (£380) set of 2 worn front hancook tyres (94.50 each) & a clear MOT test at £50. No faults! no engine repair Bills! The emissions test came up almost the same as it was on the last MOT something stupid like 1 tiny milligram more of Co2 emissions even with the 200Bhp remap.
I'm all up for Skoda VRS's, especially TDI's they might not be as refined diesels as a TDCi, they might not have "hushing engine" technology, they might not be as smooth but that doesn't make them bad.
Right now, I'd much rather have a more trustworthy Diesel that doesn't borrow awful cheap parts from Delphi > A Focus ST is great on a run WT, I know I have one, refined, great ride and handling combo, pulls from low revs in a TD kind of way so no need to stir the box and goes like stink when you want it to, over 30mpg is possible at 70 - 80 mph cruise.
ST's are exciting cars as you can't ignore the needles on the dashboard & neither can you ignore that 5-Pot Turbo V10 sound they make & the oomph. But thats no fun if you are constantly watching the fuel needle + trying to keep the turbo noise hushed + keeping the revs under 2,000 to a minimum to save your valuable wage packet being spent on unleaded rather than MOT's & Tax.
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'Right now, I'd much rather have a more trustworthy Diesel that doesn't borrow awful cheap parts from Delphi'
Not all TDCI have the delphi injection system, a lot of them use bosch or siemens systems-new 2.0 TDCI 140 Mondeo (2007 onwards) moved to the PSA unit found in the Focus that uses Siemens-the reason for the switch? make of that what you will.
Agree about this notion that PD's shortcomings doesn't make them bad. I own a TDCI Focus but I find the performance, economy, noise of the VAG PD's perfectly acceptable and I would have no qualms about owning one (was on the list when I bought the Focus). Infact it was the drive of a Mark IV Golf 130 TDI that changed my perceptions of the diesel engine some 6/7 years ago. Similarly TDCI seems to have picked up a reputuation of being unreliable-however there will be many owners who will be happy with their cars and its because they are happy that they do not write in to forums praising them!
Whether it be PD, TDCI, CDTI, etc etc. we all made our choices when we bought the car and we should all be happy with them. All cars have pro's and con's and hopefully the pros's will outweigh the con's.
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How can you assume that they are ALL boring? Typical VAG hatred...
They are not all boring, there are many VW's and Audis that I quite fancy, the tone of my comment was aimed at WT,s inevitable drumming of the VAG tune, there are other cars than VAG you know and there are many cars that are actually better than many VAG cars to.
>>8V PD's are not full of the same complicated common-rail technology likely to go wrong like TDCi's >>
Like cambelts you mean, my 139,000 mile 258lb/ft/350nm TDCi is more refined than any PD has ever been and the saving in cambelt changes alone relative to a VAG PD (3 in 139k miles) would cover the cost of any CR related repairs that have not actually been required to date.
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>>They are not all boring, there are many VW's and Audis that I quite fancy, the tone of my comment was aimed at WT,s inevitable drumming of the VAG tune, there are other cars than VAG you know and there are many cars that are actually better than many VAG cars to.
There certainly is but most of VAG particularly beginning with the letter "S" gets ignored & never gets a second look in because everyone turns their attention to Ford, Vauxhall & VW I'm not saying there isn't anything better than VAG at all! none of us can afford ferraris otherwise we would but Ford is not one of those "better" makes down to my own experiences with them involving paid-work I'm afraid.
>>Like cambelts you mean, my 139,000 mile 258lb/ft/350nm TDCi is more refined than any PD has ever been and the saving in cambelt changes alone relative to a VAG PD (3 in 139k miles) would cover the cost of any CR related repairs that have not actually been required to date.
Quite refined but its nothing extra special. Ive never owned a Focus, I never will, I have a good reason not to. For your information I actually had a PSA Focus II 2.0 TDCi 136 (like yours) before I worked for RAC allocated to me as a company car by uni-com hired by lex. As for the 139,000 mile cambelt my allocated TDCi had injector seal leaks more than once, broke a DMF on the M1, & had a PCM fault of stalling the engine at any time. It could have been highly dangerous at the wrong time. Thankfully it didn't happen at roundabouts or junction-sliproads on dual carridgeways but the problem always made me nervous enough to try & avoid roundabout wherever possible.
The Focus is a very good car maybe a little bit too common for my taste but you can't knock anything until you had it or drove it. I can see why its a popular car I didn't have a miserable life with uni-coms Focus it handled great, it had a huge boot, it was solid, it was safe, the TDCi wasn't rough when it was cold like my PD is. The only other minor faults I did have to pick about about it was the whole interior quality wasn't quite what people make out it is, its rather like my Seat, seems rather hard & quickly die-casted in a lot of places. Fine on all the top parts but gets a bit flimsy/floppy lower down. The Sony stereo is ace but I never really liked the silver "look" plastic trims like the interior door handles. All in all it was a good car - hard to fault on a day-to-day basis but I didn't feel it was my cup of tea as everyone else tends to have one too. My cup of tea has always been a Leon FR or an Astra SRI.
As Ive said below PD engines aren't saints or heaven sents when it comes to breakages & repair bills but then Ford aren't exactly fault-free either.
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but Ford is not one of those "better" makes >>
My point is that some people seem to think that a car is superior because it is VAG which is carp, Fords are at least comparable, some Fords are better, Some VWs or Audis are better.
I actually had a PSA Focus II 2.0 TDCi 136 (like yours) >>
Sorry, I have a Mondeo TDCi, hence chaincam, and a Focus ST.
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>>My point is that some people seem to think that a car is superior because it is VAG which is carp, Fords are at least comparable, some Fords are better, Some VWs or Audis are better.
As I said before Seat & Skoda were both dreadful car manufacturers going back to the 1980's.
They have since undeniably improved since VAG scooped them up under their wing.
As I said in an earlier post the Skoda Estelle was a dreadful example of Skoda. The idiots put the engine in the boot & made the whole top of the engine iron & the bottom part aluminium which was completely backwards! Then they made the awful Felicia in the 1990's which was a horrible reliable cockroach that was built like a tin-can & looked like an FSO Polonez.
Seat had the dreadful 1980's Ibiza which was apparently almost a Fiat Uno that looked like a Yugo 45. Then they had the cheek to nick the Fiat Panda & stuck awful black plastic cladding around the bottom & called it the Seat Marbella.
Some people make out that everything VAG is superior but I'm not. Seats & Skodas were rock-bottom rubbish in the 1980's but slowly improved.
I actually had a PSA Focus II 2.0 TDCi 136 (like yours) >>
Sorry, I have a Mondeo TDCi, hence chaincam, and a Focus ST.
I assumed you also had a Focus II, My bad.
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I assumed you also had a Focus II My bad.
Not at all, the Focus is a Focus II, an ST2 2.5t.
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Ive got a 2005/55 Seat Leon FR PD......... I have no DMF to break
Are you sure? I thought all PD engines had a DMF. One of their few real weaknesses, IIRC.
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16V PD's like the 170 have a DMF
I have an 8V PD 150.
MAF sensors are my weakness.
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16V PD's like the 170 have a DMF I have an 8V PD 150.
I have an 8v 1.9 PD 130 which does have a DMF.
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I asked my neighbour (Owns a Seat Ibiza Cupra PD 160) if my 1.9 had a DMF
He said it was just all the newer gen 2.0 16V PD's that had a DMF on them & the 1.9 8V PD's just have an SMF.
I know for sure that our engines definitely don't have a DPF to worry about. The DPF's are in the 2.0 16V PD engines.
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My 170PD was a 2.0l 16V and had both DMF and DPF, the clutch was replaced under warrantee (as was the steering rack) - nothing to do with the DMF in fairness, friction plate problems I believe. My comments don't pertain to the 1.9 8V PDs, I've driven both 115 and 130PS versions of these and liked them - the new CR engines are nice too IMHO, I expect that the 140PS 2.0l PD is OK too but my (and others if you read the VAG forums) experience of the 170PD in an A4 B7 was rather less good.
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You are not the only one who has had a bad experience with the PD 170. My neighbour (The one mentioned above now with the Ibiza Cupra PD 160) had a Red Seat Leon FR MKII before the Ibiza with the PD 170 engine.
I think his was the DSG. He had endless problems with the Engine management & DPF so he tells me. It would run fine all week/month then suddenly out of the blue the car would suddenly lose all of the torque power permanently after 2,000 RPM until the car was put right again by Seat. Up until then it would have about as much speed performance as a 2.5 Diesel Transit van. It was something to do with the filter getting clogged up & not re-generating itself causing complete power loss. He described it as a nice bit of kit with a chocolate engine.
I can't say I heard good things about the 2.0 TDI 140 either. My mums friend's daughter is a trainee solicitor she got a black 07 plate Audi A3 2.0 TDI after her old Ford Focus 1.6 Zetec. I saw her quite a while ago & she told me it was nothing but trouble. 2 compression rings wore out on the pistons, the headgasket had cracked & had to be re-placed, one of the con-rods severed itself, the turbo blew. She said to me if thats a TDI you've got I feel sorry for you.
Thankfully my little 1.9's been great so far no repair bills as of yet!
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>>Focus St also not a lot of fun on a long journey and costly to run (thirsty). >> A Focus ST is great on a run WT I know I have one refined great ride and handling combo pulls from low revs in a TD kind of way so no need to stir the box and goes like stink when you want it to over 30mpg is possible at 70 - 80 mph cruise.
Its the early ST I was referring to. I know what they are like because I had one for a year. And got nowhere near 30mpg at 70mph. So I hold to my original comments.
A fabia vRS with a few tweaks (remap, Whiteline RARB) is more than a match for a Fiesta ST in the performance stakes, a great deal more economical and built like brick outside toilet.
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OK WT, you mean the Focus ST170 I guess.
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A remap on any PD will ensure your trip to work is not boring. My Seat Leon FR PD 150 has had a 200 horsepower remap by Regal Autosport at the cost of £380.
It keeps up with a standard Focus ST170 & Fiesta ST150. I'd say get a Fabia VRS instead of a Fiesta ST & pay less than £400 for a 180Bhp remap then you will have best of both worlds. 50Mpg Fuel economy combined with the speed of a Fiesta ST. Best thing about a remapped diesel is you can actually choose between speed or economy.
Some people will claim that you get over 55+ miles to the gallon with a remap. Thats not true I can only get 52 from my TDI at the absolute best.
If you are commuting from work-home & it involves quite a lengthy drive from A-B on mixed roads then don't think twice about getting a Turbo Diesel. Have it remapped, never chip it!
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That can only be a diesel Mondeo then I guess ;-)
'fraid not, had an A4 B7 170PD (a worse car) and a BMW 330d (a better car) since my last Mondy.
I've never had a TDCi Ford, SWMBO had the 2.2 CTDi FK3 Civic, its engine was way better than the VAG 170PD but perhaps not quite as good as the latest 3.0d from BMW IMHO.....
What I liked about the Honda engine was that it revs smoothly and quietly and its responses are very linear - is the Ford TDCi similar ? The VAG 170PD certainly wasn't smooth, linear or even economical in my experience.....
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What I liked about the Honda engine was that it revs smoothly and quietly and its responses are very linear - is the Ford TDCi similar ? The VAG 170PD certainly wasn't smooth linear or even economical in my experience.....
My Mondeo just goes when you put your foot down with no gruffness or rumbling, I have not driven or been driven in a more refined 4cyl diesel and it is 8 years old this year with 139k on the clock.
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