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hi there everyone,to cut along story short vosa came to my place of work for spot inspection and digicard download unluckly for me found in a month i had drove longer than 4.5 hrs on 4 occasions before having a break approx half and one hour after 4.5 hrs ,after being cautioned and making a statement to vosa i have now been summed to court next month,all ive had in 20 years is a sp 30 speeding fine ,what can i expect if it is a large fine can i do community service instead,i drive a truck for a living hence i am not well off,all for stopping for dinner a bit later than i should of.anyone been here before..........
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I don't know what the sentence will be, i'd be more worried about the Licencing Authority chairman when you come to renew your vocational licence, he may take a dim view.
I'd be inclined to grovel like billio and buy a 'tachtrak' to take with you to court and show the magistrates that you are taking this extremely seriously, they will.
Your company will be in hot water for allowing such regular overhours driving and not having disciplinary procedures in place for breaches of regulations.
Are you in the union? if so contact them pronto to get some legal representation.
Hopefully Pat (pda) will see your post and offer some better advice, otherwise if you are not in the union it may be prudent to post on 'trucknet' or 'PDA' and see if anyone there could point you to a good transport solicitor.
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Quick google yields the sentencing guidelines for tacho offences.
Looks like it's a band B fine for the driver, no points. Fine starts at 100% of weekly income, with a range of 75% to 125% once mitigating or aggravating circumstances are taken into account.
So I would guess (and it's only a guess) your maximum possible exposure in the worst event might be 4 offences at 125% of weekly income, or five times weekly income in total, payable in instalments.
Repeat - only a guess from what the guidelines say.
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Like GB says, it will be the renewal of your HGV licence that will be the bigger problem.
Vosa will now, in all honesty, visit the firm and check all of the other drivers charts and cards to see if the TM is monitoring the hours worked and that can dig up a lot of minpr infringements that added together, can make a case for an appearance before the local Traffic Commissioner.
The immediate problem is your court case.
Humble pie and mitigating circumstances are all you can do now.
Four occasions of driving 'over your time' will suggest a complete disregard for the rules ( whether it is or not).
Magistrates ( forgive me for this if you are one!) are not terribly clued up on Drivers Hours Legislation and tend to see 10 minutes over tacho time as driving 'tired and dangerously'.
What can we do then?
How long have you used a Digi Tacho?
They are extremely complicated to understand how to use properly WITHOUT any training, so did you have any training?
If not you need to use this one.
As GB says, get a Driver Timer and take it to court with you.
Get a quote in writing to book your first 7 hours of Driver CPC Training in Module 2.2.1, which is Drivers Hours, WTD limitations and general law affecting lorry drivers.
This will all show a lack of knowledge and a will to correct it.
Maybe I can help some more, so email me at pat.nicholson 'at' tiscali.co.uk if you would like to be pointed in the direction of better advice than I am qualified to give!
Next week I am away doing my Trainers course for the Driver CPC and will be having 'Overnight Assignments' every night to do, after arriving home at 7pm and leaving at 7am the following morning so this week would be good!
Hope this helps.
Pat
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 24/09/2009 at 12:01
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Very helpful reply, but I would sincerely suggest getting teh mods to remove your email address as including it on a forum like this will get you inundated with spam.
(mods can delete this if they hide your address).
{I've modified it, but as a test I embedded an email address ages ago in a post and to date it's never received any spam}
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 24/09/2009 at 12:04
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Martin my email address is readily available on our PDA forums and always has been. I've never suffered with anymore spam than anyone else I know.
Intuition told me the OP was knew to these forums and may have found it a bit unfamiliar and I wanted make it easier for him.
I'm happy for it to stay.
Pat
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The OP wrote: ...i expect it is a large fine can i do community service instead...
No, you can have your say in mitigation, but the penalty is decided solely by the court, it is not open to negotiation.
The guidelines suggest a fine, which means the court sees it as a less serious offence than one for which the guildeline is a community penalty/service.
You can be fairly certain the magistrates will not depart far from the guidelines.
If your financial situation is parlous, take some proof of that with you, as it will give the bench some justification for setting a lower fine.
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What hasn't yet been mentioned is that the Traffic Commissioner may decide to revoke your licence for a short (or long) time if they feel the offence is serious enough!! Or at the least they will possibly have you in for a bit of a P.I.!!!!
Not nice I'm afraid, but then to be honest the amounts you were over, with no reason accounted for, were quite a bit!!
Eat lots of humble pie and hope for the best is all could advise!
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I don't drive trucks for a living so please could someone explain what happens when HGVs get snarled-up in traffic jams? Imagine being on the biggest car park in the world (M25) when ones 4 hours expires. Are you supposed to switch off and have a brew? The law doesn't seem to accept sleep-banking (the guy who has had a good nights sleep the night before should have a lot more endurance than the guy who has been clubbing til dawn) As to my driving I do do long trips in my Rover turbodiesel collecting "local pickup only" items bought on eBay. 800 to 1000 milers with a trailer fairly normal though not all the same day! New risk is sleeping in laybys as on the A1 Yorks/Notts border I had two mobile phones stolen! (back door buttons don't do the central locking - I forgot) Nice people up there!
Good Luck and I do hope the Mags in your area are lenient. When bro in Lincs was fitted-up for 42 in a 30 limit that had been 40 the day before they threw the book in spite of lots of grovelling like addressing the bench as "your worships". 3 points, £150 fine and £30 costs and that was about 20 years ago. Great country innit?
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If we are 'gebuinely' snarled up in a traffic jam turbo, it will show on our tacho and it's perfectly OK to carry on to the next available place to have a break or park for the night ( within reason).
However, we have to write an explanation on the back of the card or print out and it has to be descriptive so as to be checked out.
M25, 2.30 to 4.30pm clockwise delayed in RTA.................that type of thing.
I would strongly advise against sleeping in laybys on the side of the A1 or in fact any major trunk road.
It doesn't matter which part of the country you're in either, you're never alone when asleep in a layby!
Suggestions would be to find a 24 hr supermarket car park, 24 hour garage forecourt or a very quiet side road layby, or even better a good B&B!
Pat
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