Driving along a dual carriageway near George Green village, in lane 2, and a 4 by 4 tailgating a car in lane 1 indicates and simultaneously moves into lane 2, the rear of his vehicle nearly hitting my front bumper, just as I am about to accelerate. I give a short hoot to warn him of my presence, drop back for safety and flash my lights twice to again indicate my presence. He zooms off then slows to turn right. As I pass he sounds his horn continuously for 10 seconds or more.
I find it all rather depressing. Don't these people have a concept of dangerous driving? Don't they realise that if the car in front has a blow out, or serious engine problem, then they are in deep doo doo?
Roll on compulsory repeat driving tests every few years.
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Leif,
As well as being a logistical nightmare, repeat driving tests would be a complete waste of time. The driver you describe above probably has the confidence and car control skills to easily adapt his driving to whatever the test would require. He is dangerous because of his attitude and his aggression, part of his character which is probably evident in the way he conducts himself in other walks of life too.
The only people to suffer because of re-testing would be the safe drivers who stuff up because of nerves on the day, possibly losing their livelihoods as a result. What we need instead are more traffic patrols, with a directive to hunt down drivers who commit dangerous acts, and courts with the will to make them pay the penalty for it.
I speak as one who would make a fortune should re-testing ever come in (Provided I didn't make a hash of my own re-test and become unemployed, that is)
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Tom. It is interesting to hear your opinion given your profession. I suspect you are right, though some form of re-education is needed. Perhaps compulsory sessions in driving simulators with blow outs, tractors round blind bends etc for those involved in accidents of their own causing? I seem to remember a TV program did something like that with a boy racer and it worked.
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Leif - as I've already said on another thread, the reaction you got from that moron is the best possible proof he knew he'd done wrong and couldn't admit it. Tom's right - these people never admit to being wrong in any aspect of their lives and certainly don't like their mistakes pointed out by anyone else ! It's hard but we mustn't let idiots like that wind us up, there's always going to be another one just around the next corner.
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Leif,
The best form of re-education in my opinion is six months of catching the bus. If the police put more patrols on the road to catch dangerous drivers and stopped wasting their time clogging the system nabbing people going 10mph over the limit on dual carraigeways we'd all be safer.
I suspect those day's of sensible enforcement are gone, however.
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Tht brings up an interesting question. Modern-day driving is now a serious business requiring a whole mix of things involving personality, behavior, knowledge and experience. The time you really need most of this is when things get hairy or go awry on the road, presumably little or none of which can (or should!) be reproduced in real lfe driving practice.
Perhaps I've missed it, but surely there is a case for simulated practice here? Pilots etc do it. A standardised course could include so many hours on a simulator with a pass mark on that in oredr to proceed to the road test itself.
Or maybe some entrepreneurial driving school has done (is planning) this already.
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Growler,
Driving simulators have been used by schools in the past, without success. Unlike flight simulators, which I believe cost as much as a plane itself these were "Dead" machines which gave no physical feedback to the user and were no better than a video game. Aircraft simulators are no different to being in a real aircraft with every bit of vibration and turbulance felt by the pilot as if it were actually happening in flight.
Untill somebody comes up with something similar for cars, at a price which the Driving School Industry can bear (Dirt Cheap) We are stuck with the traditional learning methods of "For God's sake, mind that bl**dy bus!"
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Tom
Repeat tests would be a waste of time if they had a similar format to the current test. But that is totally inappropriate when a driver has a few years (or more) of experience. A requirement to go once a year to drive with an examiner for an hour say, followed by a debrief and feedback, would encourage continual learning and assessment and would do no harm.
I agree that those with an attitude problem may choose not to learn anything, and would welcome more traffic patrols to catch them in the act, but I still think many would benefit.
GJD
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GJD,
That brings us to the logistics of repeat testing. The DSA conduct 1.6 million driving tests each year, these departing from the various Test Centres at 50 minute intervals. The waiting time for a test is generally 6 - 8 weeks. There are 30 million licence holders in the UK, so you can imagine what it would take to give each one an hour long test on an annual basis.
Perhaps an incentive of zero road tax for those who pass an advanced driving test might be a better idea, and cost effective too if you believe the safety lobbies figures of each fatal accident costing one million quid (I don't).
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Tom
The logistical problems you point out are the killer, of course. Once a year is too optimistic. Maybe an incentivbe for passing an advanced test like you suggest, with a five year life that has to be revalidated by passing another test is more workable.
GJD
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Tom
Sorry for the delayed reply, but you are absolutely right.
The only remedy for poor driving is the mark one eyeball on the road.
Any experienced driver can adjust their driving style over the range from little old lady to boy racer. What counts is what they do in non-test conditions, only one fault which will be picked up by the metal mickeys.
However, anyone held to blame for an accident should have a retest, training or restricted status imposed.
I do think, however, that medical status needs to be regularly checked or certified in some way. Eyesight, diabetis, Parkinsons disease, loss of movement in neck or limbs, and a host of other symptoms need to be picked up and remedied much sooner than at present.
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Obviously the 4x4 driver would have reacted the same way no matter what your 'signal' to him that you were also on the road.
Myself, I'd have to admit a toot on the horn PLUS two flashes of the headlamps would probably also appear to him as aggressive behaviour.
Truth is, there isnt a correct way to signal your presence in such situations on the roads nowadays else the other driver sees it as road rage.
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Personally I reckon Sean Connery as 007 had the right idea in the original Aston to deal with "duh" brains like this plonker.
Machine guns at the front to clear middle lane owners club, plus announce your firm response to the 10 second horn blast.
Tacks, oil and smokescreen from the rear to deal with tailgaters.
I forget now but didnt the Aston also have Boadicea type spears to sort the tyres of the no indication lane changers society.
Not too seriously, as ever.
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I gave a short hoot in case he genuinely had not seen me. In this case it would have served a useful purpose. I agree that I should not have flashed my lights on the grounds that it would enrage an aggressive driver. Oops.
I normally just ignore these people as I have better things to do. (And of course getting angry would reduce my attention to the road.) But it does get depressing how often I see this happen to others as well as myself.
I suspect the police only stop you for gross violations such as racing and going through red lights. It would be interesting to see what the causes of accidents are and what percentage are caused by tail gating, changing lane without due care etc.
Anyone know of such a web site?
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I should point out as one in the know, Real (ie, not the small minority sitting in stationary white vans) Traffic Officers are a dying breed. The met have virtually disbanded their traffic departments in order to deploy more Officers onto beat patrol. (Hence B-liars so called %14 reduction in street crime.) My own Roads Policing Unit was long ago renamed as an Operational Response Unit. I know attend anything. As one double crewed car is responsible for a major town and all the surrounding Rural Area, (yes, that's two Police Officers), not a lot of traffic enforcement takes place. Certainly no speed enforcement happens. As we only have three cars/shift, (if we're lucky), that each cover a town and are often called into the City, (City cover average 5 Officers), you can see the problem.
My unit has attended 21 fatal accidents in the last 11 months. We think the two are connected. Unfortunately are Senior Officers are too busy attending courses on how to stick your head in the sand and demoralise your workforce to notice.
Incidently, those courses must be very good, because they are very succesful at demoralising everybody.
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Crisis (if I may be informal), curiously enough you have given me a bit more respect for the police.
To answer my own question, RTA statistics are here:
www.driving.co.uk/3a2.html
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I have one friend who is a serving police officer, and another who has not long retired after spending most of his career in the Met's Traffic Division. Both have said that moral in the force is at an all time low. The friend still in the job reckons thet half his relief are either off with stress related ilnesses or on medication to relieve the same.
Frightening.
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Yes that is frightening. What is the cause of the stress? Lack of resources to do the job? Hostile public? (I was stopped and searched on many occasions when I was younger. Quite why I don't know. But it did generate a degree of hostility from me. Being pushed against a wall and searched by plain clothes police who refuse to identify themselves is quite frightening. Crime? Walking along a street during the day.)
Getting back to the original thread, I think the problem is that most people do not think about their driving once they have passed the driving test. The only popular soure of driving techniques is (as far as I am aware) the Ask Ripley column in the Saturday Telegraph. I don't claim to be a particularly good driver, but I am sure that I have benefited greatly from his advice.
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midlife
i sympathise
your points closely mirror some i posted a few days ago which were removed by uncle mark i assume as my critism of the senior police ranks was no doubt regarded as "police bashing"
however, dont loose faith, i for one support the front line officers doing their best with less than adeqaute leadership, lack of training, poor resources
and senior officers pushed through accelerated promotion without enough experience on the streets etc etc
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MLC hits the nail on the head in that Traffic Divisions as such are nearly extinct like the Dodo. All to do with vfm as its has become an expensive business to run a fleet of cars and manpower that is required and we don't want to pay more taxes do we.
In my day (swing the lamp) 1960 - 1990 initially things were healthy but even then a steady decline in the sections strength so that when I left it was down to below half. Again in those days we investigated EVERY accident, single vehicle non injury and if there was a due care then it went to Court (no CPS but wise old Inspectors recommending Prosecution and even prosecuting). So there was some deterent against bad driving. Non injury accidents, I gather, now don't even attract a line in a Notebook whether a due care is involved or not.
There seems to be a need to examine this point and maybe consider seperating traffic matters from general policing by a Corps and financed by fines from transgressors helped by something from the Excise fund (Oh horrors ).
DVD
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DVD,
"wise old inspectors" I can see someone visibly swelling with pride at that comment. ;-)
In the good old days the police were responsible for their own prosecutions in many cases. I have the opinion that this made for more thought being applied in building the case for the prosecution, and was more effective. Any comments on that?
MLC
When you say three two man cars surely you are just talking about Worcs and not the whole area covered by West Mercia, or are you?
Plus don't get too depressed....
"We serve the 1.1 million people in the UK local authority areas of Herefordshire, Shropshire, Telford and Wrekin and Worcestershire."
and
"West Mercia is one of the lowest funded forces in the UK, and is the fourth largest police area in England and Wales. In spite of this the region is one of the safest places in which to live and work...."
credit where it's due perhaps.
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MLC: The fact that this country is not in chaos is no doubt due to the presence of a police force. And Britain has one of the lowest rates of road accidents around. Plus the general taboo on drinking and driving is due to a combination of advertising and police work.
Anyway, lucky old you. Your next task is to visit new immigrants and make sure they are speaking English at home.
Thank goodness smiley Blair and co. focus on important issues.
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Early fifties Birmingham City Police ran a course for the general public at the Traffic Dept. at Duke Street over IIRC (its a long time ago ) four evenings . Consisted of lots of film plus lectures on motoring in all its aspects and concentrated on driving safely in all conditions. I had just passed my test 1951 and saw the advert in the Post & Mail.
Can honestly say that even now, 52 years later accident free, no speeding tickets & still with clean licence for 7.5 tonne (passed medical at 70(years not mph)) what I learned then has stayed with me and I still put it all into practice when I go out. MLC would agree I think that some investment in real Traffic Police particulary Motor Cycle Patrols would repay itself over and over in terms of increasing safety in todays conditions.
Happy Motoring Phil I
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FiF
Agree totally.
Files went through several hands before landing at prosecutions. Each reviewer having that little bit more knowledge which if the the file was returned was then passed on. Full files prepared. Now only single sheet Minifiles (name address and offence and absolute minimum of evidence)
Police Prosecutors who knew their Courts (and Magistrates) were prepared to run the odd iffy file. If it was thrown out then he won as he satisfied the complainant with a prosecution and Joe Public with the magnificence of the justice system in proving that there was no such thing as a Police State.
Now CPS, basing their assumption on a Mini file minus all the evidence will only take cases if there is more than a 51% chance of a conviction so cases that would have been successfully prosecuted in the old days are binned.
DVD
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