Electrocuting Car Thieves - Harry
Has a nice ring to it, doesn't it!

Actually my question is about car security devices rather than electric chairs. I recently saw advertised a wheel lock that has an integral device to give a high voltage electric shock "non fatal" to any thief trying to remove it. The advert says it's totally legal. Is this the case? Sounds like a pretty good idea to me: I mean, they'd have to have done criminal damage prior to any chance of receiving a shock, plus there's a warning on the front of the thing.

Can I fit one without fear of persecution from the bleeding heart non car owning sanctimonius brigade / the bill?

If it is legal I'll post the details for anyone interested.
Re: Electrocuting Car Thieves - Alvin Booth
Sounds a bit to wimpish for my taste. Why "non fatal" Surely a good designer could make it more efficient.
In any case I am a traditionalist and prefer the good old British hangman and assistant.
Although its difficult to know how one could incorporate that system so I would have to reluctantly fall in with your liberal device. (With mods of course).

Re: Electrocuting Car Thieves - Martyn [Back Room moderator]
Harry wrote:

> Actually my question is about car security devices rather
> than electric chairs. I recently saw advertised a wheel lock
> that has an integral device to give a high voltage electric
> shock "non fatal" to any thief trying to remove it. The
> advert says it's totally legal. Is this the case?
> If it is legal I'll post the details for anyone interested.

Even if it isn't, posting it here won't be illegal and we might all get some pleasure from imagining the possibilities.

I suspect, though, that no matter how many warnings are displayed, the deliberate causing of injury to a thief is going to be a breach of our wrong-thinking laws.

Incidentally, on a connected theme, I used to live opposite a pub, and I was tearing my hair out trying to find a deterrant against the pub's customers who used my garage doorway for a toilet. I was all set to string a network of fuse wire across the favourite spot, plugged into the mains (of course an RCD trip would have limited the current's duration) but a policeman friend warned me I would be guilty of assault. What a shame! It would almost have been worth it, though!
Re: Electrocuting Car Thieves - John Slaughter

An RCD eh? You're really an old softy aren't you?


Re: Electrocuting Car Thieves - Martyn [Back Room moderator]
John Slaughter wrote:
> Martyn
> An RCD eh? You're really an old softy aren't you?

Nah, I just can't stand the smell of barbecues!
Re: Electrocuting Car Thieves - Ian Aspinall
Harry - that sounds great! How much does it cost? Maybe you could fit it in conjunction with one of those flame-throwers that some South African motorists have to protect themselves from carjackers, and really make the thieving so-and-sos dance!
Re: Electrocuting Car Thieves - David Lacey
I've seen a similar device somewhere - something along the lines of a stunning device wired to the door handles, I think.... It's a great idea, but I can see our draconian laws biting the owner back and being forced into paying the assailant vast sums of money in damages etc etc

Shame, really - coz I would love to leave something valuable on the front seat, tempt someone and watch the results!

I bet they'd think twice before doing it again
Re: Electrocuting Car Thieves - richard turpin
Suppose an old lady was mugged, and put her hand on your door handle to keep from falling over. Or what about a 3 year old child touching your wheel clamp out of curiosity? It's called manslaughter I think!

PS. What has happened to HJ's photo. He looks as if he has just had a SHOCKING experience....
Re: Electrocuting Car Thieves - Harry
Since starting this topic off I've located the company involved in supply. They tell me that shipment will begin once manufacturing is up and running, in about two months from now (about Sept 2001 then). They've asked me not to post their details until then, at which time they'll be pleased to field enquiries.
Anyone interested should let me know - I'll certainly re post as soon as the things become available. I want one for a start!.

ps - they are in fact approved for uk use because they are locked inside the vehicle and only arm themselves when criminally tampered with, and after an audible warning of impending defensive measures. Watch this space!!!
Re: Electrocuting Car Thieves - Jonathan
It shouldn't be too hard to 'alter' into a perfectly illegal tazer either.

Re: Electrocuting Car Thieves - Andrew Hamilton
I remember the second film of Terminator 2 where the car thief was fried on the driving seat. It was in a TV advert in the film.
Seriously under the Health & Safety legislation any device causing the likelyhood of a shock ie over 50V ac would not be legal in a public place. One court case was reported where a security guard heard ticking in a car and went to investigate. The electric fence unit duly shocked him on touching the vehicle and the owner was prosecuted.
Re: Electrocuting Car Thieves - Glyn
Burglars have been known to successfully sue houseowners for injuries received inside a property. I expect there would be no problem for a criminal to take legal action for any injuries,stress, time away from crime, costs of counselling etc incurred when breaking into a car and being electrocuted.
Re: Electrocuting Car Thieves - Andrew Tarr
It doesn't take much imagination to re-describe this device as a Booby-trap. I can't see the law looking too kindly on one of those. Pity.
Re: Health & Safety @ Work Act 1974 - Guy Lacey
The owner of a property has a legal duty of care to prevent injury to persons legally or illegally "visiting" his site.

i.e. I dig a ****ing big hole in my site and put a sign on the gate saying - "Warning, anyone breaking into these premises may well fall into a big hole"

In the eyes of the law - this is not good enough. I have not fulfilled my duty of care towards the thieving swine who stupidly climbed over the barbed wire fence, ignored the sign and fell into the hole. I should have covered it.

Without going on and on and on about the police and the law - just one thing.......the law and those who blindly enforce it (when it suits) only serve to minimise inconvenience to the criminal. Just ask my brother "David Lacey" who found his £1000 worth of stolen car stereo in a customer's car only to be told by the police that the customer could keep it because "He paid a fair price"

Well that's OK then..............
Stereo price. - David Woollard
How much was that then? £10 down the pub from a bloke he'd never seen before and he wouldn't know again?

Re: Electrocuting Car Thieves - Mark
Hang on, if electric fences are legal...

My relatives farm has a 5000v electric fence running round the entire perimeter. There are warning signs visible all along the fence. The shock doesn't cause any permanent damage, just causes a tempory muscle spasm that can really hurt (ask the dog that pee'd on it ;) ). Nobodies sued him in 20 years because they weren't stupid enough to risk a 5000v electric shock!

So, if you warn the thieving b*stard he'll get a shock surely it must be his fault if he carries on? Though of course no one is responsible for their own actions anymore are they?

Re: Electrocuting Car Thieves - Brian
I think that the police are wrong on this one.
The only place where the buyer gets a good title to stolen property is in certain street markets, by ancient custom, which markets I cannot remember off hand but there is only a handful of them. In all other cases the title remains with the rightful owner.
Re: Good title to Stolen Property - Stuart Bruce
Its in an open air market before 5 am or some other god forsaken hour of the day. There is one in Newark where a lot of hot art gets traded. And when Im talking about hot art I do not mean the Swedish sort!

I think what plod is on about is not the specifics of the law but the certainty of getting a conviction,m which since we got the wonderfull CPS are tooentirely different things.
Re: Good title to Stolen Property - Jonathan
Welsh, Midnight and Chester springs to mind
Re: Good title to Stolen Property - Gwyn Parry
I hope this is not a Robinsonism............
Re: Good title to Stolen Property - Brian
This os "market overt" (open market) which applies to shops dealing in the type of goods on sale (i.e. you cannot get a good title to a car radio if you buy it in a butchers ) in the City of London on each day except Sunday and in the country on special days under charter, custom or statute.
See Ranking, Spicer and Pegler's Mercantile Law, page 129-130 for a full description.
Re: Protection against Phantom Pee-ers - rogerb
I heard of a shopkeeper, in the Eastern Counties somewhere, who rigged a sprinkler system to a 'motion detector' in his shop doorway.
Hey Presto! Not only do the urinators get a surprise, but the doorway gets washed down - and no-one gets hurt!
Now how do you apply this to your mo'er?

Incidentally, I seem to recall that the bod who was prosecuted had a very 'special' Sierra Cossie, which had been nicked SOOO many times....

Value my car