The US road system grew up with and around the automobile. The UK road system grew up with and around the horse and cart, and has been trying to catch up ever since.
US suspension is soft because roads are rougher. Since there is a helluva lot more miles of 'em I would say maintenance is more expensive and a tougher job. Interesting that the roads built in the Philippines by the US Army Corps of Engineers (all concrete, no tarmac) going right back to to pre-war days and beyond, still rfemain in very sound condition. Proper draining, camberfing, built up shoulders against floods etc.
The automobile has a different place in US life and culture. It is primarily an essential utensil for most. As was remarked it gets a lot of use as such and tends to be an extension of one's living room when driving. With long straight roads that's easier to manage. While this changing in UK, the car still remains largely a measure of wealth, the subject of aspiration or an icon of possession.
This behaviour in the US is of course reflected in driving habits and the occasional lapse of attention.
All the same, as an overseas person I would rather drive in the US any day than Britain. Driving is less agressive, there is generally more room and a "spacey" feel about roads and parking (no I do not have a substance abuse problem!) and cars are on the whole more spacious and comfortable. I find British drivers often inconsiderate, rude and they alternate either between snail's pace dawdling or headlong up-my-ass tactics. Many women especially seem to be in bad moods or just trying to make a point behind the wheel. The fact that the road scene is forever changing and there's something waiting for you round every corner may lend spice for some, me I get intimidated by it.
And believe me I live in a country with, if not the world's worst driving standards, then pretty close.
So US/UK not about better or worse, just different. But I feel far safer piling into a US rental after a 14 hour flight and taking off than I do chancing the horrors of LHR and the surrounding areas after a similar trip. The general convenience and auto-oriented travel of the US is nice too, motels and malls enable you to stop on a whim, find a room anywhere anytime, all that stuff.
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Have to say that I'm with the Growler on the preference for driving in the US. I drive twice a year from Boston to Vermont and even through Boston rush hour it's nothing like my usual Manchester commute. What I really like is the way that everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, slows to the speed limit(or under) at 20 mph through small villages or towns. No hassle, everyone accepts this is the way. It might have something to do with the presence of the local constable ready to dish out tickets but nevertheless it works and like someone mentioned earlier, I never see any traffic calming measures. We could learn a lot in that respect. Also love the 'Right turn on red' deal. What a common sense idea that really works. Going again in two weeks and can't wait for some relaxed driving at no more than 30 mph.
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Maybe it has something to do with big engines and auto-boxes. As a long time lover of same I feel far more relaxed with a big friendly lazy motor than when driving some busy little thing thrashing away on a small engine with a gearbox that requires continual attention. Perhaps there's some mystic harmony between V-8 combustion cycles and my bio-rhythms!
That's why Harley riders are laid-back nicer people....;-)
Horses for course, no doubt.
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In the US you sit back and "travel" - in the UK you have to "drive".
Wouldn't want it myself - boredom behind the wheel may explain the higher accident rate per mile driven in the US.
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I have driven in the USA a number of times and do find it more relaxing for a number of reasons.
No mealy-mouthed traffic-calming (irritation) schemes;
the right turn on red is excellent (why not leave it to common sense...if there's nothing coming then pull into the next road... simple - no nannying required;
also - would you carve someone up if they probably have a gun in their glove box?
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Seems everyone prefers driving in the USA - better roads and cars - they obey speed limits - less aggresion -etc etc.
So why do they have a much higher accident rate?
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I have no experience of driving in the US at all, but from what I've read in the ADI trade papers their driving test is as short as six minutes in some states, comprising little more than a trip round the block and a simple manouvre. This is the reason why an American licence cannot be exchanged for a British one, unlike say an Aussie licence where their test is more in keeping with ours. Their attiude to motor cars is the same as their attitude to guns, everyone has a right to drive provided they satisfy a few simple requirements. That probably explains their high accident rate. Although they may be more relaxed about their driving, when an emergency does occur they have not developed the skills to get round it.
Someone who has personal experience of American driver training and testing may well correct me on the above.
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And some people want us to become the 51st state in preference to the EU! Amazing!
As I said, drivers as young as 16 let lose on the roads? Thanks, but no thanks!
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I can relate to your concern about 16 year olds in charge of potential lethal vehicles, but what magic leap into adulthood takes place at 17 that makes UK-ers more safe and Americans more dangerous? My unscientific observations suggest that while adults may have -- may have-- the maturity and experience to drive more sensibly (but not always use it), youth will have the reactions and sharpness their elders may not, but likewise not the experience.
Aw! it's a nobody knows argument.
A Belgian colleague of mine (yes I do actually speak to Belgians) asserts that the main difference between Euro's (can't talk nationalities anymore, not PC, -- we have to look to the bright gleaming future when we are all one and united in taxation harmony and spirit under one flag, not in my lifetime or yours mate....)..er..where was I? Oh yes.
This Belgian oppo of mine says the main difference is that Euro's drive fast and eat slow, whereas Americans drive slow and eat fast.
Or we can fall back on "2 nations divided by a common language" -- who said that? Tomo probably knows.
For all that, give me a big interstate, a big car, affordable gas and I'll see you in Vegas for the weekend.
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I took a California driving test about three years ago. It was in three parts: a vision test using an eye chart like at the opticians, a theory test with forty questions and, if you passed both, a drive with an examiner.
The drive was hardly taxing but the examiner knew I had a UK licence so may have not bothered too much. I started with 100 points and got points knocked off for mistakes. I was peeved to discover that, had I lost one less point, I would have been qualified to become a driving instructor!
The standard of applicants for the test was terrifying, though. I watched one person swerve out of the car park and straight on to the wrong side of the road. On his return, he confidently sailed in through the exit, ignoring the entrance signs.
I never heard of any of my European colleagues failing the California test. Quite a few of my American colleagues failed the UK test first time.
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Seems everyone prefers driving in the USA - better roads and cars - they obey speed limits - less aggresion -etc etc. So why do they have a much higher accident rate?
Can someone point me to the statistics USA vs UK:
1. accidents per car/van/mpv/truck etc.
2. accidents involving injuries or not?
3. accidents per old/young/qualified/unqualified/uninsured driver
4. accidents per motorway mile/ per other-class road mile
5. accidents per miles actually driven by each car/driver
Do you get my drift? You have to define "higher accident rate" very carefully before you can compare one country with another.
My own experience of driving 2 years ago over 20000 miles (in 18 weeks in total) through Florida/California/Utah/Nevada/Arizona was very pleasant compared to driving in the UK.
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<0.One%
A quick search of the web gave the following statistics:-
"There were an estimated 6,356,000 car accidents in the US in 2000. There were about 3.2 million injuries and 41,821 people were killed in auto accidents in 2000 based on data collected by the Federal Highway Administration."
The figures for UK were 235,048 accidents, 36,405 injuries of which 3,138 were fatal.
The population of the USA is approx 3 times that of UK and they doubtless use their cars more and drive further. However, if these figures are accurate, I cannot see how any manipulation of the statistics would do other than conclude the accident rate is higher in the USA than UK.
C
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Cardew said: The population of the USA is approx 3 times that of UK and they doubtless use their cars more and drive further. However, if these figures are accurate, I cannot see how any manipulation of the statistics would do other than conclude the accident rate is higher in the USA than UK.
1. AFAIK, the population of the USA is roughly 5 times that of UK. That just goes to prove that you cannot take someone else's claimed figures as true without checking out the details.
2. IIRC, in the USA, you are required to report every little accident to the police - even if there is no injury. So they will tend to have a higher reported number of accidents.
3. With regard to injuries, due to the compensation claim culture, once again you get people registering injuries even if they are trivial (or non-existent). I was personally threatened with a law suit for allegedly "trodding" on and injuring a woman's foot in a shopping mall - even though it was the woman who bumped into me while not not looking ahead as she walked past!
4. Statistics in UK show women drivers to have less accidents, until you take account of the miles per male/female driver.
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<0.One%
I believe you are right about the population. UK=60 million and the USA=287 million - nearly 5 times higher.
However if the quoted casualty figures are correct there are over 13 times the number of accidents in the USA.
Now your 'compensation claim culture etc' explanation could explain this, but surely not that there are 13 times the number of deaths - unless these also are trivial!
We all know that statistics can be manipulated to suit any argument. However I have never heard anyone dispute that the accident rate is higher in the USA than UK.
Is your point that the USA is a safer place to drive?
Marcus
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Quoting Marcus:We all know that statistics can be manipulated to suit any argument. However I have never heard anyone dispute that the accident rate is higher in the USA than UK. Is your point that the USA is a safer place to drive?
No, my point is: Do not trust any statistics unless you have fully looked in to the method used to collect them. The msot reliable comparisons are when the same research team collects data using carefully controlled methods to ensure true compatibility. Regarding death rates, you need to know whether the death figures are recorded accurately. For example, I know of cases in the UK where people have died a few weeks after the accident but the coroner has not recorded the death as being due to the accident. Smilarly, I also know of injuries from accidents which do not get reported at all, or only to the third party's insurers, but not to the police. I allso know of many accidents where the accident is not reported to anyone - the two parties just exchange money directly to avoid notifying the Insurance Company for fear of loss of No Claims Bonus or to avoid a bad record.
"Large parts" (mostly empty) of the USA are very safe to drive compared to the UK. However, New York City is not one of them. How it compares to London, I do not know.
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<0.One%
If you are not a politician you should be as your contributions have been a master class in obfuscation!
The exam question was why does the USA have an accident rate and deaths over 13 times higher than the UK when the population is less than 5 times greater.
If I may say so, all you have done is make elementary points, that nobody disputes, on the gathering of statistics. As you say - that is your point and I for one agree with you.
However back to the exam question.
Marcus
PS
All my posts come with an implied frown.
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"The exam question was why does the USA have an accident rate and deaths over 13 times higher than the UK when the population is less than 5 times greater. If I may say so, all you have done is make elementary points, that nobody disputes, on the gathering of statistics. However back to the exam question. Marcus "
Glad you agree with me. As I have shown, the figures you quote regarding "x times" UK cannot be compared directly. If the question is simply why are the accident rates / death rates in the USA what they are, then it is easy to answer the question. One reason for higher deaths per accident in the USA is the fact that seat belts are less commonly worn there even though legally required.
Regards <0.1%
PS: less than 0.1% of UK adults understand statistics.
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92.578% of quoted statistics are made up on the spot!
Marcus
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Yet it's much nicer driving there. All goes to prove statistics once again, don't prove zip.
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A quick search of the web gave the following statistics:-
www.bast.de/htdocs/fachthemen/irtad/english/we2.ht...l
Which shows that the per capita death rate is about two and a half times that of the UK.
But that the per mile death rate is almost the same.
Except for "motorways", where their rate is more than double ours.
Perhaps they have a 140mph limit on theirs?
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>> A quick search of the web gave the following statistics:- www.bast.de/htdocs/fachthemen/irtad/english/we2.ht...l Which shows that the per capita death rate is about two and a half times that of the UK. But that the per mile death rate is almost the same. Except for "motorways", where their rate is more than double ours. Perhaps they have a 140mph limit on theirs?
Bogush,
Thanks, an interesting set of statistics.
Being pedantic the death per mile rate overall is 20+% higher in the USA. It is the per mile death rate on motorways being 2.5 times higher than the UK that I find staggering.
I fail to understand why with generally lower speeds, larger cars - which are supposed to be safer, less aggressive driving and less crowded roads, there is such a difference.
Could the reason be that they don't use our wonderful gatsos? Only joking - honest!
Marcus
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Personally if I had to sit on some big highway cruising at an enforced 65mph (which would probably be lucky) I'd fall asleep and crash into something.
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Just like being on the M25, M6 etc etc then!!
On the interstates and other good roads around Metro Detroit and into Ohio, I regularly cruised around at about 90. Just keep a sharp lookout for Plod, like you do at home. Oh, even at 90 I was often overtaken.
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Yep - my cousin bought her 16 year old daughter a 4.6l V8 Mustang for her birthday!
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A long time ago I worked in NW Australia. MY job required me to have a "B" license (med. truck). When I started I had only an "A" (car). My boss told me take the truck (a Bedford "J") and go to Derby (135 miles away on re dirt roads, get the local copper out of the hotel (that means "Pub" in OZ) and get 'im to giv yer yer ****ing license.
But of course I only have the car license: is it OK to drive the truck. Aw she'll be apples, mate. No worries.
So: 3 hour drive at 60 mph, clouds of red dust, arrive with truck in Derby.
Find General Store, enquire whereabouts police station. Nah, 'e won't be there this arvo, ducks, you'll find 'im at Murphy's in the back room playing cards. It's Wednesday, see.
I didn't see, but proceeded to Murphy's Hotel. Sure enough there was Constable Something-or-Other, vast beer belly sweeping all before him. Wancher B ticket, do yers, then? Yes, please.
She'll be right mate. Give us a mo, I'll come and do yer paperwork.
So, a leetle bit nervy, one because I'd driven the truck without the right license, and two because I wasn't sure what kind of test I was going to get.
Out comes Constable, hitching up belt. Looks at me, looks at my license. Pommie, aintcher? Yeah, we get a few like yooz. Don't last long out here, bunch of POmmie poofters (gales of guffaws at this point).
Awlright, you drive that thing here then? Yes, Officer. I should say I only have a car license, though. Corse yer do, 'ow would yer drive the ****ing thing otherwise? OK. Coupla questions?
YOu drive that thin g in person? Yes, Officer. Youse hit anything on the way? No, Officer.
She's right mate, Sign here an I'll get the missus to type up yer new license. 'Spect you're ready for a beer after all that....
And so I passed my Australian truck test.
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