Having just returned a 1.4 diesel 207 after 7 days hire I thought I might post my first impressions.
I have purposely not read the CbC review so it does not influence my comments.
My first impression on driving was how terrible the steering was, - the power assistance gave a very rubbery feel when in the straight ahead position, most disconcerting on leaving the airport and straight on to an Autoroute. Subsequent driving on a twisty D road I found somewhat hard work having to make constant steering corrections . This was much more effort when compared with my pair of 10 year old Fiestas, both still on original dampers at 65k and 105k. I checked tyre pressures, all ok. Sufficient for me to say at the time that I would never have one after 2 hrs driving. Performance was not wonderful either, the turbo was not in evidence until 2000rpm and that gave a really useful power band of 2000rpm -4000rpm. The diesel becoming distressingly noisy after 4k. 5th gear could not be used at much less than 75kph, it certainly did not have 5th gear flexibilty.
However as the week wore on and my driving style became a little more aggressive, I found that the handling seemed to improve, with the chassis feeling stiff and the steering giving good feedback when pushed a little harder into corners.
Driving at night the lights were impressively good (cf my 2 yr old Picasso with uprated bulbs), probably benefitting from the separate dipped and main beam reflectors/bulbs.
The cabin and boot were usefully large for a smallish car, and certainly I found the driving position comfortable and secure. The low roofline made getting in and out a little difficult with ageing vertebrae, altho it is possible that the drivers seat was height adjustable, I just never got to RTFM. The A posts restrict forward 45 deg vision, not as bad as a Picasso, but noticeable for a car. The music system was good, and it appeared to have some sort of slot, possibly for MP3 files on a memory card? Why didnt I RTFM!
I subsequently spoke with sombody who had test driven the top end 120bhp petrol version and who thought it was wonderful for steering and handling, so maybe my judgement is wrong.
The downside however appeared to be the fuel consumption- I cannot be accurate as it was ready fuelled when I picked it up, but I was not 'overgenerous' when I returned it full. It would look like about 44mpg over 400 miles, generally driven with a light right foot. Not as good as my long term average on the 1.6HDi Picasso.
Verdict. I would not buy the baby diesel version, but would be prepared to give a more powerful version a try on an extended test drive if I was in the market for that type of car.
p
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The power steering is electrically assisted,the 1.6 HDi 90 is the best diesel combination for 207.
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Harsh and gutless over 4000 revs, just like most diesels then, do you normally drive a petrol car?
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Day to day I drive either the 1242cc yamaha engined Mk4 Fiesta which revs wonderfully or a 1.6HDi 90 PSA Picasso.
The most marked feature of this horrible 1.4 was the lack in useful % terms of range of revs.
My old 1700 turbo BX diesel at least pulled from 1200 rpm all the way to about 5000rpm? a ratio of 4:1!
p
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pmh2 - interesting reading your views as we have a 1.4 diesel Fiesta at work which initially I detested. However, I now rather enjoy thrashing the thing around and rediscovering the delights of keeping corner speed up. Quite like the thing really! I used to have a Citroen ZX TD Volcane, another car with which I have fond memories. Also have a new Ford Galaxy or S-Max (Sorry, not sure which) at work seems to have dreadful steering, never driven anything quite so bad. I honestly don't think I could have one for this reason alone. It really pulls at all the lumps and bumps of the road. Very irritating on 'B' roads. Old Galaxy never felt like this one. Anyone else any experience?
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My brother once had the BX with the 1.7 turbo diesel. That shifted..... Not like his previos Pug 405 Mi16 though.
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My 2.0 TDCI focus is red lined at 4500 and limited to about 4800. There is nothing to be gained by reving it beond 4000. It gives power from 1500 to 4000 revs. About 50 mph is the minimum speed for 5th, 60mph for 6th, 2000 rpm = 70mph (indicated 75) in 6th. I have owned a 1.4 diesel fiesta and had no engine drivability problems like your Peugeot.
Edited by Old Navy on 22/12/2008 at 20:53
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I have yet to experience an electronic PAS system that is anything better than horrid. They're all rubbery and lacking in feel compared to the traditional belt driven pump systems. I'm convinced I could drive most modern cars with two flat tyres and they would feel no different up until the point they left the road.
It's particularly noticeable in Peugeots, as they used to have the best steering of all. A 306 XSi or GTI-6 has power steering so close to perfect it hurts. Ford were pretty good at it in later years as well with the mk1 Focus and the mkIV/V Fiesta and Puma.
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My first impression on driving was how terrible the steering was ... The downside however appeared to be the fuel consumption.
At the time of the OP (Dec'08) I had just swopped a 306 HDi for a 207 SW HDi 1.6, and I felt the same about the steering - a bit sloppy around straight-ahead. I am now used to that, but I think it is a slight downside to electric PAS, tho the upside may be lower fuel consumption, which I now find is about 10% better than the 306.
My latest check over 650 miles of mostly A-roads with about 25% motorway and some urban thrown in, gave 65 mpg from the computer. My own measurements confirm that figure within experimental error. One noticeable point is that consumption approaches that figure quite soon after the engine starts - I bet a petrol wouldn't do that ...
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We had a 1.4tdci fiesta which by 10k would average 50-53 mpg & was very noisey but then changed it for the 1.6tdci ( PSA engine) & now thats just reaching 10 k easily achives 60mpg running about 9 miles each way each day & 65 on a run.
The 1.6 HDi engine is cracking, it quiet & perky & very very tourquey ! A petrol is difficult to get near that by my C1 is very very close.
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I test drove the 207 GT petrol a while back and didn't think much of it. Power steering is rubbish for taking the feel out of cars - i'd go back to a car without power steering any day (except when parking!).
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ive not yet driven a car with electric power steering that i like
maybe this is why so many accidents are caused because this electric rubbish feeds absolutely nothing back to the driver
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I've experienced both as my car has electronic PAS and my dads Fiesta MK4 has a hydraulic pump. My dads car gives much better feedback in terms of steering, my Corsas is really too light but I love it round the city. It means geting out of tricky dead end roads with cars parked at both sides becomes a doddle. As I only really use my car in the city I rather like the electronic PAS. I have driven it on the motorway and it did feel very light but the only other car I have driven on the motorway was my old MK4 Fiesta which had no power steering at all!
A little trick is if you move the wheel on a hydraulic PAS car when the car is stationary (yes I know you're not supposed to dry steer) you sill see the revs of the engine rise slightly, on electronic PAS cars that dosn't happen although ironicaly my electric windows make the car rev a tiny bit higher.
A friend of mine had a bad accident when she rolled her Clio over a few months back, I always wonder if the electronic power steering had a part to play in her mis-judgement. Having said that I thought there was a bit of feel in the steering when I drove it. The newer shape Clio is much worse in that regard, the steering is far too light and it feels like you're driving on ice at 50mph! I passed my test in one them.
I think electronic PAS is a mixed bleasing but if I did a lot of country/motorway driving I think I would much rather have a hydraulic system and for that sort of driving I think I would rather have a MK4 Fiesta than a Corsa.
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Not sure I am not sure about modern cars but the PAS on Fiesta MK4 is lovely, lots of feel but its a little heavy round the town. Having owned a couple of none PAS cars I would never ever ever go back to not having PAS. I am a wimp!
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I think my Charade has electric PAS ( theres no filler under the bonnet for fluid and the service schedule doesnt mention a fluid change ).
Mine is speed-sensitive though and it weights up nicely at speed which stops the constant correcting - at 70 it doesnt feel assisted at all.
I found the set-up in the i10 and also to an extent that which was fitted to my old Seicento tended to weight up oddly and required more concentration than most cars ive driven.
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I thought there were all speed sensitive? Mine has a motor which is attached to the speed sensor of the engine. The ECU must then increase the resistance on this motor which is attached to the rack the fast I am going thus reducing the voltage to the motor. Knowing modern car electronics it is probably much much more complicated that this though but certainly at sub 50mph it works brilliantly it just becomes a little too light at motorway speeds.
For some reason hydraulic steering always seem to offer better feel but the science behind that I don't understand.
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Our old Scenic II had electric PAS and the weighting was actually quite good, particularly at high speed. However, in common with the posts above, it had no feel whatsoever. There was a horrid rubbery, "springy" quality to it, with no relay of information about the road surface or grip conditions. Every electric system I've tried is the same, and I read somewhere that BMW reverted to a conventional hydraulic setup on their Z4M, because they couldn't get the feel right with the electric system fitted to the standard models.
The Golf's conventional system feels kart-like in comparison. The Volvo too is conventional, but this is overlight and totally devoid of feel, although at least lacks the rubbery feel. I do believe conventional PAS, done well, doesn't detract from feel. Drive a 90's Pug in XSi or GTi trim, or a Ford Puma. Both object lessons in how PAS should be done.
I don't understand the science either, Rattle.
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