In Shock! - Fullchat
I own a 2005 2.5D Kia Sorento XS coming up to 32 K miles.

Today it was in for its annual service and having been contacted by a salesman the evening before (obviously touting for business) I thought I would give it a whirl. I quiet like the look of the Kia Ceed estate.
Anyway after all the usual questions and the customary visit to the Sales Manager back he came. £15,745 on the road and £9745 to swap. Thats £5000 for mine. "We have a yard full of them and they aren't shifting"
Well I know there is a crisis in the 4X4 market but this is ridiculous.
It would seem other than keeping the Sorento the other option would be to negotiate a cash deal without PX, maybe save, say £1,500 to £2000 in the current climate which would bring the value of mine down to £3000 max to fall in line with the original offer and then bide my time on a private sale. Its gotta be worth a bit more come what may.
Am I thinking logically on this one? Of course logic would say just keep the Sorento but if I really want to change.
In Shock! - Rattle
Did you not realise spending any serious amount of cash on a Kia means you will loose £1000's when it comes to sell? Could you just not keep your Kia a bit longer maybe another two years to lesson the shock?

3 year old Land Rovers are not fetching a lot more than £5k at the moment.

With fuel prices falling though hopefully the market will pick up a bit.
In Shock! - woodster
'lesson the shock' !!! I bet he's learnt his lesson now!
In Shock! - Fullchat
I'm not really shocked - just disgusted. I bought the vehicle specifically to safely tow my British caravan (which I no longer have) and spend my holidays and money in this country.
I bought second hand to save the initial hit and am a realist in terms of depreciation of a Korean 4x4 vehicle. So there was no lesson to be learned as such. This has all come about due to government policy. Oil prices? Around 30 to the gallon round town which ai'nt bad.
If I were to be realistic in the current climate I would have put its value at the £7 - 8 K mark.
The salesman told me that they are losing a £1000 a month according to their guides. Looks like in 6 months I will have to scrap it! And it would seem my luck is out there as well.
In Shock! - tawse
You couldn't find me a CRV for that price could you? Oh, hang on - patience for a few months :-)
In Shock! - Manatee
Assuming you could get a discount on a straight purchase he hasn't even offered you £5000 has he? I always separate the two deals - how much for the new one, forget the p/x, then what are you prepared to pay for the p/x?

This really sums up the whole economy and why it's not moving - none of us is mad enough to do this kind of deal.
In Shock! - qxman {p}
How much did you pay for the Sorento (you said you bought is used to avoid the initial depreciation hit)? What's your actual loss?
No offence, but even pre-credit-crisis the Kias were heavy on depreciation. Again,no offence, but if I were wanting a 4x4 the Kia would be low on my list. I hear they are dear to fix too. Its the kind of car you wouldn't buy unless you had a specific task for it (as you did).
In Shock! - Fullchat
Paid £16.5 K at a year old with 9K on the clock. So that just under a £11.5 hit in 3 and a 1/2 years.
Sorento's were a value for money proper 4 x 4. Towcar of the year and all that. Parts prices? There do not appear to be any manufacturers with cheap parts these days.
In Shock! - Manatee
I think your anti-depreciation plan probably worked in relative terms. I don't know what a 35 month old CRV Executive diesel is worth but I'm pretty sure it will be a lot worse than £11500 below what it cost.
In Shock! - qxman {p}
Paid £16.5 K at a year old with 9K on the clock.


Ouch, I didn't realise they were that expensive!

Sorento's were a value for money proper 4 x 4. Towcar of the year and
all that.


Yes, that's what I meant in my post above. Probably a good vehicle if you "need" a 4x4, but not a "status" 4x4, which is what a lot of buyers appear to want (or wanted...).

Parts prices? There do not appear to be any manufacturers with cheap parts
these days.


There used to be a dealer posted on here (Bell Boy IIRC) who I thought always said Kia parts were particularly expensive and often slow to come through, but I could be wrong.
In Shock! - captain chaos
Fullchat
If you're happy with your Sorento I'd be tempted to keep it. All the salesman is interested in is your money and his commission. Yard full and they aren't shifting? Nothing much is shifting anyway. As for being dear to fix, that could be said for most cars really, no point worrying unduly about it. I think the Koreans are pretty good at screwing cars together, it's just that they haven't been doing it as long as the Japanese
Cheers
cc
In Shock! - midlifecrisis
I made the mistake of buying a Hyundai for Mrs mlc. It's been faultless. But now we're looking to p/x, were being offered a lot less than the equivalent Fiesta/Corsa.

(And nearly 16 grand for a Kia hatch, you've got to be kidding)

Edited by midlifecrisis on 19/11/2008 at 20:41

In Shock! - Lygonos
£15,745 on the road and £9745 to swap. Thats £5000 for mine. <<


£6000.
In Shock! - daveyjp
£15745 for a Kia Ceed Estate? Are they really that much? - It's seems a lot of cash for the comfort of a 7 year warranty.
In Shock! - The Melting Snowman
Ridiculous. At least 4 grand too much.
In Shock! - captain chaos
A 7 year warranty is comforting but IIRC they offer a 10 year warranty in the US? They must have confidence in their products
In Shock! - gordonbennet
Fullchat, a coincidence, my sons best mate is taking delivery of a Ceed diesel estate company car/work vehicle in a few days, i'm sure my lad said it worked out at around 13K, it may be different spec to the one you are interested in, but i can find more out if you wish.

I don't think that depreciation is particularly bad bearing in mind anything bigger than a shoe has plumetted, my tuppence, i'd keep the Sorento for another couple of years until the VED debacle gets nearer D day.
I've delivered many Sorento's over the years and i was tempted myself, proper motor built on a proper chassis, honestly whats gone wrong with it and what could you have bought that was as capable at the time for the money, not a lot i'll wager, and i daresay its not falling apart every week unlike some of the more exclusive high brow brands.

I wonder in a few years when there are millions of ultra mini shoe boxes on the road with occupants scrunched up, whether the market may recover for vehicles that are a little more substantial.
In Shock! - Fullchat
£6000. You are right there. He did mention something later on about diesel for the petrol price, so that would be the extra £1000. Definitely saw £5000 at the bottom of the original sums.
In Shock! - jase1
Seems to me that you overpaid at a year old for the Sorento.

I recall that brand new ones were going for about that much at the time.

Kias, and Korean cars in general are very good but you should never, ever pay full whack for one. Let's face it, only a fool would pay this much for a Ford, so why a Kia?
In Shock! - Fullchat
Funny you should mention the Hyundai PU. Chopped in a Sante Fe for the Sorento which was about 3 and 1/2 years old. £7995. Which was about half its retail value. Fortunately I got it on an employee and family deal with 20% off which made the hit a bit more bearable.

Coincidence that both 'balance to swap' prices came in a just under £10K. Me wonders whether there is some psychology hear. Under 10K and the mug might just go for it.

Fully expect a call in a few days making a slightly better offer and a sob story.

Gordonbennet - would be interested to hear which model your sons friend has got. I was looking at the LS diesel which is just under the top of the range Sport.
In Shock! - Optimist
Not unsympathetic but I don't see why you're surprised. We're in a recession and the chance of the salesman shifting your p/ex don't look good. So he offers you what seems a silly price and if you take it.........

Maybe I missed the point, but doesn't the price to change mean he's offering you £6k for yours?

In Shock! - Fullchat
Optimist - explanation re the missing £1K above.

Maybe I'm not surprised, just venting my spleen at the current situation.
In Shock! - Optimist
Can't say I blame you! If it were me I'd sit tight with what you've got for a while.



In Shock! - Fullchat
I think that's the right approach.

Hopefully we might get some proper 4X4 weather this year then I might be able to have a moment of smug satisfaction at the expense of the green, low VED lobby ;-)
In Shock! - MVP
Every warehouse/airfield/forecourt in the country is full of new or pre-reg cars

Nobody want's your second-hand car unless it's almost free

Look a buying a car like buying a pair of shoes - once you've bought them, they're effectiely worthless even though they may be hardly used & good for a lot more miles

MVP
In Shock! - Rattle
That is a bit extreme. If you look at bangerss say on ebay loooking at the amount of bids cars are certainly selling.

Prices have just come down a bit and dealers are being slow to adjust, hence unsold stock.

That said the only 58 plates I have seen have been on buses!
In Shock! - ifithelps
Some in this thread seem surprised a Kia is £12/14k.

Why? My brother's C'eed LS had the sweetest 1.6 diesel around and was barely distinguishable from a Ford/Toyota/Vauxhall in other respects.

C'eeds are well-made, or as well-made as anything else, well equipped, drive well, and have the longest warranty.

Why should that overall package be cheap?

In Shock! - Rattle
Because they loose their value faster than a Range Rover in a recession.

Kias may well be good cars but the car market is very snobby.
In Shock! - colinh
"...By September 2008 word had got around and the Cee'd SW had become best selling C Sector estate, capturing 23% of the C Sector estate market. Hardly surprising given excellent diesel engine, decent drive, high equipment, bargain price and unrivalled 7 year warranty..." HJ c-b-c

Perhaps the snobs are waking up to reality
In Shock! - MVP
A Mondeo is a great car, but worth very little 2nd hand

A Kia will be even worse

In the real world, brands count - that's why companies spend billions creating them

MVP
In Shock! - mrnikko
In the real world brands count o.k. so that will be BMW, Audi, M B ,Lexus ect.
Up here in Cumbria the dealers who sell these premium brand 4x4 can hardly give the things away there yards are full of decent secondhand mudpluggers just waiting for a home or the crusher.
I seem to recall an artical in the Telegraph recently commenting on the fact that the M B 4 X 4 as a trade in is virtually worthless any how. So really on the Kia yes you have taken a depreciation hit so join the club with the rest of the population that dared to defy nulabour and have a nice car not a sowing machine on wheels just keep the thing and wait until the trade offer minimum trade in deals and get shot of it then if it takes a couple of years so what.
Also just to prove it is not olny 4 x 4 that are finding homes hard to find there is a 3 series M sport for sale at a local garage that has dropped £6 on the forecourt since August.
In Shock! - carl_a
It seems to me that people haven't been doing their sums when it comes to depreciation cost.
Measure the purchase price of a VW Golf against the purchase price of the Cee'd then take away what that gained back after sale a few years down the line.

The Ceed most likely will cost more if you trade in the short term but long term after 3, 4 or more years the ceed will be cheaper overall as you've not paid so much for it in the first place. Of course the ceed diesel won't require a cam belt change either so even more savings!


In Shock! - Rattle
I like Kias.

The problem I have with these far east brands is at a dinner table in your nice suburban three ben room semi when Mr and Mrs smith ask what car you bought you a Kia. You then have to spend half an hour explaining that Kia now make decent cars. This uncoolness does mean they loose their value a lot.

The reason the German stuff is not selling is they were always overpriced. Who in the right mind would pay £18k for a new Audi A3. Its a small hatchback!!! For that money I would expect a limo or something that can do 155mph and get there in less than 10 seconds.
In Shock! - qxman {p}
I like Kias.
The problem I have with these far east brands is at a dinner table in
your nice suburban three ben room semi when Mr and Mrs smith ask what car
you bought you a Kia. You then have to spend half an hour explaining that
Kia now make decent cars. This uncoolness does mean they loose their value a lot.


I'm not bothered about 'coolness' but I can't see a strong reason to buy a Kia. I have driven a Cee'd and a Magnetis. The Cee'd was OK and the Magentis just about acceptable.
The snag for Kia is that there are good alternatives already on the market. I can buy a Focus or Astra and have a dealer just down the road and cheap parts from a local motor factor. Better still I could buy something like a Skoda Octavia, basically a MkV Golf. Got a local GSF and also a ECP, so cheap parts if I need them and any Skoda, VW, Seat garage can help you out.
Most factors don't stock parts for Kias and my local dealer is at least half an hour away, and then no doubt they stock much.
There is just no sufficiently compelling reason to buy one, not saying they are not a decent enough car.
In Shock! - captain chaos
Just because some like to pay more for "the Badge" doesn't necessarily mean they're getting a better car. My boss had an M3 on contract hire a few years ago and had to have major engine work every year because of a design fault. All cars depreciate, some more than others but I'd rather have one that didn't cost a fortune to repair than one that impressed the neighbours
In Shock! - Pica
With the price of fuel dropping there may be a turnaround making the larger cars more attractive again.
In Shock! - Bagpuss
The problem I have with these far east brands is at a dinner table in
your nice suburban three ben room semi when Mr and Mrs smith ask what car
you bought you a Kia.


I must lead a sheltered life. I can't remember anyone ever asking me what car I drive, at dinner tables or anywhere else.
In Shock! - stunorthants26
Ive not had one negative comment from a customer about my Charade - one of my richest customers ( and we are talking tens of millions ) was facinated by it and was asking me questions for a good half hour about what its like to own - he drives a Jag.

From my point of view, I look at people who, especially those buying Audi/VW, are complete fools for buying the same car, just more expensive. It makes no sense whatsoever other than to say either you have more money than sense, or just that you have no sense and are now poorer on account of it. Thats not an image id like to portray.
Also, spending money on 'image' brands only seems to largely appeal to men, trying to impress other men - I know a lot of women and big, expensive cars do not impress.
In Shock! - Alanovich
Not sure I agree stu. I know a fair few school run Mums down here in the Home Counties who are very conscious about the brand of car/4x4 they drive.

I don't see VW as a prestige brand, but I am a fan of VAG group cars and would have a Skoda or SEAT above a VW on most occasions, however we have a VW at the moment as there isn't a direct alternative to the Touran 7-seater from Skoda or Seat, which is a shame. Nearest is an Altea XL, but you can't get a 7-seat version. I do see Audi as a prestige brand and probably wouldn't buy one because of that.
In Shock! - stunorthants26
>>Not sure I agree stu. I know a fair few school run Mums down here in the Home Counties who are very conscious about the brand of car/4x4 they drive.<<

Perhaps living in rural Northants, I dont come across 'those' sort of school run mums.
I know plenty of them, many customers, but they have 3 or more children and as such, could never consider a car as small as mine. I guess that image matters to those who can afford it.
In Shock! - Waino
Mrs W teaches part-time at a private school (and to redress the balance, p/t at the local prison) and laughs about the moneyed yummy mummies driving their vast 4x4s up the school drive in a line as though they were on safari. They nearly all have them!

Not sure what the prisoners relatives drive - probably something similar ;-)
In Shock! - ifithelps
.... Mrs W teaches part-time at a private school (and to redress the balance p/t at the local prison)....

Not unknown for cons to spend their ill-gotten on school fees, so Mrs W might see more of little Tamara's father than the child's mother does. :)

Edited by ifithelps on 21/11/2008 at 20:03

In Shock! - Alby Back
We have loads of 'em round here. I think my cars offend them. Well I hope so anyway.....

;-)
In Shock! - movilogo
The problem I have with these far east brands is at a dinner table in


It definitely depends on whom you dine with then :)

In my office, there are people from all over the world. Guy driving a Merc S class and another with a Kia Picanto dine on same table without anyone feeling ashamed of his car's brand.

There are lots of people, who has different priorities than spending money on cars.

It's a classless society in cosmopolitan world.

Edited by movilogo on 21/11/2008 at 11:44

In Shock! - joshua
HI Fullchat,

Did you get your part ex price from a dealer in Mere ?

Just curious after a chat I had there today.

Regards
In Shock! - Fullchat
Hi Joshua

No it was Hull
In Shock! - joshua
Hi Fullchat,

The reason I asked was, when discussing part ex prices the salesman went onto tell me that they had only offered £5k for the same vehicle as yours, the reason he gave was high tax and customers shying away from the larger 4x4, apart from that he said it was a good reliable machine !
In Shock! - Mr X
You're not the only one in shock. 2004 Merc ML270 CDi bought for £14,000 in April ( all the extras inc leather. ) 55,000 on the clock and so far had two £5,000 offers and a sorry, can't take it in.
In Shock! - gordonbennet
FC,

As promised a couple of days ago, my sons mate is getting the one just under sport spec with the 1.6 diesel, and all the goodies.
I assume thats the same as you were quoted on, it appears that they found an online supplier at 14K or thereabouts and after some calls to another online company they managed to get the same car for 13.5K.

In Shock! - jase1
I've owned a Hyundai and a Daewoo, though not a Kia. Find some of the comments about image, and what others say quite interesting.

In my experience, the typical response from a non-motorhead on discovering what types of cars I have:

Hyundai: "Oh, Japanese, very reliable cars". Explain it's Korean, and they say "oh, same thing".

Daewoo: "A Daewoo you say? So what are they like then?". A few have actually commented to say that the Nubira(!!!!!) is a decent looking car. This I cannot comprehend, but I'm not complaining.

Korean cars don't suffer from a negative image in my experience -- only a lack thereof. Hyundai seem to be thought of as much the same as Nissan were ten years ago, no-one's ever really thought about Daewoo and I'd imagine that Kia probably have the better image of the three now with the seven year warranties etc.
In Shock! - Rattle
I sort of agree but many of the people I know are into brands and like pedagree. Most the eastern cars lack this. I have a friend who has owned a Peogueot 206 GTI for the past for years, it has been completly trouble free apart from it needing a new injector which cost less than £100 fully fitted from a main dealer. He paid £4k 3 years ago for the car and it still looks brand new.

To him a Nissan is a joke, no charector and perceived reliability, his Peogueot has been as reliable any any other car and this the problem I have,

Nissan or Ford I cannot justify any car costing more than £200 for a service and what pusts me of those import cars such as Kia is part prices, People can saty as much as they want about Ford but out of all the many customers I have the most satisfied custumers seem to be Ford owners because parts and labour are so cheap. This won't happen with Kias etc.

I am a big fan of the Kia ceed I think it is a massive step forward the problem is Ford etc come up woth a new car for the sam e prrice which is even better, it may not habve a 7 year warrarnty but I knoew afte3 years old it will sell.

Mt mechanic has often made thius point toio, if a cambelt snaps on a Zetec fiesta the max it will cost is £300 inc labour for a good cylinder head from a crappy, if this happens on a more unusual car you are looking £1k plus as the are no spare parts.

In Shock! - jase1
Parts prices again?

Let me just interject here: As some of you may know my old Woo developed a few faults recently. It's an eleven year old car, these things happen. New wishbone, oil leak around the camshaft seal and because of this I sorted a new cambelt kit on it. At the same time my mechanic changed the fanbelt and did an oil and filter change on the car.

Total cost £230. I priced up the same job on a Vauxhall Astra of the same age. £230.

Yes, the parts prices on the Daewoo were EXACTLY THE SAME AS A VAUXHALL.

So forgive me for treating these comments about parts prices with the contempt they deserve. The differences are dwarfed by the labour costs.

In my experience, the parts costs are cheaper on Hyundais and Daewoos than they are on Renaults and Nissans.

Re the cambelt comment -- all I can say is that if you buy a chain-cam car in good order in the first place, this should not be an issue. This is where Nissans (and Mazdas, Hondas and Toyotas) really score -- their engines are so quiet that any faults are immediately obvious. Vauxhall and Ford engines are inherently more clattery and noises can be just normal.
In Shock! - Rattle
The Daweoo is based on a lot of GM parts, so servicing and parts are easy. This Kia is a bit different as it is newer (applies to any newer cars though).

However the general public still perceive Korean cars as harder to get parts for (the technical forum here some evidence of this) and this is one of the factors that drive prices down.
In Shock! - jase1
Incidentally as far as I am concerned his French bucket is a joke. Horses for courses.

Edited by jase1 on 22/11/2008 at 02:57

In Shock! - Fullchat
Thanks gb. Yes its the same model - the LS. So thats £2,245 under the showroom price I was given. Which in real terms values my Sorento at £2,755.
Makes the option of parking mine up, shopping around and an outright buy and then selling mine as and when, at a realistic bargain price, even more attractive!

Edited by Fullchat on 21/11/2008 at 21:47

In Shock! - gramar
Fullchat,

You've been unlucky in that the whole economy is in recession and a recession that came on very fast indeed and has caught us all out. In better times you'd get a better deal. But hey why feel sorry for the motor dealer. Kias are great cars. We've had two and they were no problem. Do as I do keep you cars until they get to the stage where they start to cost money (over and above routine servicing costs) - thats usually about 100k miles /10 years. That way you don't lose out so much. If everyone kept their cars a lot longer the car market would be better for it. The only reason it's suffering now is due to rapid growth and readily accesible finance. Now the party's over and something/someone has to give way . Don't let it be you - keep you money in your pocket and sit this one out is my advice.
In Shock! - oilrag
" I guess that image matters to those who can afford it."

Not always!
True class is not showing your wealth.
;)

Edited by oilrag on 22/11/2008 at 12:46

In Shock! - gordonbennet
FC, further info, i spoke to my lads mate today and he tells me that they have done the whole deal including trade in with the online company.

Apparently the company has given a reasonable trade in offer and they, his company that is providing the car, are very pleased overall.

Its either buyacar.com or newcaronline.com

Don't for a minute think that i have those speelings correct, i'm sure you'll find them if you think its worth a look.
 

Value my car