I am contemplating upgrading my halogens to HIDs but am finding it difficult to find someone who can do the job in the London area. Does anyone know a specialist who could carry out the job on a BMW 5 (E39)?
BMW don't offer an upgrade so rather typically say that it can't be done!
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HID driving lights for universal fit can be bought from motorsport outlets. These are available in a variety of beam patterns, but a set of lights will cost you about £500 plus. On top of this you've got to fit them.
To convert to the later type headlights fitted by BMW will cost a real bundle - if it can be done at all.
How about this for an alternative: I use PIAA Super White Platinum bulbs. They have a much higher colour temp than conventional halogen (3800 Kelvin) and so give off about twice the light for the same wattage. They are available in various wattages (lower wattages are E marked). I run the most powerful version which pulls 80/80 watts (in H4 form) but performs like a 135/115. The light output is really white - makes standard halogen bulbs look yellow. They perform superbly.
Unfortunately here in the UK these are around £90 a pair - try the various motorsport outlets (eg www.demon-tweeks.co.uk). I got mine from Romeo Off Road, Michigan for $70 (about £40) cash. He did say if I ever wanted anything else he'd happily take Mastercard over the phone and post stuff to the UK (He offered to send me a crate of Mobil 1 for about half the cost per litre we pay here!!). Try them on 001 810 336 1749. Even if customs stiff you for the vat, they'll still be about half what you'd pay here.
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Im sorry but I must be missing something here! Are you suggesting that you can pay over £500 for a set of headlamps. I looked at these new Philips lamps in Halfords ONCE and decided that ordinary Halogens had a lot going for them. Can these lights be worth that much more? I would suggest not, in which case send send 1/2 of the money saved to my at; (email me for my address) and I will buy another banger car to last me the next three years of cheap motoring.
Bill
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PS: the part number for the H$ 80/80 is 15680. You'll probably want the H1 or H7 version, but that reference will help you find the right section in PIAAs catalogue.
Let us know what you decide.
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I have already upgraded the bulbs Philip's Super Duper increase luminosity by 30% etc etc.
However, I want to change the whole light unit - not just the bulb - so that it can take xenons, which are much more powerful than halogen bulbs that contain a bit of xenon gas.
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I changed from 120/80 Xenons to the PIAAs. I promise you, these PIAAs make make even non E marked xenons seem dim by comparison.I'd cry if I had to go back to 65/55 H4s!!
I changed primarily to get improved dip beam for those occasions when there's something coming the other way (my car already has 4 main beams). I also made sure the lamps were carefully aligned so the cut off is JUST below horizontal (standard is 1.6 deg down which cuts range considerably) - that way the MoT is satisfied and I get max range.
An old rallying trick is also to re-wire your dip beam so it stays on when main beam is selected (it goes off as standard) - big help in corners. If you do this, make sure you make it a selectable feature via a switch & relay and uprate fuses as necessary. Be VERY careful if you have plastic lenses - you could melt them.
The HID lamps now being fitted are only about 50% brighter than halogens. Their main benefit is that the emitted spectrum contains a greater proportion of blue light, mimicking daylight better than halogen (there are legal limits on headlight output - that's why high power bulbs are not road legal). The other benefit is that the current consumption is halved for this increase in light - this cuts the power sapped from the engine thus contributing to improved economy. With the ultra high power PIAAs you will get nearly the same lighting performance as HIDs at about 10 - 20% of the cost.
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When supplied on new cars, Xenons have to be self-levelling. My BMW has an electric motor (or 2) which performs this. Don't know whether this requirement applies to after-market kits but it should do, to avoid dazzling other drivers. Although Xenons are good, I wouldn't spend £500-1000 on an upgrade especially as it might be inferior to the factory fitted Xenons.
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I see on PIAA site they are advertising aftermarket HID bulbs which genuinely replace the originals using the original lens reflector etc. eg H7s. Must be the proper stuff as they have the extreme high voltage supply, but as you say no self levelling.
I guess when the Kev's of this world get their hands on this stuff we can expect severe cases of arc eye in night time driving. (Apologies to Kev Towle I don't include you in that comment ;-)
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£983 plus carriage !! They do appear to be genuine HID bulbs which plug into the existing harness using an in-line ballast and, as you say, the existing reflectors. Given that BMW (and others, presumably) use a substantial ballast and specially designed reflectors, it is possible that performance has been compromised for ease of fitting. No mention of whether they're legal. Still, at £983, I don't think we'll see many of them. I did notice that they sell a baseball cap for £9.40 - essential attire I think.
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keithb,
nine hundred and blankety blank pounds! yikes!
where did you get your price from? I didn't see any prices on PIAA site, or did you look at such as Demon Tweeks?
some of the US dealers I looked at were approx $ 80 US for the bulbs Cyd mentioned.
I trust the baseball cap comes with fitting instructions re front and back ;-) hur hur
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Flat in Fifth,
Almost choked on my beer when I saw the price.
Prices are on the PIAA site but well hidden, not surprisingly (and they don't include VAT or carriage) :
www.piaa.co.uk/catalog/prices/retailprices.htm
Couldn't find Cyd's part no. for his bulbs but there's a pair for £72.50 plus VAT which could be the ones.
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I think that I might just stick with the Halogens then. I have changed the bulbs already along the lines as discussed many times on the board. I will just have to drive slower at night!
I also think that there may be a problem with the units. When I turn the lights on they go up and down to find their correct position (I was told this was not self levelling by the dealer as this would not be fitted with halogens). However the reach of the drivers side dipped beam only stretches the distance of 1-1½ cat's eyes on an M-way. (will check when next serviced)
Thanks for your advice (ie too expensive for what it gives). Guess you're right and suppose that I could always use fog lights to help see more!!!!
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CM
It does sound like the current lights need the alignment checked. It's amazing how many times lights seem to leave the factory incorrectly adjusted, never mind getting misaligned in use as suspension settles for example. Vey often 'poor' lights are fine, but are simply not putting the light where it's needed.
Regards
John S
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I have had them realigned THREE times. I think it is the bit that levels the lights that is knocking them out of sync.
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I also think that there may be a problem with the units. When I turn the lights on they go up and down to find their correct position (I was told this was not self levelling by the dealer as this would not be fitted with halogens).
That's exactly what my 3 series Xenons do. Very odd as your dealer is right and AFAIK self-levelling isn't even an option without the Xenons. On my car, the self-levelling operates as soon as the sidelights are switched on i.e. no need to switch ignition on. Try standing outside the car and switch the lights on. The self-levelling makes a distinct whirring sound as it moves up and down. Only things I can think of are :
1. Your car has Xenons fitted.
2. Your car did have Xenons but has been changed to halogen.
3. The factory made a mistake when they built the car.
None of these sound likely but, from your description, you do seem to have self-levelling and, if so, I would guess that would not align halogens correctly. The dealer doesn't sound very helpful - what does he suggest is causing the lights to go up and down? Please let us know the outcome.
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The car is an estate with self levelling rear suspension (presumably when it has a full load the suspension firms up).
I am getting very confused.
All I know is that when another car approaches I can't see the road. It is usually OK in good conditions but when the road is wet....
Yes - I have had an eye test recently and there is no problem there!
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You probably don't have self-levelling lights fitted but you might have a dashboard control to raise & lower them manually. I had a similar problem to yours on my Saab 9-3 TiD - one of the lights would move up & down of its own accord, it was a simple case of cleaning the switch internals to solve the problem.
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The dash mount is properly set and I don't ever touch these.
I wish my car had the same halogens in my dad's Land Rover!
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The dash mount is properly set and I don't ever touch these.
Have you tried touching it and seeing what happens? My Vectra handbook recomends the knob be set to "0" when the car is unladen of passengers and luggage. However, to avoid cars flashing at me for dazzling them, I have the knob usually set on position "1" or "2" as position "0" is set too high.
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I have to do much the same with my swb Rav4. In fact (and this is my only real complaint about the Rav) on the recommended setting, high beam seems to leave an area of unilluminated road about 50 yards in front of the car -- ie beyond the first area of light and before the main beam hits the road surface.
Martyn [Back Room moderator]
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mailto:webmaster@honestjohn.co.uk
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Just as a suggestion from an old bodger, what about
Aiming the lights higher by adjusting with the under bonnet alignment wossnames.
Get them high enough so that on 0 you are definitely getting flashed then find the setting 1,2,3 where you are not flashed.
Park in front of the garage doors with the lights so set, and mark the doors with some tape.
Now set the adjustemnt to zero and adjust the lights with the under bonnet adjusters back to the bits of tape. That works for me anyway.
Of course if you want to refine further you can then wind the lights back up the equiv of half a notch on the dashboard adjuster and see what happens.
Reiterate until
a) you get bored
b) SWMBO starts complaining
c) Kids want driving somewhere.
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You don't need to touch it, the switch just goes dodgy even if left at the same setting. As someone else suggested, try it & see what happens.
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My cousin has a recent 3 series, without the xenon lamps. However, I'm sure it has self levelling. The lights definitely go through some sort of 'levelling' process when switched on.
Regards
John S
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It sounds as though you have adjustable headlamps which can be worked from a switch on the dashboard. Your dealer is right that they are not self levelling but as you load up the vehicle you can move the switch to the best position for the load and the electric motors do the rest.
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The part number I quoted was from the box the bulbs came in. They are the Platinum Super White in 80/80 watt form. These bulbs are very high power and are not E-marked, which means they are not road legal. I see on PIAAs site they now do Extreme White. All these bulbs are aimed at the motorsport user (or off roaders in the USA) hence the high cost (£90 a pair).
The dip beam performance of these bulbs is fantastic and well worth it if you drive unlit roads a lot at night. I now get about 120 metres effective range on dip beam - enough to pull up from about 85 on dry surfaces. With 120/80 watt xenon bulbs (not E-marked 'cos of high power) the effective range was about 90 metres.
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You seem to be very keen on PIAA but maybe you should check out the link!! I personally use the Phillips Vision Plus.
www.autoexpress.co.uk/front_index.php?cp=1&page=ht...p
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I had a quick search following on from the other posts and unbelivable prices quoted for a set of bulbs. I found that the bulbs that would be the most use in the UK run at a colour temp of about 2500K rather than the 4500/5000K that these bulbs run at. Its so wet and moist in the UK for the majority of the year that all these high temperature bulbs will do is reflect the light back at you in the slightest foggy conditions. When you commute to work over the M62 every day these 5000K bulbs woudln't do at all. H4's are bad enough on dip.
Bill
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I think you are confusing road legal and non road legal bulbs. Yes the Philips won the test against an E-marked PIAA. These are not the same PIAA bulbs as I use. Autoexpress, of course, will only test legal bulbs because they cannot encourage illegal bulb use.
Headlight bulbs are subject to a legal maximum light output in order to be road legal and therefore E-marked. The PIAA Super Whites in the test were subject to this maxima just the same as all the other bulbs in the test.
The bulbs I use are PIAA Platinum Super White and have a light output far higher than the legal maximum. That\'s why they are \'better\' than the PVPs and why they are NOT road legal and why they are aimed at the motorsport user.
If you want the best light output from legal bulbs then go for the PVPs. If you want even more light output then you have to consider your attitude toward using non-legal bulbs on the road.
FiF reiterated my suggestion for very carefully aligning the lights. This does work and yields considerable extra range. Martyn could solve his problem by wiring the dip beam filament to stay on with the main beam, again as previously suggested.
All headlights now have to have some form of levelling, which can be automatic (ie motorised) or manual (switch on dash) or self levelling suspension. It\'s meant to be used when the car is loaded. Bet most people don\'t realise this.
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And this has been a EU legal reqirement on all new cars since about 1996.
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The E-marking regulations have been in existance for a couple of decades. It was only in 1995 though that it actually became illegal to use non-E-marked bulbs on the road. Indeed, it's only illegal if your car was first registered during or after 1995 - perfectly legal in cars registered in 1994 or earlier.
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"All headlights now have to have some form of levelling, which can be automatic (ie motorised) or manual (switch on dash) or self levelling suspension. It's meant to be used when the car is loaded. Bet most people don't realise this."
Cyd,
You might not know the answer to this but on my next Mundano which has self levelling as std, will the manual dash adjustment therefore be missing or disabled?
Plus what do you get with self levelling & HID as standard?
Just a thought?
Ciao,
FiF
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On BMWs with HID, you don't get a manual control, possibly because it's not allowed under EU rules on Xenons? What you do get though is a simple switch on the lamps to alter the beam for driving on the right. Very handy except, even with the handbook, I can't work out how to do it and don't want to force it and break the switch off. Been waiting for 17 months until I have to visit a dealer but nothing's gone wrong with the car so it'll probably have to wait until the first service at 2 years.
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Been waiting for 17 months until I have to visita dealer but nothing's gone wrong with the car so it'll probably have to wait until the first service at 2 years.
I sincerely hope you are joking about this ...
or is there a 'laid up and rarely used as I'm out of the country' reason?
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Ian,
No joke. Current BMW 3 series display the no. of miles to next service and the type of service. When new, the car showed the first service at 13700 miles but the computer has gradually reduced this such that current mileage is 8700 and next (first) service is due 4000 miles from now. I probable won't have quite done 12700 miles by the time the car is 2 years old but BMW specify an oil change at 2 years for cars which do a low mileage so I'll have the first (minor) service done then. A brake fluid change is also due every 2 years.
The question of oil change frequency and whether makers such as BMW are not considering the long-term effect on engine life has been discussed here before as I'm sure you know. I must admit that 2 years goes against the grain so I'm planning to do an interim oil/filter change myself shortly and then annually mid-way between dealer services. I'll feel comfortable with that using Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel.
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Ian and CM:
Service at 2 years is fine in this case - provided you are not the owner when the car reaches 100,000 miles plus. Engine damage due to low mileage and infrequent servicing is unlikely to become apparent until the car has done 100k plus miles.
However, if the car is being used for short stop/start journeys, without getting the catalyser up to full temperature, the cat maight need replacing at an early stage. The engine will also suffer high wear due to running at cold temperatures, but not enough to worry the owner who changes the car at 60,000 miles (10 years at 6,000 miles a year). 60,000 miles is the limit for BMW approved second hand cars, which tells you something that BMW know regarding risk of problems with higher mileage cars.
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Don't know about current cars, but hidden in the handbook for my '99 BMW is the recommendation to have an annual oil change where the car does <6k/year, in addition to services as per the service indicator.
The mileage limit for BMW Approved used cars has fairly recently been increased 100k miles.
Regards
John S
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John S:
You may be right about the 100k extension.
My 523i Sport with FBMWSH and 98k miles has just gone over the "3 years since registration" point.
In the letter inviting me to extend its warranty, BMW's condition was "your vehicle must have covered less than 60,000 miles".
Clearly BMW do not want my money to insure it for another year under their warranty scheme, as they do not consider the risk worthwhile. Instead, I had it warranted by AXA via Lumley Insurance Consultants.
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Let me try to answer several queries at once:
The legislation regarding headlight leveling started off in Germany, but I believe it is now pan-European. Unfortunately I am off work at the moment so do not have access to the legislation library nor my Bosch Automotive Handbook, but as I understand it ALL dipped beam headlamps fitted to new cars MUST HAVE a leveling mechanism to compensate for varying load conditions. This can be achieved by the manufacturer in one of three ways:
1. The lamps may be manually adjustable from the cockpit. This usually takes the form of a motor unit in each lamp controlled by a thumbwheel on the dash.
2. The lamps may automatically adjust. This usually takes the form of a motor unit in each lamp controlled by a level-sensing device somewhere in the car – no intervention from the driver is required.
3. The car can be fitted with self leveling rear suspension. The headlamps may be adjust-and-forget types.
So, if you find your new car has no thumbwheel on the dash, it most likely has self leveling headlamps, but may alternately have self leveling suspension. If the spec sheet says it has either self leveling lamps or self leveling suspension then don’t expect to find a thumbwheel as well.
The regulation applies to ALL dipped beam lamps whether you’re burning candles or arc lamps.
It may be that the regulation requires xenons to have self leveling (but don't know for sure at the moment).
I would imagine all lamps to have a level adjuster within the lamp to adjust the base setting (may need special tool).
Hope this helps. I'll look at the reg if I can when I return to work and if there's anything different I'll report in.
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I recently contacted Eurolights and they offer a very easy to fit upgrade for HID Xenon lamps for about £300 inclusive of international shipping. Here's the brief details....
EuroLights G2 RealHID(tm) 6000K+ Direct Plug In Systems-- High Intensity Discharge (HID) is a type of lighting technology that uses xenon gas to create light rather than a filament like traditional bulbs. The ignition of this gas when high voltage is applied produces an arc of extremely bright light.
The light output of EuroLights RealHID Xenon systems is over four times that of a standard halogen bulbs and 20% brighter than other hid systems. There is nothing brighter available, the absolute maximum performance.
RealHID systems include: 2x ArcXenon(tm) bulbs, 2x ballasts, 2x wiring harness, & complete quick install manual.
Price G2 RealHID(tm) : $469.00 per kit (complete kit) FREE EXPRESS International Shipping
($469.00 is a Limited Time Offer)
Check out Eurolights.com for further details..
Simon
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Try a visit to
www.hids4less.com
They seem to have a wide range of products and with the dollar at 1.59 could be an attractive price!
pmh (was peter)
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