>>If the owner was not actually the thief and had acquired the bike under certain circumstances surely you may have been equally guilty >>of 'theft'. What happened to the concept of market ouvert??????? Can it still be applied?
'Marché ouvert' was abolished in 1995 by the Sale of Goods (Amendment) Act 1994
Police should have set a trap though!
And asked for proof that Dr Rubber owned the bike - such as a postcode stamp on the bike and matching bill from home or copy driving licence.
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'Police should have set a trap though'
you are joking.
have 2 police officers wait 2,4,6,8 hours nearby?
Despite the obvious waste of resources ,this sort of operation would have required a RIPA, in otherwords a superintendants authority to make sure that law abiding ,members of the public going about there business would not have have had their rights violated by police officers observing that particular area....
This would never have been authorised and if it was it would have meant a shed load of paperwork afterwards by the PC and the Supt
welcome to 21st century policing
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Whilst you retrieved the cycle with the help of the police is this action legal in its own right? If the owner was not actually the thief and had acquired the bike under certain circumstances surely you may have been equally guilty of 'theft'. >>
Once something is stolen, it remains stolen forever (until formally recovered of course) and does not matter how many times a bona fide honest person buys it/acquires it. That is the reason why you should take care when buying anything, particularly something expensive like a car as if you pay good money for a stolen one, the original owner can lay claim to, it at any time and you have no right to it whatsoever. All you can do is sue the seller, if you can find them.
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forgot to say that it happened to a local shopkeeper, near where i live, last year. £9,000 worth of 3 series BMW bought out of the paper. He lost the lot and had the hassle of near arrest too. Expensive way of learning a lesson. I felt sorry for him as he's an honest man just trying to earn his keep.
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Once something is stolen, it remains stolen forever (until formally recovered of course) and does not matter how many times a bona fide honest person buys it/acquires it.
How does this apply to goods sold in disposal auctions eg Police, Customs? and then sold on. Or does that count as 'formally recovered?
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pmh (was peter)
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>>How does this apply to goods sold in disposal auctions eg Police, Customs? and then sold on.
>>Or does that count as 'formally recovered?
A lot of those kind of goods are items that have been seized for reasons other than theft. Customs stuff in particular is normally something to do with a tax fiddle etc.
The vast majority of stolen items that the police recover are reunited with their former owners because the reason that they know they are stolen is because the rightful owner has reported it and has then already laid claim to it should it be found.
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This has nothing to do with bike theft, but is, I think, the funniest quote I have ever read. Not a direct ad verbatim, just the gist, from the fine Northumberland Gazette.
A cat was found in Alnmouth, presumed lost.... and happily was returned to it's owner in Alnwick. The police quote? "I saw that cat, and I recognised it from Alnwick".
Fantastic...
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Just check your bag in at Heathrow and watch all your legal rights disappear
What doesnt get nicked will be sold on by the airport
Staggering that they get away with it
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How does this apply to goods sold in disposal auctions eg Police Customs? and then sold on. Or does that count as 'formally recovered?
The issue of title is a somewhat interesting legal dilemma. Basically you cannot sell that which you do not own. So though the person may have bought it in good faith and provided valid consideration, the seller did not have title to transfer, so the new owner (assuming in this case it was not the thief himself) should go to the thief who sold it to him and get a refund. And the goods go back to the owner.
Obviously this can result in unfair situations where honest people lose thousands of pounds (because thief has scarpered), but the original owner has done nothing wrong and title should remain with him.
In this case I'm surprised the police would just let the owner take the bike, as he has no way of proving that it is his. I would have imagined the police would interview the owner/thief, thief says "i bought this a couple of years ago", and then nothing you can do (apart from kidnap the bike back covertly).
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Well, if the new "owner" did buy it honestly (in three days?), I feel a bit sorry for him. If it was the scrote that nicked it - tough! The lock looked like an expensive rope lock, but a very large set of bolt cutters took care of it.
As for proving my ownership, I have a reciept with the frame number written on it, from a cycle shop matching the sticker on the frame. The police knew my name, address, crime number (logging frame number) etc. There are also a couple of other identifying features that make it fairly unique. As you say, without this it would have been my word against whoevers.
To be honest, I was supprised I could just cut and run. I was expecting to have the bike taken into "custody" until I could prove ownership. To be honest I didn't care what happened, providing I got it back. I was also very pleased the new "owner" did not make an appearance as it could have got nasty.
Joe
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I'm often amazed at the lengths some people go to get a 'bargain' and then run the risk of being ripped off or buying something stolen
my wife says i'm too harsh on people and that not everyone thinks like me, which may be fair enough, although i genuinely don't understand it......if i want a bicycle i'd buy one in a bicycle shop or similar and could then take it back and moan if something went wrong... i couldn't care less if it was cheaper in more dubious circumstances, the peace of mind would be worth it
I strongly suspect the thought of a 'saving' seriously clouds some peoples judgement, how else could otherwise sensible businessmen fall for the Nigerian money transfer scams, for example
....granny used to say "If it seems too good to be true, it usually is" and she was right.
the other thing is if so called honest folk didn't buy stolen stuff there'd be no market for it would there, buying hookey goods fuels the thefts of them
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Stuff gets 'laundered' remarkably quickly though, and the guy may have paid quite a good price for it in a reputable shop, after two or three rapid changes of ownership.
I had £300 worth of travellers' cheques stolen from my shoulder bag at Lagos airport once having gone there to send a text to London bypassing the Nigerian post. I think they were stolen by an undercover security policeman chatting up the English teachers I gave my letter to, but that's another story. The point is they were cashed in Bombay the same evening.
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Stolen and unreturned property held by the Police (Seized property) and Found Property is disposed of quite lawfully under the Police Property Act 1997
www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1997/1997030.htm
There is probably (but I can't be bothered to look) a piece of legistlation that covers unclaimed property from various Transport providers....I know its true for Railways but I would lose the will to live if I started looking, someone would then find it and try and sell it on though knowing my luck :-)
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All this fuss!
Has nobody heard of www.freecycle.org & yes there ARE bikes as well as other stuff there!!
VB
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Does this mean that once 'stolen' property has passed thro police hands and then sold off, any subsequent owner becomes the rightful owner and the property cannot be reclaimed by the original owner? What about if the police pass an item back to a finder?
Or if the original owner then spots it for sale he can he can then just seize it, as with the bicycle above? Looks like a can of worms or a licence for lawyers to make money;)
If you have come 'unknowingly' into possession of any iffy article the best thing to do is to hand it in as lost / found and hope to take ownership at the end of 12 months.
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pmh (was peter)
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