Yes, I was searching the forum and came up with that as well. Does it need to be at a MB dealer, or can an independent with diagnotics deal with it?
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Yes certainly ,there is a very good one in here in Leeds ,do not go to mercedes .
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Thanks.
The car is at an independent garage in London, so Leeds, or even Manchester where I know of a good Merc specialist, are too far away. Lets hope it is sorted quickly and cheaply!.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Do let us know what the outcome is, Espada. Five years old and only 8k on the clock, eh? I wonder if the failure has anything to do with under-use. If you tell me where the car is, I may be able to identify a good independent.
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Ah ha. MercStar in Harrow are highly recommended:
www.mercstar-uk.com/
and are in the MB Club Good Garage Guide, only courtesy of repeated members' recommendations.
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Thanks Rog.
If the current garage is no use, we'll take it there.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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MAF sensor? I think Merc use the same one as VAG that is well known for failure. Although this one has gone into limp home mode, so it might be something else....
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RichardW
Is it illogical? It must be Citroen....
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Andy
any chance of naming Leeds specialist as I am well P d of with MB in North east
THANKS
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Perhaps it's this one:
www.merc-care.com/
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To be honest this fault could be so many things that its just not worth speculating. Personally I would be looking for a Diesel specialist, rather than an MB specialist (if you see what I mean..).
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They are speculating that the injectors are faulty...MiL says that a few weeks ago the car would drive very slowly, then take off like a scalded cat without any further pressure on the accelerator.
Does this sound right?
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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They are speculating that the injectors are faulty...MiL says that a few weeks ago the car would drive very slowly, then take off like a scalded cat without any further pressure on the accelerator. Does this sound right? -- Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
Well, that sounds more like a fault with the drive-by-wire throttle to me. If there was an injector fault and it went into 'limp home' I would expect it to stay right down on power (i.e. in LH mode) until turned off and restarted. Of course your garage have got the obvious advantage of having the car right in from of the them, so I could be totally wrong.
Mind you, I have to confess a lack of knowledge and dislike of this CR system. They don't seem that reliable to me and anytime one goes wrong the repair bills spiral toward four figures. I had a 'close shave' with an auction-bought C-class CDI that nearly cost me £700 to fix....Managed to sort it myself and sell it on in the end though. Will avoid in future. All only IMHO, of course.
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According to MiL this evening, a Mercedes engineer happened to drop into the garage when the car was being worked on. He agreed that the problem was the injectors which are clogged and which will cost £1500 to fix. The problem is apparantly due to the car being left standing for too long.
I know that cars standing for too long can have problems, but the car has done over 2,500 miles, mostly on motorways since purchase so am surprised at this problem.
I'm sceptical but like Aprilia, I'm not near the car.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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I don't believe the 'standing too long' bit. The fuel is well filtered before it gets to the injectors - so what is in there to clog them? If the car is not used, then the fuel just sits there - it is a completely sealed system.
If the injectors 'clog' then IMHO it means swarf is reaching them from disintegrating component/s upstream! Don't put a new set of injectors in unless you are sure of the fault! If the system is throwing out swarf then the new injectors will be ruined in short order and you'll be hit with another bill.
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Yes, I am confused as well. Unfortunately I'm too far away and do not know the garage to advise.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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I have spoken to my MiL and I will speak to the garage tomorrow am, before they order the injectors.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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But cannot diesel injectors be tested: re spray pattern etc? If so, and bowing to others greater knowledge, the garage need to do some simple tests (or have them done) before asking for the most expensive "solution"! Bosch and others have such test facilities, and the injectors can be ultrasonically cleaned, IIRC.
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'Old style' Diesel injectors can be tested. We used to have the tackle to do it. It was a jig with a glass dome. You mounted the injector on it (upside down) put the dome back on and pulled down on a lever at the side which pressurised a small quantity of fuel and forced it through the injector. You could watch the spray pattern through the dome. My father also used to recon the injectors (this was mainly for the commercial vehicles we serviced). I'm going back at least 20 years.
The problem with the Merc CDI, like other CR Diesels, is that these are mega-high-tech injectors. The system runs at 1350bar pressure (that's about 20000psi). I would think that there are few places that have the equipment or expertise to test and/or recon them. In fact I would think recon is done back at the factory, if at all.
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Is there no way you could get it relayed back up to your local guy? A couple of hundred there but it puts you in the hands of someone you trust so might be the long term economic option.
It's a few miles away from you but Woodhouse Garage in Norden are just the business - got all the diagnostics kit you need but a really proper family business that will be dead straight with you. I can't recommend them highly enough. I have no connection, only happy customer etc..
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'Old style' Diesel injectors can be tested. We used to have the tackle to do it. It was a jig with a glass dome. You mounted the injector on it (upside down) put the dome back on and pulled down on a lever at the side which pressurised a small quantity of fuel and forced it through the injector. You could watch the spray pattern through the dome. My father also used to recon the injectors (this was mainly for the commercial vehicles we serviced). I'm going back at least 20 years.
Years ago, I made up a tool to test old style injectors, using some workshop scrap metal and one pumping element from an old Bosch PE injector pump, and a 5000 psi pressure gauge. It was quite crude, but it enabled me to be able to set crack off pressure and observe the spray pattern of the injectors I was working with.
One tip for spotting injectors which were sticking open was to stop the engine, and then take off the injector pipes. Upon cranking the engine, if any of the injectors blew fuel out backwards, you knew they were stuck open. This was particularly common on the AEC engines where injector overheating was very problematic.
However, as Aprilia says, the modern CR injectors are a different technology.
Sorry not to be of direct help to Espada, but I'm on a bit of a nostalgia trip tonight - aided by some very tasty Ardbeg single malt!
Number_Cruncher
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£1500? That's appalling and it sounds all too like what some have termed "a credit-card fix". Get a second opinion. If the "independent garage in London" is neither an MB nor a diesel specialist, get a second opinion even faster. It's not far to Harrow, presumably, even if that requires trucking or towing?
I respect Aprilia's scepticism about the low-mileage factor, but I wonder whether degraded fuel could have played a part if the car was left standing for ages.
Hate to say this, but if your mum-in-law is dealing with them personally, they might regard her as a soft target. Such was the case with a neighbour of mine, who was fleeced by the local dealers when buying a new Corsa.
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FWIW, i dont believe the standing too long bit either. As Aprilia says system is totally sealed and anyway, its not as if the car has had no use at all. It has been used now and again.I know of many cars that get this much or even less use.
I think the mercedes engineer just happening to drop by is rubbish being invented to give weight to their diagnosis too IMO.
But then again i am a cynical old geezer.
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BTW, hope you get it sorted out ok.
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I am with rodger on this in the thought that your m.i.l. is seen as a soft touch ,unfortunately this happens all to often with my mother,sorry but other than suggesting to get another opinion/garage to look at it I cant offer any more help
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If it really is injector failure then I would definitely want to investigate the cause. If could be the pump failing. Just replacing the injectors sounds dodgy - if that's the route they take then get the repair warranted in writing.
The price of £1500 sounds very reasonable actually. Remember that this is a 6-cylinder engine, I thought the injectors would be about £300 each - i.e. £1800 just for parts? It could be that they are quoting for recon injectors.
I do know that where a pump has failed the total repair cost is around £4k (pump, filter, injectors, necessary fuel lines and tank cleaning).
I have to be honest and say that if it were my car then I would consider taking it to an experienced Mercedes main dealer, for the diagnosis if not the repair. You can't afford to mis-diagnose this and its too expensive to do 'trial and error' with repairs on CR Diesels. As I have said before on here, everything has to 100% spot-on on a CR Diesel. One minor fault and you are in deep trouble. If the car has an MB service history then they may take a benevolent view of the repair costs, given its low mileage, and discount the parts or labour.
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CR injectors tested by this firm (www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/index.php at random from Google) on test kit apparently intended for the job? Bosch service centres should also have access to the testing kit.
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CR injectors tested by this firm (www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/index.php at random from Google) on test kit apparently intended for the job? Bosch service centres should also have access to the testing kit.
Good find. They are doing recon injectors for the MB613 engine for only £130 ea. - a very good price I would say!
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A good price indeed, as Euro Car Parts are in the £200+ region.
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I have spoken to the mechanic who I now learn is a Bosch service agent and actually trains other Bosch operatives, as well as running his own garage.
He says that he looks after loads of Merc Sprinter vans with the same technology and my cousin up here who is also a Bosch trainer, says that he is OK. So, I feel a little happier now, especially that I have independent corroboration of his overall quality and that i told him that I don't want the injectors failing again in six weeks time.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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Is this the engineer who diagnosed en passant? I may have the wrong impression, but has the mechanic/engineer carried out any checks? How about checking the little things first, like clogged fuel filters/air filters, in an orderly fashion?
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He told me, he was going to work through it all methodically, so I assume so.
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Espada III - well if you have a family and need a Lamborghini, what else do you drive?
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I know even less about diesels than about petrol engines, but I am wondering why "clogged" injectors can't simply be cleaned rather than replaced, and it will also be interesting to know how and why they became clogged. Keep us posted, Espada.
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Ah, I see that Andy Bairsto has made the same point on your other thread in Discussion.
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The Mercedes-Benz commercial network do new CR injectors for less than that, around £100 each depending on type and position. The figure Aprilia mentioned of £300 was correct not so long ago. One wonders if the new price is as a consequence of the amount the huge order MB made to replace all the dodgy injectors they fitted before realising they had a quality control problem.
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