Rhino,
I see where you are coming from.
I would add that I did not brake but just eased off the accelerator and I didn't take both hands of the wheel to take the photo. I think I actually took a photo of the ceiling.
As for the consequences of traffic behind. For cars, there would be not be too many problems as they could go in the outside lane.
What would be the consequences if he was tailgating me and I had to slam on my brakes when someone pulled out in front of me? To be honest I care more about being squashed from behind than causing the slightest slow down (for about 20 seconds) on an averagely busy m'way.
As my GPS machine stated I was doing 52/54 mph (I know I shuldn't be speeding thru roadworks) is the extra 4/2 mph that the trucker could get before his limiter cut in worth it? (Or are they limited to 60 mph?)
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Rather than dissecting what happened - we weren't there - what about looking at your options in future.
1. Do the same as you did.
2. Move over to the left lane and let the problem go away
3. Accelerate to get away
4. Be more aggressive and end up in a scrap with the driver if traffic comes to a halt.
It would seem that (1) left you unhappy in some way from your description - you didn't stop the lorry tailgating you
(3) seems to run the risk of getting you snapped by a Gatso.
(4) Bold, but he might be bigger than you. And if not, his dad might be bigger than your dad.
Which leaves (from this short list) option 2. This is the only guaranteed way to stop him tailgating you while not ending up with a fine or a punch in the eye for you or a punch in the eye.
Might be worth a try. I've started using it and it reduced my stress levels hugely while not really slowing me down at all.
The problem, of coure, comes when you're in this situation with no left lane. In this case, I slow down only if it's absolutely necessary to create a safe stopping distance ahead. As it's an action that can be misconstrued, I try to slow as little as possible.
HTH.
V
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You are all gonna think I am a silly pink fluffy mouse but lorry drivers deserve everything they get. I am sorry but the majority (Not minority drive dangerously and do not really care about the danger they impose on other road users. I travel about 30,000 miles a year and currnetly do 250 motorway miles a week (Minimum). I consider myself a quite experienced driver but know that sometimes I should have done things differently - But this is not usually in siituations to put myself or other road users at risk - Just that it could have been better/smoother. Every week I would estimate that at least 2 lorries force there way out - And after reading the thread at the top of the discussion page - I am not talking safely - They are dangerous.
Realistically they just think that you have got to slow down and bully there way out. A few years ago I also had a naughty person in a lorry on a slight incline roll back into my car - He admitted it at first and then later said I had gone in to him. It took nearly a year to get my insurance money - They finally gave in when they received a court date.
I agree sometimes motorists are not so curtious to lorry drivers but who can blame them. I have often being traveling in excess of the speed limit (Yes probably like most of you) and they pull out and put you in immense danger with the pressure you have to apply to the brakes. The most annoying time they do this is when obviously there is no traffic behind you - Why dont you just wait.
I agree also that the majority of car/van drivers on the motorways are also bad drivers and they are - This is probably what makes the lorry drivers act so agressiveley but the difference is the lorry drivers have a lot more responsibility because of the vehicle they are driving - This is why your tests are so hard to do. I also agree that the inside lane usually moves quickest as all the bad impatient drivers sit in the outside lanes. I dont think this is only down to the fact they are so courtious though as I do not think they are. It is more down to the fact that in a certain length of road you could have say 1,000 cars and in the same length probably about 250 lorries. This means less stopping and starting and so it is obviously going to run smoother and quicker.
{Swearing edited. Next time I delete - it\'s far easier. DD}
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CM - how did you know that you were indeed doing 50mph?
I went through the 50 mph M42 temporary limit recently and most of the traffic was doing 45mph according to my Road Angel GPS speedo.
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I wasna fu but just had plenty.
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CM - how did you know that you were indeed doing 50mph? I went through the 50 mph M42 temporary limit recently and most of the traffic was doing 45mph according to my Road Angel GPS speedo.
Origin B2.
Inside lane c. 45
Middle lane c. 52/54 (me)
Outside lane c. 60 > 50 for GATSO
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Stuartjw,
In summary from your post:
Most lorry drivers are bad drivers. As are: most car drivers; most van drivers and most drivers in the outside lane of the motorway.
Wow, thank God you're so good.
V
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Fair point - I suppose I am quite passionate about lorry drivers on the roads and I think that I meant to say that a minority of car/van drivers. It does make me sound a bit like I think I am a better driver than everyone else and I do not think this - Have just read it back. Some of my points are very valid even though I do feel a bit of a fool after reading it.
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FWIW, my view of lorry drivers is that they seem either to be exemplary (the vast majority) or completely awful, with very little in between.
I have no data to support the following statement, but I'd suspect that the ones who fall into the "awful" class don't stay in the job very long. I think you'd need great depth of character to last at the job, with its long hours, loneliness and constant minor (and not so minor) irritations.
V
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28 y/o trucker.
As has been said before, some lorry drivers are safe and professional and some aren't (or have just passed their test!), same rules apply to car drivers and most everything else in life. There's a smaller margin for error driving a HGV than a car, I try to drive with empathy towards other road users, sometimes we just get it wrong and maybe after 9 hours 55 minutes at the wheel with a 45 minute break in there somewhere it's going to happen. Just be sure you ain't in the way when it does.
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I have been a HGV/PSV driver on and off for over 30 years and i believe there has been a decline in the standards of professional drivers.In my opinion there is no excuse for bullying or tailgating.I have had it done to me and it is very annoying.
One of the reasons i believe is pressure put on drivers to speed in the name of profit, certainly, for example, this is rife in the tipper industry, where drivers are often on bonus to do an extra load.
Having said all that i wish some non HGV drivers would just drive an articulated fully laden lorry for a day or two and then perhaps we could have more understanding of each other.
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Some of the worst car drivers I've come across are HGV drivers.
They can manouvre an artic or eight wheeler to within an inch but struggle to park their car. I've seen them at work, head out of the window - backwards and forwards like an old person - and eventually taking up two parking spaces. One driver told me that he sometimes finds himself driving his Metro like an artic - middle of the road at 45mph - lots of clearance needed for cornering etc.
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I'm with VIn on his view that truckers seem to be either very good or very bad.
The problem is that the bad ones really stand out. You might not notice a small car playing silly antics, but you'll spot the artic every time. And you'll notice the dry cleaning bill for your trousers.
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Having said all that i wish some non HGV drivers would just drive an articulated fully laden lorry for a day or two and then perhaps we could have more understanding of each other.
I agree, dagwood.
I drove a few laps round a test track in each of three HGVs and it certainly helped me to appreciate the problems.
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L'escargot by name, but not by nature.
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Maybe I'm in a minority, but I think most LGV drivers are safe and only a small proportion are road bullies. I've been an LGV (HGV) driver myself, and I think profesional driving standards have improved since the late 70's. From my observations, the worst LGV driving standards are in the construction industry - tippers, concrete mixers, skip lorries etc.
How do I deal with a tailgating heavy? If he's a metre from my bumper at 60 mph on a single-carriageway, I'd gently slow down to 40, which is the unenforced LGV speed limit for such roads. Then if the lorry goes into the back of me at least it'd be at a slower speed and the resulting accident might be less serious!
On a dual-carriageway or motorway I'd ease off and pull over to let it pass.
Cheers, Sofa Spud
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An alternative point of view here :
I drive a coach not a lorry and I have made a few observations :
Through roadworks on the A2 there are 3 lanes, two of which I can use and the limit is 50. Why then when the inside lane is clear do cars insist on doing 45 mph (on my tacho) and slow to 40 when the speed camera appears? Why can't they move to the nearside lane?
Same situation happened to me on the motorway. Car was doing around 57 mph in lane 2 and I was in lane 1 empty and wanted to overtake. I did not and will not undertake. So closed in on car. He continues in lane 2 and lane 1 remains empty. I flash him. Out comes the hand out of the window with two fingers pointed at me. So I give up and move back to lane 1. Now a car behind me in lane 2 approaches the same car and flashes. The car driver that was in lane 2 does actually move over.
There seems to be a lot of hostility from car drivers to drivers of large vehicles. But drivers of large vehicles do actually own and drive cars too.
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9h 55m at the wheel (would do eek smiley here if I could)
In Paris, the taxis have a visible fare display in the back window.
Might be worth fitting a similar system to the back end of lorries linked to the tacho to show time driven - would give us a better chance to spot the knackered drivers! (winking smiley)
Lee.
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Lee
MINI adventure in progress
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Given the "Lorries Overtaking Response". It still doesn't excuse bully boy tactics and dangerous driving.
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>>Without Britain's lorry drivers you would all starve to death in two weeks.
But without our people you would not have gas, electricity or television.
Without the oil companies we wouldn't have anything driving on the roads.
Without trucks drivers we wouldn't have......ummm....well, something I'm sure.
That's really got nothing at all to do with excusing how they drive. Unless you're suggesting that some of them are entitled to drive like fools because they're [hush] lorry drivers ?
Like any other group of people, there's good and bad. Unfortunately the bad have a very large weapon to beat people around with. There seems to be less bad than good, but there's a lot of both.
I don't think we should be villifying truck drivers, but putting them on a pedestal is hardly appropriate either.
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Gettings things into perspective :
There are far more cars on the road than any other type of vehicle. They are therefore more likely to be accidents involving cars, not lorries.
www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_transstats/docu...f
Table 2 :
Cars killed 1769 people in 2003 and accounted for 188342 casualties including those slightly injured etc.
HGVs killed 116 and accounted for 9958 total casualties.
Buses and Coaches killed 11 with 9068 total casualties.
So HGVs only account for 5 percent of all accidents. Are they really such bad terrible drivers?
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daveb, I think that the figure of 116 is the number of goods vehicle drivers that lost their lives. It does not show the number of people killed by HGVs.
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Driving home from work last night doing 55 ish according to the speedo,in the left hand lane where i should be,artic comes right up my arris,about 5 feet away from bumper.So I slowed down to about 35 to give him the message/better opportunity to overtake.This only succeeded in lights flashing in my mirror,so a little stab of the brakes was applied a couple of times to re-inforce the message and this had the desired effect,chummy backed off.I was going home from my work as a class 1 driver and this sort of behaviour is inexcusable.What a moron,if you were the BENTONS driver (west midlands) on the A13 at it's junction with the M25 at about 18:30 last night going to the bridge? you are a male chicken......
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I drove from London to Edinburgh and back in the past week or so, the majority of which was on the M40 and M6. Lots of lorries about and on the whole I found the drivers to be careful and courteous. Having read the "Definitive Answer" thread I regarded the HGV drivers as people doing their job and just trying to get somewhere in a heavy and sometimes difficult to manouvre vehicle.
Yes, sometimes a lorry wants to overtake another, and where I was able to flash them out I did. Without fail this was greeted with an each-direction signal in thanks, and often a wave or thumbs-up from the driver as they pulled in and I passed.
As for the car drivers tailgating me where pulling over was not an option, or trying to pull-out and occupy space that I was already occupying - well, that's another story.
The lorry drivers that I find worst tend not to be professional HGV drivers working for haulage companies. They tend to be (as someone has already pointed out) Jack the skip lorry driver in his truck that used to be yellow but is now a variety of shades of rust.
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I rarely have a problem with trucks - but then I'm rarely in the same lane as them and not often in the one next to them.
However, if I am going to have a problem its normally them either changing lanes on a motorway unreasonably or getting ureasonably close to the vehicle in front.
And the worst, the absolute, diabolical, appallingly awful, worst, are not the HGVs - its Luton vans and their equivalent. Now they really do drive me nuts.
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HJ - I am sure you are an excellent driver. Me, I think that I am about average but in all the years (not as many as many in the BR) I have only ever had 2 problems.
The one that started the thread which I did not really consider too much of a problem and the other when I was about 18 and inexperienced. Squeezed ahead of an HGV when a dual carriageway went down to one lane, which I admit must have been very annoying, but was then tailgated for the next 10 miles, where I never once had to touch my brakes. Serves me right I suppose and it did go to show that I was no further ahead of the HGV after 10 miles.
Apart from that it is always a little concerning when truckers are tired and weave around a bit too much for comfort.
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Regarding the point 'where were the police' - we all know cameras have taken over their job on the roads these days.
However - when was the last time (if ever) you saw a truck pulled over by the police? I drive through city centre and motorway every day and nearly every time I see someone using a mobile phone while driving, its a truck. Occasionally its car driver but they are definitely in the minority in this case.
Perhaps truck drivers have an agreement with the police, I wouldnt mind getting in on that myself.
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Don't know how to quote other posts but Snakey you're paranoid!
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In England, we like to moan about poor driving standards. I agree that there can be a lot of dangerous driving on our roads; however, compared to other countries we are far better.
For example, I went to Poland. About 90% of drivers are hazards. Many lorries tailgate and overtake even though they are head on with approaching traffic. Drivers drive at high speed without taking into account any of the hazards present, and will overtake head on with oncoming traffic even though they are inches to touching the oncoming car (at 70mph plus).
And worst of all, I also saw many police drivers who also drive recklessly and set a very dangerous example to others. They also can tailgate, overtake with little caution and really are very, very dangerous.
If any driver from the UK would take an outing from one side of Poland to another by car, they would never be intimidated by tailgating and poor driving because they would have already experienced it time after time. Even better, take a motorcycle from one side of Poland to another and they would find UK riding a walk in the park.
What is also interesting in Poland is that the first part of the test is completed on a course with only cones where manoeuvres are completed. They do not need to use any observations there which makes it partly useless as these are the most important parts of manoeuvres (next to the manoeuvre itself). And the test itself on the road uses no hazard perception which the UK has to some extent. An advanced driving course like in the UK would reduce the accident rate dramatically, but as it stands with Police officers driving recklessly I think people will continue to die on the Polish roads like no tomorrow.
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If I ever find out how to do, I will film some of the action on Philippine roads and post a link to it. Trucks -- awful, but far, far worse, are the decrepit buses. Tailgating is the least of their behaviours. Forcing other vehicles aside would be more their style. Drivers are often on shabu or something similar to keep them awake.
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I'll put my hard hat on...
In my experience a greater proportion of truck drivers than car drivers are conducting their vehicles properly and being courteous to other road users.
It's just that being bigger, the naughty ones are more obvious, and the probable consequences worse.
I do admit to driving a (proper) Land Rover and I am quite aware that I am often treated by truckers as an honorary truck, especially when I have a trailer on the back.
However the foregoing is a general observation.
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I think in general, driving standards in this country are quite high - I am sure we have one of the safest roads in Europe. Given there are so many vehicles on our small island we should congratulate ourselves.
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I suppose it doesn't really matter whether truck drivers are good or bad, or indeed car drivers are good or bad. Basically if a truck driver is in a hurry, he's bigger than you and its best to get out of the way!
Me paranoid? Surely not! (my last post had a certain amount of tongue in cheek)
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I may surprise you now but it's always the truck driver who flashes me to let me out or to let me join the motorway without having to brake. They always without fail wave when you let them out of a junction or similar.
Also, Snakey, I see trucks pulled over every week - admittedly not for driving but at Police checkpoints, presumably checking the roadworthiness. Imagine how frustrating it would be having the vehicle inspectorate crawling all over your vehicle every week.
Thanks,
Adam
If I get hit by a truck in a molten fireball, mods, please delete this post.
Adam
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>>If I get hit by a truck in a molten fireball, mods, please delete this post.
Finger poised. Please post each time you arrive somewhere so that we know you didn't fail to.
Please also obtain a pda for mobile use so that, in the last split second you have, you can e-mail us the exact description of your nemisis to assure us that it wasn't a non-molten truck - we wouldn't want to delete your note under false pretences.
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Well we all know where the BR get's it's humour from.....ND!
I realised after I posted that my post implied a truck inside a molten fireball but I left if and thought no-one would pick up on it; Mark, (surprise surprise) has - just for that - I will let you know my movements from now on to put your mind at ease;-)
Cheers
Adam
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Well we all know where the BR get's it's humour from.....ND! I realised after I posted that my post implied a truck inside a molten fireball but I left if and thought no-one would pick up on it; Mark, (surprise surprise) has - just for that - I will let you know my movements from now on to put your mind at ease;-) Cheers Adam
Can't blame me; I was consuming a lot of apple by products over the weekend, wondering where the rest of you lot had got to....briefly.
;o)
No Dosh - Backroom Moderator
mailto:moderators@honestjohn.co.uk
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Adski, it can be just as frustrating for the VI inspectors. A mate of mine was pulled in (by the police) for a roadside vehicle check. Everything was OK so off he went. Half an hour later he's coming back along the same road and finds out that the 'checkers' have moved across the road as well ! Pulled again by the same police, and checked by the same examiners. The examiners had a moan about it all but were duty bound to check the truck again.
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Really? I never knew that. I always assumed they picked 1 in every 4 or something. Imagine if the second time around they found a problem though!
Cheers
Adam
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>>I suppose it doesn't really matter whether truck drivers are good or bad, or indeed car drivers are good or bad. Basically if a truck driver is in a hurry, he's bigger than you and its best to get out of the way!
Good or bad isnt the point. What is point.A lot of people when in the way of Artic wont move.I wonder why.are they stupid daft or incompetent.Dont they realise the damage Artics can do.Or do they slow down on purpose. stay at original speed. When you take into account weight of Artic doing 60mph plus. Sudden braking will make that weight thousands of tons not sixty. I cannot see why anyone comments on Artics tailgating. what most forget or dont know Artics cannot accelerate like cars.So best advice is to Keep away from Artics. Also applies to 7.5 tonne motors
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Was mech1
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>>I do admit to driving a (proper) Land Rover and I am quite aware that I am often treated by truckers as an honorary truck, especially when I have a trailer on the back.
I found the same when I drove my Land Rover, which is now laid up in retirement.
Does the name 'Sliding Pillar' indicate a connection with Morgans?
Cheers, SS
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HJ, Let me guess...
As you approach trucks in the n/s lane, and see that one is getting close to the truck in front, you anticipate the iminent overtake, and the truck's indicator signal is no surprise at all to you.
How do you avoid the tailgating?
number_cruncher
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