I've driven all configurations in over 30 years of driving and I'm sure 4wd (cars, not 4x4 off-road type vehicles) is the safest for drivers of any ability and experience, assuming some common sense. Go to www.subaru.co.uk and read the stuff there on 4wd rather than me go through it again here.
Between fwd and rwd, fwd is probably the safer configuration for the average driver due to the inherent understeer which is easier to control than oversteer for the uninitiated. I like to drive my cars quite hard and I like powerful cars so I prefer rwd to fwd but I go very gently in the wet!
But beg, borrow or steal a Subaru, give it a long drive in all weather conditions then come back and tell me fwd or rwd is better. I doubt you would.
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fwd is good at making sure you don't do anything too stupid as it usually warns you of impending disaster with some nice predictable understeer. rwd is good for a laugh when you have plenty of space and in a car that is also fairly predictable and not liable to end swap too readily. But I don't think you can beat the all round safe feeling of 4 wheel drive. Depending on how the torque is split front to back will depend on whether the front or rear will break away first when you really push it hard. Ideally it should be set with torque sensing diffs so that it breaks away gently with a nice 4 wheel slide and you stay pointing the right way but maybe taking a wider sweep.
Not sure about subarus though. Some of their owners were complaining how dangerous they were in the snow... guess they just didn't like being able to hang the back out ;-)
teabelly
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My current toy is an Imprezza Turbo. Until boxing day I thought it would be impossible to really unstick this car on a public road but then I proved myself wrong, fortunately without mishap. The limits of adhesion are truly phenominal to the point where it becomes almost boring to drive. Thats why I'll go back to a rwd Caterham 7 once the weather warms up a bit. Its just more fun, and so predictable that you can push the back end out wide easily and safely on any bend with reasonable visibility through it.
For general driving I really don't care. My old diesel Cavalier has sufficient fwd grip to be perfectly acceptable on the 50 mile round trip to and from work and for other general use.
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I read often, only post occasionally
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That 99% of people are better off with fwd sounds true, but on reflection I feel that's underestimating folks a bit.
RWD forces you to think about the surface and grip levels, cambers and so on. Thinking about your driving can only be a good thing and really helps you become a better driver, especially when the unexpected happens. Many people in fwd's will just slap on the brake when bad things unfold.
I think it's perfectly reasonable to test the limits of adhesion when it's safe to do it, so that when grip is lost in unsafe circumstances you know how to deal with it.
As for 4wd, Imprezzas are great of course, but their whole ethos is roadholding. If the car was rwd (where 70% of the power goes anyhow) it would still be pretty grippy. See BMW M3.
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My wife's car is a 4WD Toyota Carib auto (based on the Corolla, but in station wagon form). Really does grip the road, but has quite a lot of road noise, plus 4 CV joints to maintain/worry about.
My car is RWD and can feel a bit loose in the wet, but its damn good for wheelspin on take off - just like old Magnum PI did in the intro to Magnum PI :)
Its the first RWD car I've owned and I love the way it handles, but I would only drive one in a country where the roads are mostly dry (like here in NZ). I'd say for UK FWD is the best choice. 4WD gives you more noise and more tyre costs.
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Only ever driven fwd and 4wd but, so far (touch wood), have found the 4wd of the S3 very safe and predictable. It has a stability program on each wheel, a decent split front to back via the Haldex transmission and also has yaw control.
I am no way a good driver but the S3 is so easy to drive fast - if only for less turbo lag.
Rwd should be left for go-karts/track-days only! Just ask my brother!
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For most people (including those that think they are exceptional drivers!) FWD is relatively safe and forgiving.
Having personal experience of the Imprezza Turbo I can say that yes - the levels of grip and traction are very high, but I can assure you that when they do let go there is not much you can do about it. You'll be going very fast and everything will be in the lap of the gods.
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You are all probably right in your verdict on FWD in normal road use. But RWD wins hands down on a sticky uphill surface.
Our house is up an unmade track with a fair incline at one point.
My collection of old RWDs have never had a problem, even pulling a trailer or caravan, but all visitors with FWDs find it hard to get up if the track is at all slippery.
Also I've noticed at car boots that FWDs sometimes have trouble on wet grass.
It might just be down to driving style and experience though.
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For most people (including those that think they are exceptional drivers!) FWD is relatively safe and forgiving. Having personal experience of the Imprezza Turbo I can say that yes - the levels of grip and traction are very high, but I can assure you that when they do let go there is not much you can do about it. You'll be going very fast and everything will be in the lap of the gods.
My point is that driven in the same way at the same speeds, 4WD is safer as the levels of grip are higher. Yes, when they do let go, you will be going very fast and there's not much you can do but that is down to the driver. You'd have been in the ditch long before in a fwd or rwd car. So in an emergency give me 4wd every time.
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Surely its a question of horses for courses?
The vast majority of the cars actually on the road have 0-60 times over 10 seconds so FWD is fine - it is more forgiving and 99% of the time is safer.
For more powerful cars, the limitations of FWD become more apparent, as do the benefits of RWD.
RWD has its problems, shall we say, so for drivers of more powerful cars who have less confidence or (dare I say it) less skill then the additional cost and complexity of 4WD is justified.
Speaking personally, the BMWs that I have driven over the last few years have been among the most secure that I have known, in terms of roadholding, BUT you have to remember what you are driving and not get silly on tight bends in the wet. In 150k of RWD miles I have only exchanged front & rear once, thankfully no-one & nothing nearby. Then, for my 911, a moment spent in frank and honest self-assessment of my driving skills told me to get the 4WD.
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It is raining cats and dogs outside so I hope I don't regret this post...
The X Type 4wd has given me problems only one time - when I was trying to get it to skid on a circular skid pan - even the Traffic Policeman had to work hard at it.
Matt35.
Think I will use the Matiz today!
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"BUT you have to remember what you are driving and not get silly on tight bends in the wet"
Precisely. RWD cars are fine IF you drive them properly.
Caution: not everything in this post should be taken entirely seriously
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It is still possible to get snap oversteer in a FWD car if you lift off as it starts understeering - trust me, i've done it and it isn't nice. Very difficult to control, as many Peugeot 205 drivers can testify (though mine was in a Rover Metro!). Not sure if more modern FWD cars can come unstuck in this way though.
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Somebody has already made the point, but 4wd doesn't make the car safer except for traction issues - on ice and in the wet. Same rules of physics apply re grip in cornering as with 2wd. Unless its a SUV where its stability and therefore grip, is somwhat lower than anything other than a Reliant 3-wheeler:)
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Somebody has already made the point, but 4wd doesn't make the car safer except for traction issues - on ice and in the wet. Same rules of physics apply re grip in cornering as with 2wd. Unless its a SUV where its stability and therefore grip, is somwhat lower than anything other than a Reliant 3-wheeler:)
Same rules of physics apply, sure, but assuming you have power on, the power is distributed across twice the rubber area in a 4wd. Engine braking too is across 4 not 2 wheels.
So they're only safer in the wet and ice? Just when you need it most. Damn good reason for having one then!
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Agreed, there are many good reasons for 4wd, so long as it is realised that getting to the bend/hazard faster, can make it harder to stay on the correct side of the road, if driving too bravely! The more energy put in, the bigger and quicker the potential moment if grip fades. On a skid pan, using fwd, I was surprised how quickly I needed to react, and how much effort it was, dealing with a succession of corners at the limit. I did find the session useful later though when the rear end of my Golf came adrift in the wet, due to my error in pushing too hard on a bumpy stretch. I'll bet it would be fun to try out other layouts on a skid pan/circuit.
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As a happy owner of a Pug 306, I can confirm that lift off oversteer is a very strong characteristic of this car. Definitely need to keep the revs up when it starts understeering. But the chassis signals the car's intent very well so it's easy to catch it........well, after a bit of practice!!
I also owned two Pug 205's which were lethal but fun!
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You needn't think I shall fail to rise to a 4x4 conversation, even from a beach bar in South America !
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Guy,
The S3 doesn't have yaw control as such, just the brake assisted stability program. Not sure what you mean about the "decent split front to back" either it's effectively a front wheel drive car until it senses a loss of traction then engages the rear wheels.
Unlike the Evo 6 Tommi Makinen I've been driving this week which has active yaw. Once it detects understeer (or oversteer) it does the opposite of a stability program which would brake the inside rear wheel, say, in an understeer situation and applies power to the outside wheel, then the diffs sort out the rest.
This car is utter madness and I was quite glad to hand it back yesterday without losing my licence. Glad to have experienced one though, and I now know I could never have one, the temptation is just too great to be naughty. p.s. Scoobys are well known for undrsteering on the limit, it's just that the limit is very high.
I'm not slagging off the S3 btw, I get my A3 3.2 on Saturday, will feel quite dull after the Evo, but in a way I'm glad.
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Rwd should be left for go-karts/track-days only! Just ask my brother!
Guy,
I'm quietly surprised that after the stick you took following anall day bender and the disconnected generator game you're waiting for us to ask big bro.
Are we asking gentlemen?
You bet we are! ;)
FiF
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