I agree with Scotty's sentiments but not his ski lift analogy. A ski lift has a fixed capacity but a single carriageway does not.
There are countless sites on the internet about this - do a search for 'traffic flow theory merging'.
However for all the theory it will never work unless every motorist complies and there will always be some selfish motorist will always want to gain a few places and push in the queue further down towards the point where it becomes a single carriageway.
The tactics of the HGVs described by Mad Maxy earlier in this thread can actually be helpful in increasing traffic flow if done correctly.
That's the first good thing I have ever said about an HGV!
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Thing is, on today's congested roads, 3 lanes into 2 or 2 into 1 is going to cause a jam - caused by people braking too late, elbowing their way in and forcing other vehicles to slow sharply. But once that's happened it's just a question of where the merge takes place.
Seems sensible to make it at the actual pinch point - why waste road space?
And is life all about queuing and taking your turn? If that were the case all overtaking would be outlawed...
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What would help enormously would be more common use of signs telling motorists to queue in both lanes and merge in turn. This would remove the queue jumping and help dissuade those who merge too early.
Before the traffic has formed a queue it does, of course, make sense if everyone gets into lane in plenty of time allowing traffic to flow through. Unfortunately common-sense is non too common these days.
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One question is: Where is it appropriate to merge? I'd suggest not leaving it until the very last minute as it doesn't leave you any safety margin or anywhere to go if someone decides they don't feel like letting you in. Especially merging at speed, I'd say probably 200 yards before the cones or whatever would be a more sensible place as there is then time to bail out. Trouble is that someone will always leave it until the very last minute which as others point out causes a sort of concertina effect.
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I tink it would help if there was a Merge Now (or a short series of them) a short way back from the actual bottleneck - that way everyone would know and understand what is expected of them. And those who ignored it would quite rightly then be guilty of queue jumping
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I think it would help if there was a Merge Now (or a short series of them) a short way back from the actual bottleneck - that way everyone would know and understand what is expected of them.
There usually is, in the form of "right hand lane closed" in 400,300,200 metres, etc. (the cricket stump sign) but the selfish driver will always ignore these road signs and cut in at the last moment.
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There usually is, in the form of "right hand lane closed" in 400,300,200 metres, etc. (the cricket stump sign) but the selfish driver will always ignore these road signs and cut in at the last moment.
Talk about missing the point. The countdown signs allow people to prepare their merge with the traffic. When people start merging in slow moving traffic at 400, 300, 200, that's when you see people getting peed off as they have "let loads of cars in" by the time they reach 50yds to go.
Training needed for all, not just those in the RH lane.
Granted, when the traffic is moving at an appropriate speed, the late merger artist is being a twit, but how about the person in the LH lane seeing this person in their wing mirror and accelerating to close the gap? Any better/worse?
No, just guilty of the same selfishness.
For goodness sake, everybody, just try letting people in from time to time and more importantly, if you are one of those always cutting in at the last moment, have a thought about your actions and above all, a little wave of thanks at the appropriate moment wouldn't hurt, would it?
Remember that just because you are surrounded by glass and metal doesn't stop you being a human being too.
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Remember that just because you are surrounded by glass and metal doesn't stop you being a human being too.
You are quite right.
There is far more congestion and queueing in supermarkets, but you don't tend to find the selfish attitude so common on the roads today.
The protection of the vehicle (and lack of eye contact) seems to affect some people's personality.
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Without wishing to move off topic (but I will anyway), in CostCo Reading yesterday it crossed my mind that driving mentality is starting to creep into other places. People driving their trollies without due care was the biggest problem. Also inconsiderate parking, and not looking both ways before crossing a stream of traffic.
When will these stores realise that if thy are going to clog up the aisles with so many special offers, tasting sessions and giant flatbed trollies, that they need one way traffic and lay bys?
And what's the point of the little man scanning over your bill and checking against your fully laden trolley as you leave the store?
The car park was also a mess - people reversing out of bays without looking, queueing for bays therefore blocking others, families running amok. Bah humbug... :-)
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but the selfish driver will always ignore these road signs and cut in at the last moment.
True, but equally pathetic is the truck driver who decides that no traffic should use the outside lane from 1 mile before the merge signs and sits on the white lines. What is that about ?
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Whilst this situation is enraging there is a worserer one.
Heading w along the M4 (Reading junction?) most people start to queue for the slip off. Ends up being a mile of stationery traffic in the first lane, waiting to exit the motorway. Except the BMW's who think they can zipp in right at the end of the queue. When Mr Angry, who has queued for 10 minutes, resents this arrogant driving and refuses to let them in , Mr Beemer then STOPS in the middle lane until someone does!
Argh you drive in the middle lane doing 50 or so to find a static car !!!
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Funny you should mention that. I was on a M-way recently when someone did exactly that - suddenly pulled up in the middle lane with left indicator on awaiting a space in the queue to exit! I had to brake sharp as did all the drivers behind me. Wasn't a BMW though, was a Jag X-type IIRC.
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Yes a single carriageway is not quite like a ski lift, in that it does not have a fixed rate of flow. But once the speed of the flow down the road has been fixed by the cars ahead, surely they are then analogous? However efficiently the cars are zippered further back, they cannot get down the SC faster than the rate set by the cars ahead.
But I can see that that reasoning is leading to the conclusion that there is no point in having dual carriageways at all, because they just feed cars faster to the same bottleneck. Is there a flaw here somewhere?
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I think Cliff is correct - the bottleneck allows only so many cars through per unit of time - the left hand lane are waiting in queue to use this bottleneck, so if I "maximise the available road" and sail down the empty right hand lane to the end (and I will be allowed in fairly quickly), I've effectively popped to the front of this queue - if one car per second can use the bottleneck, I've delayed however many cars were already queueing in the left hand lane by one second, as will every other car using the right hand lane. It seems wrong to us to pull into a queue and leave acres of empty lane prior to the bottleneck, but I can't see how it can be described as anything other than gaining a time advantage at the expense of the left hand lane.
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Some people are just so selfish you will never get them to merge sensibly.
On A23 I was travelling behind a Polo (lady driver) and Audi TT literally side by side where the road is reduced by bollards to one lane and neither would give way, resulting in a clash of mirrors, wheels bumping over and into kerbs and a delay to everybody while both drivers blocked the whole road and argued the toss over the blame for the minor paint scrape..
Why could'nt one of them wait 5 seconds? Its just sheer b***** mindedness.
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On A23 I was travelling behind a Polo (lady driver) and Audi TT literally side by side where the road is reduced by bollards to one lane and neither would give way, resulting in a clash of mirrors, wheels bumping over and into kerbs and a delay to everybody while both drivers blocked the whole road and argued the toss over the blame for the minor paint scrape..
Before anyone asks... no. I don't even know where the A23 is, and godforbid I should look old enough to be called a lady driver!
I'm usually the one applauding the lorry drivers for blocking both lanes and stopping the BMWs (for it is always BMWs) from driving all the way up the empty lane. Regardless of how it *should* be done, the reality is that one lane will become a queue and it's not fair that some people think they are so important that they don't need to sit in the queue.
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>>I'm usually the one applauding the lorry drivers for blocking both lanes and stopping the BMWs (for it is always BMWs) from driving all the way up the empty lane.
Presumably you are ok with the general idea of people over-taking each other on a dual carriageway ?
When they have roadworks, they block one lane some way back from the actual works. They want it reduced to one lane at that point. Why do truck drivers decide it should be some undefined point before that - worst I've seen was 2 miles.?
Why don't both lanes queue evenly and then alternate through the road works ?
And no, its not always BMWs, its frequently Landcruisers as well.
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PG - it's OK to argue about orderly queuing in the left-hand lane if it is of unlimited length. When the one-lane queue gets half a mile long and starts to block the previous junction/roundabout this argument loses credibility - it is then more sensible to use both lanes and hope that drivers behave in a helpful manner.
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Cliff,
"the speed of the flow down the road has been fixed by the cars ahead"
I would qualify that statement by saying that the speed of the flow is determined by the speed of cars on entering the bottleneck.
For the reasons given earlier in this thread the traffic grinds to a halt well before the bottleneck and we normally crawl in first gear into the single lane. Once in the single carriageway the traffic then usually speeds up to 40mph or so.
What effective zippering will do is get more cars through the bottleneck by getting the cars to enter it at a faster pace.
C
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Helicopter: I bet a pound to a pinch of poo it was the Audi trying to filter in to the VW's lane.
Audi = BMW
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Helicopter: I bet a pound to a pinch of poo it was the Audi trying to filter in to the VW's lane. Audi = BMW
Sorry, who's lane? Didn't appreciate that lanes were owned by cars.
May I throw some petrol on this particular blaze by daring to suggest that many complaining of those pushing-in have never ever ever overtaken anything? No? All been guilty of overtaking on a dual carriageway?
tsk tsk.
That's pushing in, you know.
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I'm on the fence on this one, can see merits of both arguments. I tend to queue patiently...mostly...and I also usually drive sufficiently fast on motorways that not a lot overtakes me...where conditions permit, of course.
But to draw a similarity with overtaking is stretching it. In that case, people are choosing to go slow or fast. What's being talked about here is shoving into a queue (or at least, expecting someone to kindly let you in) which is a bit different.
And of course lanes are owned by cars. Volvos own the middle lane don't they? And Beemers just whichever lane suits them best at any particular point in time? :-)
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I guess it all depends on what your definition of "pushing in" is.
Mine would include a need for there to be a queue in to which to push. Moving vehicles on a free moving road are not, to my mind, a queue, so overtaking them is not pushing in.
I side (mostly) with the VW - but she was a bit daft to let it get that far. The Audi driver on the other has probably already ordered his BM.
I do let reasonably behaved drivers in to the queue - but that does not include those that have just driven past hundreds of yards of queueing cars. What's happening is obvious once a queue has formed and those speeding down the outside lane know exactly what they're doing. Trying to argue that all the queueing drivers should be doing something else is pointless (but I'm prepared to accept that the argument is not without some validity) - sometimes you just have to go with the majority (nearly said the flow, which would have been a very bad pun) and you should just wait your turn.
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All been guilty of overtaking on a dual carriageway?
...That's pushing in, you know.
Um, no. You're just being stupid now. Most of the time when zippering you are slowed due to the sheer volume of traffic trying to pass through a narrowed road. Overtaking someone on a dual carriageway who chooses not to travel at the maximum allowable / possible is not pushing it. The difference being the availability of choice.
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Ok, now read the remainder of my posts on the page......
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You know, I wish you'd include a .sig with your address after each post so I could actually say what I wanted to at this point as I know if I did here it would be 'moderated'
FWIW, I have read them and wouldn't change a word of my post...
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I\'m deliberately being provocative (as ever) to keep the ebb and flow of the discussion going. Sometimes I look at a thread and think \"hmmm, old (insert backroom regular here) is holding back. I wonder if I push it.....\"
Classic case in point here.
That\'s not to say that I don\'t agree with what I post, far from it. It\'s simply that I will sometime over-egg the pudding to get a rise (mixing my culinary metaphors there). It\'s funny how often a contributor will react to a post, then re-read their reactive response and add a comment further down the page to state that ok, maybe they now see the other viewpoint. I just like people to see both sides of an argument. You may have seen my posts encouraging the acceptance of different ways of doing things and asking that people consider that there isn\'t always just one right answer. Ultimately, that\'s what makes life a whole lot more pleasant for the people with whom we share this planet.
Anyway, here\'s the sig.
mailto:Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
You can also click on my name at the top of the post. This should give you my email.
Look forward to hearing from you :o)
Postscript: I only tend to add my sig if I\'m in moderator mode. If you don\'t see the sig it\'s because I\'m just contributing as myself.
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Sorry for coming to this thread late, maybe I've been holding back and refusing to merge with the thread......pardon the pun.
100% for the zippering method and taking the line of least resistance, with tendencies to merging earlier if an obvious opportunity exists.
If that involves merging early and letting 60 cars in front of me, well so what. After the delay when we are all spaced out at our two second gaps (?!?) then I'm only two minutes behind where I would have been if every space had been fought for.
Chill!
Now SWMBO! "Don't let him in......do NOT let him in........" is the usual co-driver input, and always ignored which usually increases the DEFCON state a level or two.
Nevertheless it does take some self restraint when zippering from a slow moving queue has been taking place quite happily for some time, and it's your turn next having let the one from the other lane go. The driver of the German car in the next lane (and yes it is always a German car) who should filter in after you decides to go in front of you as well as the other guy. Now that IS pushing in.
Interested to hear the comment, albeit off topic, of supermarket trolley driving standards. Absolutely true and in a zippering situation there I have been known to (ahem) place my foot in front of a trolley wheel to (ahem) assert my rightful place in the queue. Not sure I'd do that with a 44 tonne 18 wheel semi-trailer rig!
Cheers all, happy zippering
FiF
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Now SWMBO! "Don't let him in......do NOT let him in........" is the usual co-driver input, and always ignored which usually increases the DEFCON state a level or two.
Very valid point! Must admit I hate when passengers do the 'you could have gone there' 'don't let them do that' 'come on, we need to get there faster' thing. I like to drive the way I am comfortable with and that sort of thing can lead to accidents itself if you get worked up about it.
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So true. Mrs H is totally oblivious to anything going on outside the car unless we are queuing in which case she knows which cars I have let in front of me and which cars are making better progress than we are. Would that she keep this data to herself, but I am treated to a running commentary on the relative speeds and lane position of up to 20 cars. Sigh.
Hawkeye
-----------------------------
Stranger in a strange land
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Postscript: I only tend to add my sig if I\'m in moderator mode. If you don\'t see the sig it\'s because I\'m just contributing as myself.
Yes, but that is the point. You can't stop being a moderator and should be setting an example as to what is acceptable. Seems at the moment that mods can post what they like while stamping hard on anything from other forum members that is even a few thou out of line.
I see your point about giving an alternative view - this subject is a good point I agree, but comparing overtaking to pushing in is just a little bit daft and doesn't help the discussion.
(I see little point in airing my views TBH even via email now)
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Woah there. Did you get out of the wrong side of bed this morning?
Exactly what has no dosh done wrong? Included humour in his posts? Mods shouldn\'t be able to do that, coz this is a motoring site and no humour is allowed, right?
I really don\'t see why you have a problem here, no-one else does. No dosh used an extreme to point out a simple question, where does it change from overtaking to pushing in, and who makes that arbitrary decision?
So that:
was motoring related
was not offensive
was not off-topic
So what did he do that would have been moderated if he weren\'t a mod?
BTW, this post is ripe for moderation, as it isn\'t at least two of the above. Sorry.
I\'ll let you off, otherwise you\'ll only go and say nasty things about me over at alfaowner.com :o)
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Steve, I'm sorry you feel that we are operating dual standards. You may note that there are numerous non-motoring posts scattered throughout the forum at present, indicating that we are prepared to let things pass if the mood of the thread on the whole is appropriate.
There have been some deletions lately, but only when they become political diatribes, rants or vendetta. I've used my edit and delete button a whole lot less in the past 3 or 4 weeks and have been appreciative of the good humoured banter in the backroom of late.
It is not the policy of the backroom to discuss moderating in open forum. If there are specific instances where you feel that moderation has gone overboard please feel free to email either myself mailto:Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk or the moderators as a whole mailto:moderators@honestjohn.co.uk
As to not being allowed to be myself, I would remind you that Dave, Mark and I do this for free in what little spare time we have. It makes heavy demands on our home, social and work time and there are instances where we all have a desire to post without being seen to be waving a stick in anyone's faces.
If I post my moderator sig at the end of every contribution I make, it will give the impression that my views are those of HJ and the other mods. It may also be perceived as bullying if I post a counter argument and then stick the sig at the end. Not my intention, as mentioned above. I do like to see a rounded discussion as an individual, regardless of my position as one of the moderators. Where that runs counter to appropriate behaviour for a moderator I bite my tongue, in a keyboard sort of way.
Hope this explains my position here but would still be happy to handle any direct concerns via email.
Regards as ever,
No Dosh
mailto:Alan_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
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For the reasons given earlier in this thread the traffic grinds to a halt well before the bottleneck and we normally crawl in first gear into the single lane. Once in the single carriageway the traffic then usually speeds up to 40mph or so.
You have said it yourself - the traffic speeds up until you catch up with the tail of the cars ahead, travelling at 40 mph. So the limit on how many cars per minute can pass through the bottleneck is, on average, set by the speed, 40 mph, of the cars further ahead down the road.
So all this zippering is just a lot of jostling around like the people fighting to get on the ski lift?
You cannot overtake the cars ahead on the single carriageway- all you can do is sneak a march on some of your fellows in the slow lane.
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The Audi / VW incident was in Coulsdon High St(in South London)and in this particular case the priority is more the outside lane due to traffic calming???? measures forcing the inside lane out to merge with the outer.
I am not taking sides here - IMO both were acting stupidly and aggressively. I just could not believe what I was seeing, both drivers prepared to use their cars literally as weapons against each other just to save a couple of seconds.
Polo Girl - I'm sure you are very beautiful young lady who would not get involved in this sort of unsavoury incident (However - I have to say I did wonder at the time!!!!)
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All this traffic flow theory is quite mind boggling and counter intuitive to many.
Personally I have late merging tendencies, never quite having the nerve to take it up to the cones. What I do try to do after I have merged is to then adjust my speed gradually so that a gap appears in front of me large enough for anyone in the right hand lane to slide in while maintaining a similar speed to the queue. (If you see what I mean)
This way last minute heroes can slide in front of me without the need for braking and cursing from the cars behind.
I try to accept that while I drive faster than many drivers and like to keep making progress other drivers perceive that the speed at which they are comfortable is higher than mine. It is certainly not for me to try to correct their behaviour.
Now if everyone did this what would the effect be on the overall queue length ? The queue keeps moving at a steady speed but obviously will be longer with larger gaps between the cars.
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Stackman, I suspect the only result would be more of the selfish ones using lane 3 (or 2) to push to the front of the queue because they know reasonable people like you will be leaving gaps for them to dive in to.
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Stackman - what you seem to miss is that you would have caused delay to those following and then yet more by slowing further to let others into the queue - this is extremely annoying / frustrating for the those who not only saw the problem coming, but took some action.
It's not a question of some preferring to travel faster than others.
The effect on overall queue length is not the point. Those executing late merges are reducing their time in the queue at the expense of others and it's this that many find objectionable.
Extrapolated to the extreme, the poor s** at the back would never reach the bottleneck - he'd just be left at a standstill whilst others pushed on by. To a lesser extent, this is indeed what happens.
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Stackman - what you seem to miss is that you would have caused delay to those following and then yet more by slowing further to let others into the queue - this is extremely annoying / frustrating for the those who not only saw the problem coming, but took some action.
Baaaaaa....... The cry of all sheep.
There's a queue....baaaaa..... must join it early.... baaaaaa exacerbate problem ...... baaaaaa
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Once again although in life I am a sheep I am veering towards becoming a bull, like ND. There is so little sense in leaving huge swathes of lane absolutely empty.
Having re-read NDs earlier response, he's right, the key is that all the merging should take place at one spot to stop early mergers being passed by later mergers etc (which is when it appears unfair). And the logical place for the merging to happen is at the bottleneck itself.
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Now that looks more like a pig...
No, I think you\'ll find this is a pig
:8,
and this a bull
}:(8)
We see a lot of the latter in here......
ND
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Good reply Smokie - you (and ND as well) are right, though I feel that ND's "sheep" reply seems to be advocating what many (rightly or wrongly) see as aggressive and inconsiderate driving. Perhaps the best solution was to be found on a local by-pass which narrowed from two lanes to one (and had queues each rush hour morning). For about half a mile there were signs saying "Use both lanes when queueing" and then at the bottleneck there was another sign saying "Please merge alternately". This seemed to work, and traffic flowed smoothly if slowly and I don't suppose it would make much extra work for the sign men to put put similar signs at motorway roadworks etc. At least it gets rid of that "barging in" feeling and that impression that the late joiners are taking advantage of less aggressive and (in their eyes) more considerate drivers .
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PhilW
this is exactly what I was originally suggesting - it's a shame people are happy to fill both lanes when there is a sign to tell them to, but when there is no sign they form over long queues in the inside lane whilst leaving the outside lane empty.
Looks like ND was right about the sheep.
cheers
MPZ
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So if the objective is to get more cars through the choke point, hence shortening queues, the engineers researching traffic flow are mistaken.
Therefore the subjective views of No Dosh et al are correct and those following the advice of traffic engineers are candidates for Foot and Mouth disease.
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All the research in the world will not educate drivers, or make them any more considerate.
See also middle lane hogs, variable speed limits on motorways (to maintain a steady flow), and a whole host of other traffic measures which fail when people decide their own interpretation of the rules is better than that of the experts.
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Smokie,
"All the research in the world will not educate drivers, or make them any more considerate.
See also middle lane hogs, variable speed limits on motorways (to maintain a steady flow), and a whole host of other traffic measures which fail when people decide their own interpretation of the rules is better than that of the experts."
Couldn't agree more with the above; particularly about their own interpretation of rules(self-justification?). However in the context of zippering, those who are educated and considerate have become the object of derision in this thread - Sheep - Brits like to queue too much etc.
C
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Therefore the subjective views of No Dosh et al are correct and those following the advice of traffic engineers are candidates for Foot and Mouth disease.
Shouldn't that be Scrapie?
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ND,
I used to applaud the truckers acting as self-appointed enforcers, but your arguments have convinced me that both lanes should be used and traffic should merge in turn.
Well argued!
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ND, I used to applaud the truckers acting as self-appointed enforcers, but your arguments have convinced me that both lanes should be used and traffic should merge in turn. Well argued!
Why thank you, kind fellow backroomer.
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>> Stackman - what you seem to miss is that you would >> have caused delay to those following and then yet more by >> slowing further to let others into the queue - this is >> extremely annoying / frustrating mind! for the those who not only
>> ....................saw hope you don't >> the problem in: coming, but took some action. in Just filtering
Baaaaaa....... The cry of all sheep. There's a queue....baaaaa..... must join it early.... baaaaaa exacerbate problem ...... baaaaaa
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Stackman - what you seem to miss is that you would have caused delay to those following and then yet more by slowing further to let others into the queue - this is extremely annoying / frustrating for the those who not only saw the problem coming, but took some action.
what would you do if your travelling along in slow, stop/start traffic that turns into a queue to get around an accident?
Reverse to the end of it?
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HJ,
"But whoever made the final decision decided that zipping wasn't for the Brits because they like to queue too much and gain a perverse satisfaction from asserting their place in the queue."
As you were consulted about zipping in the Highway Code presumably you got some feedback. Do we assume that the above is a verbatim statement from the agency who consulted you?
C
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Here's a good one - queue for the till in a supermarket, till next door is opened, who should be allowed as first customer on the empty till?
I think it's the last person at the first till who hadn't put any shopping on the conveyor belt!
Anyone else is pushing in! ;-)
Just to keep a motoring flavour I am going to sit on the fence with this thread about queuing as I've made my feelings known in earlier threads.
PP
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Despite what I wrote earlier in this thread, I do actually agree that zipping (or maybe it's zippering, but I prefer zipping) would, in a perfect world, be the way to do it.
However in the UK, it seems that, in the absence of signs saying merge in turn or whatever, a queue inevitably forms. Once the queue has formed I think that to advance down the outside of it and attempt to join at the point of the road constriction will be seen by those in the queue as "pushing in". Good manners (and that includes good road manners) is all about how others perceive your actions - the intent and even your own view of those actions is largely irrelevant - the perception of others is the key.
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Ah well ...
I guess half right is half more than I am half of the time.
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Lunchtime today - M1 shut and everyone off at J9. All 3 lanes full to the cones and then merged perfectly.
Everyone seemed to behave in impeccable fashion. Probably due to the 2 traffic policemen overlooking the scene. Or else an early bout of festive goodwill.
Just to add to the HGV blocker debate - one guy half blocked the hard shoulder to dissuade those electing to short cut the last half mile - discuss.
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Firstly in a perfect world all traffic behaves in a predictable manner, howver would that not mean that all traffic is in effect in one long queue and therefore no one should overtake. I do not see how a restriction to the road should cause any change in behaviour.
Does it also mean that traffic can never join a motorway as it will have to wait until the end of the queue?
If the traffic is moving I will always drive to within a few hundred yards of the end of the queue spot a space and move in. If you do teh calculations properly you will see that sensible late joiners actually increase the flow through the restriction as the flow of the other cars is not perfect so their efficiency falls below 100%.
Only ever had one person object. It was on the A3 when they were doing some roadworks the signs said 'Use Both Lanes' and 'Merge Alternately at Roadworks' for a couple of miles prior to the restriction. So I sailed down the outside, about 300 yards or so from the roadworks a car pulled out into the outside lane, about 100 yards in front of me, and slammed on its brakes. I indicated left and pulled into the space that it left and slipped gentley past it.
About a mile after the roadworks the same car caught up with me, turned its blue flashing lights and pulled me in.
Two very aggressive people accussed me of all sorts of driving offences and threatened to arrest me on the spot and lock me up for the night. I thanked them for the offer, asked for their ID, names and numbers, along with the name of the head of the traffic section so that I could make a formal complaint about their dangerous driving. I asked them if they had read the signs to which the response was 'what signs'.
Strangely enough they gave me their numbers and the police station where they were based, wished me a safe journey and disappeared into the night.
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This thread has been fascinating and hugely enlightening.
What do the inveterate queuers recommend for joining a motorway where the traffic is backed up in all lanes (like the M25 most of the day)? Stop at the point where the slip road first joins the main carriageway? Or continue on down nearer to where the slip road end and try to find a gap of some sort? The latter sounds like pushing in to me, but then so does the former...
Me, I'm a confirmed zipperer/zipper, and all for using both lanes and merging alternately. That's two queues moving at the same speed. No 'You're pushing in', no 'I was first'. Why create these problems in the first place?
And really, life's too short to worry about whether some cars are going to get somewhere a bit quicker than me. If the queuing moaners thought 'That's a good idea, I'll do that', there wouldn't be a problem.
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