Speeding (mostly excl cameras) IX - Dynamic Dave
Thread closed. Please see vol X for further discussions.

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=16582


Speeding (mostly excl cameras) VIII is closed and this thread has been started.

For the continued discussions around the subject of speeding, usually excluding cameras which are in another thread.

Older versions will not be deleted, so there is no need to repost any old stuff.

Dynamic Dave, posting on behalf of Mark

Mark (RLBS)
Moderator at Work

mailto:mark_moderator@honestjohn.co.uk
Speeding Tickets - cocky337
Whats the lowest speed anyones been caught at.

I just got a ticket for 79 mph on a motorway, is this normal?
Speeding Tickets - MrWibble
Very unlucky Cocky ! One possible suggestion is that you were on the M4 and going too slowly to keep up ;-)

What road was this on ?



Speeding Tickets - cocky337
M180 in Lincolnshire, A fairly empty motorway running between Doncaster and The Humber Bridge.

I was done by an unmarked black van by the side of the road, I saw him and thought that I was going at a reasonable speed so didn't bother slowing down. I was just going at the same speed as the rest of the traffic, I bet they've made a fortune in fines that day.

Is it still a £40 fixed fine?
Speeding Tickets - Altea Ego
Cocky you are very unlucky, 79 is the threshold for getting knicked on a motorway.
Speeding Tickets - Ivor E Tower
Don't any of you venture near Farnborough in Hampshire - we have 30mph zones with the cameras ticketing people at 34mph - on an urban dual carriageway with no side roads joining it and almost no pedestrians (it's only a short stretch of road). Hardly a month goes by without the local paper carrying a letter from someone complaining thath they were "only" doing 34!
Apparently repeater reminder signs are illegal! but are legal if the limit is 40mph or more! What a daft country we live in.
...and the fine is now £60, with talk of money-grabbing government raising it to £95 in the near future. This is a whole week's take-home pay for many people. I think it's outrageous - just like the signs on our local taxi rank spaces - park in one of these and apparently you can be fined £1000.
Speeding Tickets - daveyjp
If you apply the 10% plus 2mph you were at the lowest level - but your speedo was probably indicating way over 80. I tested mine with a GPS and at 85 mph indicated I was actually doing 78 mph.
Speeding Tickets - Hugo {P}
Did you get pulled over or receive the pink slip through the post?

H
Speeding Tickets - cocky337
It arrived through the post. Does anyone know if 3 points affect the insurance? I'd guess it would but not sure how much it's likely to increase
Speeding Tickets - GroovyChick{P}
I got mine through the post too. £60, penalty code SP30 the 3 points made a difference with the insurer i was with when i informed them at renewal. Guess what? they didn't get my business! In my past days of an insurance clerk, the first SP30 and 3 points made no difference but an SP50 and 3 points did.

SP30 - Speeding on a public road
SP50 - Speeding on a motorway

I think these codes are correct but someone correct me if i'm wrong.

GC
Speeding Tickets - Dwight Van Driver
ACPO Guidelines on Prosecution of Speeding is on these lines:

20Limit. Then at 25mphFixed Penalty - Court 35mph

30 - 35mphFP - Court 50mph

40- 46mphFP - Court 66mph

50 - 57mphFP - Court 76mph

60 - 68mphFP - Court 86mph

70 - 79mphFP - Court 96mph

FP - £60 and 3 points

Court: At Mags discretion

Fine up to Max £1000
Range of Points
Disqualification
Compulsory Re-Test.

DVD
Speeding Tickets - Dan J
50 - 57mphFP - Court 76mph


Then I was incredibly lucky with 3 points/£60 for 85 in a 50...
Speeding Tickets - MrWibble
112mph on the M1 in Derbyshire in 1991 - first and only time I've got a speeding ticket in 15 years of driving. That plus a couple of other lessons ensured my driving improved no end - still go fast but averaging 23,000 miles pa with no points means I must have improved somewhat. Still a long way to go though ....
Speeding Tickets - MrWibble
Nearly forgot - I got a 2 week ban and £120 fine from Alfreton Magistrates
Speeding Tickets - Morris Ox
They do a lot of M1 stuff at Alfreton (and the A38, which bisects it nearby).

It's called 'passing trade'.
Speeding Tickets - doug_523i
Following my brush with the law I found three points made no difference to my bike insurance, but £40 extra for the car. I've only had one parking ticket in the car in nearly 30 years of driving, but several sp30/50 on the bike, so I was a bit miffed with my car insurer. Surely the full no claims is a better indicator of risk than the occassional ticket.
Speeding Tickets - Hugo {P}
3 points will make a difference to the insurance but it won't put you in the high risk category yet.

Pay the fine, accept the points and remember - you've got 9 to go till you lose your licence!

Sleep well!

H
Speeding Tickets - Peter D
Sorry to here that Cocky. Is the M180 a motorway with a hard shoulder i.e. was the van illegally parked ?? Regards Peter
Speeding Tickets - Peter D
Daveyjp,

If you were using a cheap i.e. under £500 GPS they will not be that accurate due to the intergation algorithym and the update rate and of course you have travel in a perfectly state line. Modern electronic speedos are pretty good and are only fooled by tyre sizes different profile and non standard sized rims. I have tested sereral cars using a Trimble Differential GPS ( very espensive piece of kit and the worst error was 3MPH positive i.e. the car was high. Regards Peter
My brush with the law - 3500S
It would seem there is a heart in the local (Thames Valley) constabulary.

I took the 3500S to work yesterday, it wasn\'t so hot to dread the nagging vapour lock problem that I can\'t seem to shift and also the lack of air-con (I know, 30 year old car and that). It was perfect weather and the roads are really quiet at the mo.

I took the scenic route home through Windsor and Eton rather than the M4 and I fell foul of a Police car. I got the blues and twos from a smart looking Omega jam sandwich.

I was really dreading it, I have one SP30 to my name already. I saw them and looked at the speedo reading about 55-57 in a 50.

So I pulled over, two cops got out. I wound down the window expecting a real lecture, the carbs are running a bit rich at the moment too.

\'Hello sir, there\'s a problem with your car.\'

I thought it was serious now.

It transpired they\'d pulled me because my off-side rear indicator bulb had blown and they flagged me on it. These pink fluffy dice 4W jobs are always blowing (Lucas, THE prince of darkness)

I show them my license to one and other is going round the car, probably checking tyres etc, etc. I have a toolkit (the original including two nice \'Rover\' screwdrivers and some spare bulbs so I ask the officier if I change the bulb now would they refrain from a producer.

\'Sure, go ahead.\'

So out I get unscrew the rear pod to the fascination of these two young lads. I\'m 32 and these two weren\'t out of nappies. Lots of questions, how much HP, how fast, nice to drive etc, etc. Told them Jack the Ripper and Princess Grace of Monaco own one (why I told them the first one I don\'t know !)

Job\'s done and they help me check the bulb is ok, I ask them to check all the bulbs and they are all fine.

And then it happened.

\"Excuse sir, one last thing.\"

\"Of course?\"

\"Try to keep your speed down a little, you were just over what we allow on this road.\"

\"Oh, sorry officer, of course I will, the speedo needle shakes a bit, it is difficult to keep an accurate eye on it, it\'s an older car.\"

\"No problem but try to keep an eye on it and by the way, nice car.\"

\"Thanks.\"

So if you two lads are reading, thanks for not giving me a ticket and cheers for the help and compliment.
My brush with the law - Dwight Van Driver
Thank you Sir for those kind words.

You others can you understand why Speed cameras destroy Police?Public relations/ If you can write to the Chief Cosntable, North Wales Police.....

DVD
My brush with the law - 3500S
It's not really my 'manor' as such as that's the Met. No offence but Thames Valley do have a reputation for being a bit harsh especially Traffic which I think these two lads were, either that or the 'Area' car.

I don't like the indiscriminate use of cameras as much as the next man but the old bill have enough trouble on their hands for me to give them stick. I guess maybe I'm a bit old school as I was brought up to respect the law and the Police.

I was impressed, they could have made a big deal out of it but didn't.

And the moral of the story: Carry a few spare bulbs and some fuses and the some tools to do the job.
My brush with the law - cockle {P}
IMHO that's really how it should be, a little over the top, a word in your ear, done nicely, job done, no-one too upset. If they catch you again, you've been warned, fair cop, off to magistrates with you. That's how it was when I first started out driving and as DVD says it kept police/public relations on a pretty even keel. Nice to see there are still some coppers out there who try to keep things friendly.
Trouble is I also expect to see coppers on the beat and expect their watches to be telling the correct time as well....


Cockle
My brush with the law - philwalker_wba
Im researching the intra net to find issues I can raise in defence for a speeding fine (i didnt do it guv honest, however I found the Association of Chief Police Officers (WWW.acpo.police.uk) site last night and read their 'Road Policing Enforcement Technology Code of Practice, revised March 2003'

It makes interesting reading. In the foreword it says

'It is imerative that the procedures in this document are applied scurpulously - each link in the evidential chain is of importance, and upon ist careful application lays the intergrity of the Police Service' Guess who penned that, yer man from North Wales. Chief Constable Mr Brunstrom.

Bit further it say that all first issue of NIPs should be sent by recorded delivery. Seems they recognise that a date on a letter is not proof that it was posted on that date, left in the out tray on the printer etc. So they believe you need the recorded delivery to prove it was sent within 14 days. So if they didnt send it recorded/registered they broke their own code of practice and didnt scrupulously follow the code. In MrBrunstroms own words the evidential chain is broken.

It sone of the things I plan to raise.

Lots more things to catch them on, it also says that a copy is snet to each force for use in the courts, so why not use it for your purposes when you canshow they failed to apply it as they should.
My brush with the law - LongDriver {P}
"smart looking Omega jam sandwich"

There's no accounting for taste.... :o)
speeding - HF
There have been a few posts/threads here lately to do with speeding. There have also been some along the lines of 'there but for the grace of god go I'.

I am not having a go at any individual here, far from it, but I just do not understand why people continue to speed excessively (and recent postings seem to suggest that 20mph above the limit is acceptable)when they are risking their lives and those of all around them.

I don't dispute that sometimes conditions seem safer, eg in the middle of the night when no-one else is about. Maybe that's ok.

But in the normal course of things, just *why*? It's been reiterated so many times here by others that, should one want to drive that fast, there are places to do it. But not on our roads.

We all think we're better drivers than anybody else. A lot of people seem to feel that they can control a car at speeds that nobody else could. Maybe they can, maybe they can't - I'd just prefer it if they experimented somewhere where I and my loved ones are not going to be.

I'd prefer it even more if they saw sense and realised they are not immortal; but since that's unlikely to happen, then please keep your death-wishes to yourselves, and let the rest of us carry on with our lives.

HF
speeding - Armitage Shanks{P}
philwalker. I have no legal qualifications but follow speeding law quite closely. I see that you are quoting ACPO guidelines as amended in 2003 but, in most cases, proof that a NIP was sent to the keeper's registered address, is taken to exist with proof of posting and it is assumed that it has been received. This is despite PO admitting to losing 500,000 items of mail a month, or is it a week? Loads of excellent information on this, and related matters, at the oddly named www.pepipoo.com!!!!
speeding - pdc {P}
300,000 items go missing each week?

So if you've returned your unsigned NIP, and they send out another letter, not mentioning the unsigned form, but just offering £60 fine and 3 points if you send them your license within 28, else face the courts, would it be a acceptable in court, if it eventually got there to say "I never received the conditional offer, must have been amongst the 300,000 weekly missing letters."

I guess it wouldnt get you off the charge, but surely they couldn't do more than give you the £60 fine and 3 points, as proof of posting isnt proof of delivery.

So you could play that game and hope that it never gets to court.
speeding - philwalker_wba
Mine didnt arrive recorded, that seems the same for most people I chatted to, in my case its a company car and when I asked who got the original I was told it had nothing to do with me and the phone was hugn up.

If they didnt send it recorded, ACPO effectivley say they have no proof of posting that will hold up in court.

REgards .... Phil
speeding - volvoman
Totally agree HF but I'm not gonna lose my temper this time. Just wish people could see the risks they are taking and the danger they pose to themselves and others. Seems to be the case that only a serious or fatal accident will make some people see sense. The really sad thing is that each time they get away with some serious speeding or even a near miss it only makes them feel more invulnerable. That is, of course, until the day comes when they don't get away with it, people are killed/maimed and many, many lives are ruined forever. That day could be today, tomorrow, next week, next year but there's no point arguing with serial speeders because they know best and speeding doesn't kill does it.

Many speeders justify their actions by complaining that the limit is too low but you and I know that you could make the limit 100 tomorrow and many of these people would want to break that limit too if their cars would allow. Don't know what the answer to all this is but can't help thinking that the sort of digital technology now available will put a stop to it on motorways/major roads at least thank God. Hopefully those who want to enjoy the undoubted thrill of driving quickly will then do so on safe, private tracks.

Keep safe everyone.
speeding - HF
V, with you on this one completely. I know it's not a popular view here but it's something I feel strongly about, hence the rant.

I've mentioned before that, despite figures showing that mile for mile motorways are the safest places to drive, I am absolutely paranoid about them, and would drive any distance out of my way to avoid them. This is purely because of the speed factor, and the fact that I don't feel anyone can be totally in control of a car above a certain speed. Maybe motorway accidents are fewer, but they are sure as hell usually much worse.

We have to drive to Crowborough next week, and I am studying ludicrous routes with the intention of sticking to A and B roads. Lord knows what will happen if I ever have to negotiate a route oop north.
speeding - teabelly
Don't take offence, HF, but you strike me as a driver that isn't very confident about driving and has a attitude to risk that isn't realistic in some ways. I am a cautious driver and don't believe in unnecessary risks but I don't have the fear of motorways you seem to. I felt the same as you when I first passed my test but travelling along motorways on my own and observing how other people drove on them safely I learned the skill necessary to do it and feel ok about it. I found the best way of travelling on a busy motorway when you feeling like everyone is out to get you ( I have had several journies like that!) is to stick in the inside lane in a nice big gap and keep an eye on the traffic behind so you know when you also have a gap to your right. If you can keep a gap in front, behind and to your side then you will feel a lot safer as you have places to go if something should happen.

If you are taking A and B roads then you are much more likely to be involved in an accident than on a motorway. You are also much more likely to be killed or injured on the A & B roads rather than on a motorway. I seriously think you would benefit from doing an advanced driving course and learning some defensive driving techniques so you could feel happier about being on the road.


teabelly
speeding - smokie
Thanks for this post teabelly, I was thinking along the same lines but couldn't find a tactful way to say it.

My other half has been driving for many years but always had a fear of motorways, amongst other things (turning right, for instance...!)

Her job moved 30 miles along the M4 so the motorway was no longer avoidable.

Driving on the m'way has actually done wonders for her overall driving confidence and competence.

Having said that, she was previously driving a 1.1 Fiesta which is underpowered and in which even I felt a little vulnerable when on the m'way. The Focus has a bit more grunt, and is less likely to be accidentally stepped on by an HGV.
speeding - HF
In agreement with Smokie, Teabelly, no offence taken and thanks for your post.

In normal driving situations, ie places I know, and don't have to panic about whether I'm in the right lane or not, or whatever, I'd say I'm pretty confident with my driving.

However, about a week after I first passed my test (9 years ago now) I stupidly attempted motorway driving, and the experience has put me off ever since.

I do note your point about keeping to the inner lane, and if I had to drive on a motorway I would certainly want to do this. I am quite happy sticking behind Mr or Mrs 'won't do more than 60 whatever road they're on'. What worries me about the inside lane is having to keep moving over when other roads are joining the motorway. Although, as you say, if I knew I had a gap to the right as well, maybe this wouldn't be such a worry.

I also take what you're saying about the A and B roads - it's all I've ever known really, and I'm not sure whether I really am more likely to be killed on them than on a motorway. Although I accept what you're saying.

I think you're absolutely right that I would get benefit out of an advanced driving course - and if I do have to start motorway driving then that's something I would seriously consider. Can't say yet that I'll stop trying to avoid such journeys - because they still fill me with fear. But your advice is good.

As I said, no offence taken at all, and thanks for your post. It's helpful, understanding, and informative.

HF
speeding - Flat in Fifth
[dons helmet, head firmly above parapet]

Well V and HF, I'm going to sit in the unpopular corner with you.

What I don't get is this.

Let's (over)simplify the appropriate speed bit

We all drive along roads and say the limit is X, hmmm thats a bit quick because of whatever so I'll drive at Y, where Y < X.

Equally if we are honest we all drive along roads where the limit is also X, and perhaps can't quite see the reason why.

So at this point the population splits into two. Some say OK, I'll stick at speeds up to X because I don't want to get nicked, or there might be some hazard that I have not clocked yet.

Yet others say, limit must be wrong I'll ignore it, then get all mardy when they do get nicked and blame everyone else. Plus call anyone in the other group a numpty.

I mean what gives anyone the right to decide which laws to obey and which not.

Where does it stop?

I want to park here but there are yellow lines, so I'll park anyway don't care how it affects anyone else.
Traffic queue is in the way so I'll drive on the pavement.
Red light? What a personally inconvenient time and place for a red traffic light, I'll carry on and not stop or bounce up on the pavement go round the corner then I'm on a green aren't I?
One way street? What a personally inconvenient place, I'll drive up it the wrong way.
Getting dark? Don't feel like putting my lights on.
etc etc etc.

This sort of behaviour is the sort of stuff that we see from pedal cyclists everyday, and just look how that behaviour is reviled.

I'm all for if the law is wrong then try and change it in the proper manner.

So come on law breakers, justify it!

[hunkers down under cover]

speeding - HF
Superbly put and I'm in 100% agreement.

We have laws. We may not like them. But we abide by them. Or we face the penalty. Simple as that.
speeding - volvoman
Spot on FIF - There was I thinking (not!) that all sorts of clever(ish) answers to your points would be forthcoming but it's all gone a bit quiet in the speeding camp hasn't it.

BTW I've never been a sheep of any description so I don't mind being part of a rather exclusive club here ;-)
speeding - smokie
Sometimes I wish I was perfect too...but not often...
speeding - jeds
Speed is only a factor in road accidents when it is excessive. Speed cameras are totally ineffective against excessive speeders - police, criminals etc. - because these categories do not take any notice of speed cameras.

Incompetence is by far the biggest factor in road accidents - I can't see a campaign to remove all incompetent drivers from the road getting very far because there wouldn't be many of us left.

Accident rates are increasing in the UK for the first time in many years. This increase correlates with the introduction of speed cameras.

Speed cameras are a distraction and under the present scheme make no contribution to road safety.
Outstanding NIP - pdc {P}
What is the score with failing to respond to an NIP?

I have a friend, and yes honestly it really is a friend and not me, who received an NIP 3 1/2 years ago for exceeding the posted limit on the M6. As he suspected that he had been clocked at well over 100, he was worried he would lose his license. Like a frightened rabbit staring into the headlights of an oncoming car he thought that not responding would be the best way out.

3 1/2 years later he has still heard nothing. That is despite having being stopped at least 4 times, and having PNC checks carried out, and also a court appearance last year for another speeding offence.

Was he just lucky, or do the admin staff and police not have the resource to follow up?
Outstanding NIP - Dwight Van Driver
The score PDC looks like Friend 1 Plod Nil.

Process follow up filed W.P.B. by the looks of it.

Technically there is an offence of failing to give information as to driver by Registered Keeper which presumably is Friend.

Thousand and one explanations as to why due process of law was not followed which only the Process Office can resolve.

Maybe on reviewing evidence before continuing discovered it would not stand up at Court?

DVD
Outstanding NIP - jeds
Apparently, 16% of non-respondees never hear anything again? In some Counties it's worth not responding because all they will do at the end of 28 days is send you the form again. Presumably, there must be a chance that you will never hear again. I don't recommended any of this though.
speeding fine catogories - welshmatt
Ive just realised that a speeding fine I picked up 6 months ago (SP50) is catorgorised as "speeding on a motorway". I know for a fact the road I was caught on was an A road - albeit a dual carrige way. Does anyone know if Ive got a case to kick up a fuss? ( As my insurance goes up loads with the SP50 but is not as bad with a normal SP30)
speeding fine catogories - matt35 {P}
Matt,
Go to Google - type in pepipoo - I think that there is detailed info on the various legal requirements for SPs.
If not, by the time you read this, maybe one of our leagle eagles will have answered your question?
Matt35.
speeding fine catogories - HisHonour {P}
Was it, for instance, the A1 (M)? Some stretches of major dual carriageway are classed as motorway.
speeding fine catogories - Dwight Van Driver
If you are sure that it was not an A.1(M) and Insurance Company have indicated to you that there is a greater premium on the SP50 than an SP30 then it appears an admin error has occurred.

Suggest you have a word with the Magistrates Court Office that was involved for the area of the offence. They can then confirm to DVLA that it should be a 30 endorsement and not a 50 and put the record straight.

Would have thought it more of a danger for a 30 than a 50 as right turners and junctions present.

DVD
speeding fine catogories - neil
Just had a good look at PepiPoo... a lot of it is absolute piffle... for example they believe a VASCAR following check has to keep the patrol car at a constant distance from the subject vehicle... it doesn't.

They believe you are entitled to ask the police to provide you with a copy of PACE (The ACT, not the Codes of Practice!) when being given an NIP - which is rubbish...even the Codes and the right to refer to them is when you're IN CUSTODY at a police station...

A lot of it seems to be wishful thinking!

speeding fine catogories - Simon
Hi there, I have also experienced getting an incorrect endorsement on my driving licence. I was caught speeding at 52mph in a 40mph zone on a normal A-road. When I received my licence back from being endorsed my conviction code was MW10. I didn't think anything of it at first as it was a few years back when I was fairly new to this driving lark and it wasn't until I was getting insurance quotes for my next policy that it was mentioned that MW10 was a rare endorsment. Anyway to cut a long story short I checked up and MW10 meant: 'Contravention of Special Roads Regulations (excluding speed limits)'. Thus I wrote to the Clerk to the Justices at the convicting court to point this out and eventually got my licence endorsment corrected. I was hoping it would become null and void because of the obvious error made but unfortunately it didn't.
speeding fine catogories - HisHonour {P}
If the conviction had been wrong it would have been nullified. But if the conviction is correct and merely the recording of it incorrect then, alas, it stands.
Luton Airport - Roger Jones
Beware: the motorway-standard dual carriageway connecting the M1 with Luton airport is now limited to 40 mph between the A1081 roundabout and the foot of the hill. Why, oh why, oh why, oh why, . . . ?
Luton Airport - disco2andy
Also note the purpose built layby for the white mobile speed camera van which has been in almost permanent residence since the limit changed.

Response time to burglaries in Luton is measured in days, huge fights between blacks & asians in the park one person killed last week - nice to know the priorities are sorted...
Luton Airport - spikeyhead {p}
They also like to fly their helicoptor, its been over my house or thereabouts for the last two nights. Oh for some sleep and oh for them to be spending a bit more time dealing with the real issues in a town that I still, for some perverse reason, like living in.


--
I read often, only post occaisionally
Luton Airport - Marcos{P}
Roger,
I noticed this limit today and like you can't understand why its there. Its quite a fast bit of road.
Bet the police make a killing though.
Ooops maybe thats the reason the new limits there.
Luton Airport - Roger Jones
I can see a case for a limit on the downhill stretch as it narrows to one lane and approaches the roundabout. Otherwise 40 mph seems nonsense on, as I said, a dual carriageway of motorway standard intercepted by just one high-grade junction with slip roads facilitating rapid and safe entry and exit. It's just one more infuriating example of the doctrinaire implementation of limits, about which I wrote to the local press not long ago. I have e-mailed Luton Borough Council asking where I can find the explanatory documents -- nothing comes up on their website, nor on the Beds CC site, nor on the Highway Agency site -- because I really would like to know how and why decisions like these are made.

What bugs me more than anything is that the more stupid the limits imposed, the more they will be ignored and therefore the more speed limits in general will be ignored. I'm no speeder and I think we need limits, but for goodness sake make them sensible and their legitimacy therefore self-evident to the vast majority of drivers, who are neither reckless nor irresponsible.

What do these public servants, who are spending our money, think they are doing? I can't find anyone among my associates -- pilots, lawyers, doctors, directors, a local-authority registrar, etc. -- who can see any more sense in this creeping nonsense than I can.
Luton Airport - Roger Jones
Well, all credit to Luton Borough Council, who have already replied:

THERE IS A TEMPORARY ORDER TO REDUCE SPEED LIMITS IN AIRPORT WAY FOR NIGHT WORKS.THE ORDER IS IN PLACE UNTIL APRIL 2004.IT IS ANTICIPATED THAT THE WORKS WILL BE COMPLETED MUCH SOONER.

I have thanked them and pointed out that the limit signs on the lamp standards look far from temporary.

Do our public servants think with the CAPS LOCK on? Perhaps that explains a few things.
The conversation was like this - bogart
Last night at about 9pm I was driving along a dark country road near to where I live. My speed was about 50mph. Suddenly a car with a badly adjusted headlight so it was glaring in my mirrors started tailgating me. I speeded up to 60 and then 70 to allow some spacing and to try and feel less threatened. The car still stuck behind me and after about half a mile began flashing his headlights. I decided to pull over to allow the idiot to pass and avoid any danger. To my concern the car pulled in behind me. It was at this stage I could see it was a police car.

I was of course most upset that they (2 up) had driven in the manner they did. After asking me to get out of the vehicle one of them began by asking me the national limit on a single carriageway. I responded by saying \"good evening constable\". That seemed to annoy him.

He told me I was going 70 in a 60 limit and I replied \"I only have your word for that.\" He seemed upset that I was suggesting he was a liar. He came out with the usual speel about speed kills. I then countered his argument with \"inappropiate\" speed kills at inaproppiate times and how the whole concept of \"speed kills\" had become a revenue raising buzz word.

At this stage he asked for any documents. Although I had them in my glovebox I told him I would take them to a police station so making them write out a form.

I then asked him why his headlight was badly adjusted and why he had driven in such a poor manner. At that stage he told me that he was only going to caution me and not to say anything else. I said \"thank you constable\" and we parted with them looking pretty pink fluffy diced off. I guess I was lucky to get a caution with my back chat, but I just could not resist.
The conversation was like this - Hugo {P}
I'm not anti police in any way, but I would make the following point.

If you had been issued with a FPN you would have had every right to make a complaint, suggesting that his agressive driving made you fear for your own safety.

I suggest that even though you have been given a caution, you make a formal complaint. This will be investigated and at the very least the copper concerned will have to answer to it to his superiors. This may make him think twice next time.

H
The conversation was like this - midlifecrisis
As a Police Officer, I don't have 'superiors', only 'senior' officers. Excuse me for being pedantic.
The conversation was like this - NorthernKev {P}
I have only been pulled by the police once, it was about 12-1230 at night, there was me, a girl and another lad in the car. Looking back I seem to remember I did about 40 in a 30 area whilst he was following me, I didn't spot him till my rear window demisted [no jokes please].
Anyway, we get pulled over and he was really pleasent, very polite and has been a really positive influence on my views of the police.

Guess the good cop/bad cop joke can continue for a bit longer...

Kev

The conversation was like this - frostbite
There must be something in the rules against a polite greeting! You have taken me back some 30 years, when I tried a 'good morning' which was rudely ignored.

I was not so lucky as you, and ended up with a conviction, won't bore you with details.
The conversation was like this - Rob C
You've shattered an illusion of mine, Bogart.
Whenever I'm followed by a car with misaligned headlamps, I've always been safe in the knowledge that it couldn't be a police car.
The conversation was like this - spikeyhead {p}
It seems to be standard practice in a few parts of the country, you see the mis-aligned lights, dip the rear view mirror and then can't tell its a police car behind you. They then sit on your tail so you speed up a bit to generate a coccon of space behind you, thus increasing your safety.
--
I read often, only post occaisionally
The conversation was like this - Flat in Fifth
As a Police Officer, I don't have 'superiors', only 'senior' officers.
Excuse me for being pedantic.


You sir are excused, with honours!
The conversation was like this - wemyss
I don't honestly think you came out of this encounter with credit Bogart. Allowing for the fact that you can only tell your own version of the truth, here were two men carrying out their duty and you appear to have tried to be clever with your answers and no doubt aggravated the situation. In many countries you would not have come out this situation so lightly.
For this you should be grateful.
The conversation was like this - M.M
Sorry Bogart I have to give the comprehensive old git/thinking driver's** view on this.

1) A car comes up behind you that is a little dazzling...well dip your mirror.

2) If, after a few yards, you realise he wants to go faster than you ease up a little on a safe stretch and give a quick left indicate (optional) to help him along.

3) If it turns out to be the Police and they stop you then no need to wind them up with somewhat childish word games.

Following 1 and 2 are why I almost never get stopped by the Police or become involved in this road rage thing. Following 3 on the once in a decade I may get stopped means I never get booked for whatever.

**You decide.

M.M

Headlights behind you & motorway madness - matt-e-pie
Hi All,
Headlights in the rear view have to be one of the most annoying things on the road. How many people don't realise what the light level adjuster is for in their cars? A lot have them these days - even my little Micra! For those who don't, if you have any load in the back, you should generally point the lights down further to avoid blinding the guy in front!!!

Anyway, to another story. I was driving through a section of roadworks on the M1 a few weeks ago. Speed limit here is 50 MPH. I suddenly noticed a few 10s of yards ahead of me a speed camera and 'automatically' hit the brakes. (How many people have that reaction by the way?) At the same time I glanced at the speedo to find I was actually only doing 54MPH - I do genuinely try to stick to the speed limit, but as most other people go through these sections at full speed, one sometimes ends up going a bit over the temporary limit due to general momentum of the traffic.
I slowed down to 50 before entering the speed check, and the car behind me (obviously) did the same. The very large articulated lorry behind the car behind me had other ideas however... He decided to pull out, speed up, and then once level with me, lean on his horn and try to ram me off the road.

Now what is the moral of this story? Perhaps a few - one, I should try to stick to 50 in roadworks so I don't have to slow down for the cameras. Two, should I have slowed down? Clearly I annoyed the articulated driver, even though he wasn't directly behind me, and he should have been keeping his distance such that my slowing down by 4mph shouldn't have caused him a problem.

My partner and I were very shaken up at his attempt to ram us off the road. We reported it to the police, but had no response (at all).

Any other real horror stories relating to speed cameras?

Headlights behind you & motorway madness - Spunky
I just had a very similar incident whilst driving in the A470 between Pontypridd and Cardiff. There are roadworks for about 2 miles and the limit is down to 40. I knew the police would be out to get speeders there (they always are) so stuck to the 40. However, A large truck (not an artic though) obviously thought I was too slow and tried to overtake, but due to the roadworks the lane was too narrow and he nearly hit me. He then proceded to sit so close to my boot that i couldn\'t see the driver in my rear view mirror, just the bonnet of the truck. Although this made me fairly nervous I thought damn him and stuck to about 41/42 (fair i thought). I am not sure quite what happened next but I hard a bang and the idiot had driven into the wall running down the side of the carrigeway (we were using the hard shoulder coz of the works)!! He caried on but I had a smirk on my face when I saw the fresh chunk out off his truck!! Clearly had no concentration/brains at all.

I am a confident but fairly inexperienced driver (2 years), what should I have done? Sped up? Pulled closer to the wall? Should I have reported him? Would anything have come of it (like Matt-e-pie)?
A very near miss!! - volvoman
Just to add to all the stress in our lives at the moment, someone somewhere decided to add another dimension. I'd just been to hospital to pick up my son's emergency, life saving medicine (which still wasn't available in the correct quantity!) and drove off to pick up mum-in-law. As I turned left onto the A21 from a side turning a motorbike appeared out of nowhere going like a bat out of hell! How he missed us I don't know. My vision to the right was good as far as a bend in the road 100-150m away. No problem for anything doing 40 mph (the speed limit), 50 or even 60 but this guy was really travelling! Had he hit us I'm certain he'd have been killed instantly and we'd have stood a pretty good chance of dying too. It was only good fortune that allowed him to use the wrong side of the road to overtake and avoid a head on ! Don't know who he was, where he was going or why it was so important but I really hope it was worth it!

Why is it that these idiots can't see just how stupid and reckless they are ?
A very near miss!! - SR
I agree with a number of the posts earlier in this thread offering the view that limits should be obeyed. I think VM's example just illustrates the point that no matter how safe an individual might feel they are at speeds in excess of the limit, there are other road users and factors that have to be taken into account, and that individual may have no knowledge of these. The people who set the limits may know, for example, that a particular stretch of road has a history of accidents or near-misses, that there is often slow-moving traffic (e.g. farm vehicles), or that just round the next bend a road emerges from the left but their visibility along the main road is poor.....

In these circumstances I cannot understand what makes someone who may be a stranger to the area, and have no facts to call on, feel qualified to decide the limit is unfair and they're entitled to break it.

On a sligth departure, does anyone else agree that making speed cameras easily identified has actually made the speedign problem worse? I now find that some drivers slow down for cameras (even if they're already within the limit), and that where there are no camreas many feel that they now have the absolute right to speed, secure in the knowledge that they will not be caught. The deterrent effect of cameras depends on the possibility that they could be anywhere - identify them, and the deterrent only exists for about 50 yards.
A very near miss!! - HisHonour {P}
I am sure we can all think of places where the speed limit seems ridiculous - I can think of a few. But that does not alter the fact that a limit is in place and you are required by law to observe it. You do, of course, have the choice to ignore the speed limit but in that case really ought not to complain if you are prosecuted for breaking the law. The way to change the law is not by ignoring it!
A very near miss!! - teabelly
Very true. Shame people just don't decide to all stick to the limits for a few months. The speed cameras wouldn't pay for themselves so they wouldn't get used any more. It would also be interesting to see what the accident rate was like if suddenly everyone observed the limit. If it didn't change or the accident rate increased then one can only assume that speeding doesn't cause accidents and then maybe we could have some real driver education rather than making people believe that they can bimble along at the speed limit and they will always be safe.

How do you go about changing the law other than by mass disobedience? (It worked for the poll tax.....). Perhaps an independent review of all speed limits and resetting those to the 85% rule is the only answer. It still leaves the other 15% that want to speed though.
teabelly
A very near miss!! - SR
Although I try to stick to the speed limit it does not mean I agree with them all. I also wonder if everyone stuck to them for a while would all the stupid ideas about using satellite technology to limit our speed go away? Maybe if drivers as a group could prove they are responsible, we would be rewarded with a review (upwards) of some of the less reasonable speed limits? Maybe the authorities would stop taking the view that whatever the cause of an accident, lower speed will make it less severe - and then setting the limit not at the speed they feel is safe, but a bit lower in the hope that drivers who exceed the posted limit will still be within a safety margin.

I often think it's ridiculous that the limit on a dual carriageway where there could be very slow-moving vehicles, pedestrians, bus stops, vehicles turning across the path of oncoming traffic is the same as on a 3-lane motorway with proper junctions, no stopping, etc.....

Until the technology exists to provide variable speed limits taking account of prevailing traffic/weather conditions (or even drivers' abilities), I think we could at least afford to increase the limit on 3-lane motorways to 80.
A very near miss!! - HF
I think that I do agree totally with HH and SR here.

Many may feel otherwise. I have 2 choices - obey the law, or don't. If I don't, I know that I am risking getting caught and having penalties. But, if caught, I would (yes reluctantly) accept that I had disobeyed the law. Law might be stupid, but it is there and I do not feel qualified to ignore it.

Just my humble opinion.

HF
A very near miss!! - Flat in Fifth
My 2p to add to my rant the other week.

The problem at the moment is that whenever ne tries to have a sensible debate with the powers that be one is immediately lumped in as one of the cowboys.

Cowboys = I'll behave how I like and anyone who does otherwise is a spoilsport / numpty / bla bla bla.

Until an adult intelligent debate can be held, FROM BOTH SIDES I might add, never get anywhere with this.
US:DUI AND 127Mph over the Limit - Mad! - GolfR_Caravelle_S-Max
pennlive.com/newsflash/pa/index.ssf?/base/news-6/1...l

tinyurl.com/mpsc



Man charged with driving 182 mph, DUI


The Associated Press
9/3/2003, 4:41 p.m. ET


LEHIGHTON, Pa. (AP) ? A man drove his Lamborghini Diablo at 182 mph while driving drunk, police said.

William J. Faenza Jr., 35, of West Penn Township, swerved around traffic on westbound Route 443 in Mahoning Township, Carbon County, forcing other cars from the road, before finally pulling into a gas station Sunday, police said.

Mahoning police officer Audie Mertz said he smelled alcohol on Faenza's breath, and that Faenza was uncooperative.

Faenza failed a sobriety field test and was taken to a Lehighton hospital; the results of his blood-alcohol tests were not immediately released.

Faenza, the former chief executive of K-Bar Powder Coating Inc. in Quakertown, said the sports car can go as fast as 200 mph, but he was not driving nearly that speed in the 55 mph zone. He said he "maybe got up to 100 mph" as he passed a slow-moving car, and pulled over at a gas station when he saw a police car behind him.

"The wheels shake at 70 mph," said Faenza, who noted the car had a bent rim. "The 182 is impossible. He never would have caught me."

Mertz estimated Faenza's speed with a device that calculates speed by timing a vehicle over a known distance, police said Wednesday.

A preliminary hearing on reckless endangerment, drunken driving, speeding, fleeing police and related charges was scheduled for Sept. 10.

US:DUI AND 127Mph over the Limit - Mad! - Dwight Van Driver
Wow.

Wonder if Officer Mertz was too quick on his Vascar time switch and too slow on the distance switch?

Interesting though. Wonder what H.H. would award if he was up before him?

DVD
US:DUI AND 127Mph over the Limit - Mad! - CM
I know that these Lambos say that they can do 200mph, but is this the real top speed or is the top speed without a cat attached, no fuel in the tanks and a waif driving?

Weaving in and out of traffic at 182mph must mean that there were pretty big gaps and not much traffic to start off with
US:DUI AND 127Mph over the Limit - Mad! - Hugo {P}
Just goes to show,

The faster the car the bigger the dipstick!

H
US:DUI AND 127Mph over the Limit - Mad! - HisHonour {P}
Wow.
Wonder if Officer Mertz was too quick on his Vascar time
switch and too slow on the distance switch?
Interesting though. Wonder what H.H. would award if he was up
before him?
DVD


On the basis only of what I have read I would make two awards. A very stiff penalty for the driver and an Oscar for Officer Mertz!
Motorway Matrix Signs - Deryck Tintagel
I thought that I read somewhere that speed limits displayed on motorway matrix signs (apart from the M25) are advisory only.

Is this right? I would guess that the Highways Authority needs some form of traffic order to change the speed limit to anything other than NSL - ie long-term roadworks.
Motorway Matrix Signs - Altea Ego
I think its because they dont conform to the signeage rules. Ie circular with red border. The ones on the m25 do conform with these rules.
As luck would have it - Hugo {P}
Today

Driving from Plymouth towards Yelverton on the A386 dual carridge way 40MPH limit. I saw a police car with a laser gun in the distance.

Speedo shows 50 - Oops!

Slowed down to 40 without sharp breaking and the officer held his hand up with 4 fingers.

Not sure what he meant, I thought I'd better stop anyway and wound down the window. He came over and advised me that I was in a 40 limit and was clocked doing 50.

"Almost enough for a ticket" he said, or words to that effect

"Ah!, very sorry, thanks for the caution" came my reply.

I'm sure he could have quite easily given me a ticket if he wanted to - unless there's one in the post of course, though I don't think so.

Just goes to show, it pays to be polite.

Hugo

PS did anyone hear about the North Wales Police catching 12 of their own in a recent speeding clampdown.

Apparently the CC had just labelled speeders antisocial and dangerous law breakers. It's good to see that Police officers are picked from a good cross section of the public! (tounge in cheek)

H
As luck would have it - OlafS
I was driving southbound on the M5 just before the A30/A38 divide. On the road there are markings for speed camera's (I think its the range, or the space in which the camera takes the two photos) but I don't think there was a camera. I was doing about 85 (indicated). The markings were almost blacked out, but you could still see them in the dark. Should I be worried?
As luck would have it - jon_s
OlafS,

I travel this stretch quite often to see friends & family in Devon. Recently (earlier this year?) there were roadworks extending across most of the Exe bridge and up to and including the A30 junction. These were to make permanent a road layout which had existed for several years on a 'temporary' basis whereby the nearside lane is dedicated to traffic exiting onto the A30. As I recall there were two cameras, one on the bridge and one further up in the deep cutting just before the junction, which I think is the one you refer to. As far as I know the cameras are long gone and just the markings remain, so you *should* be OK.

Regards,

Jon
As luck would have it - GJD
Just goes to show, it pays to be polite.


It does if you're lucky enough to be dealing with a human being. I doubt the average scamera would have taken so much notice of you attitude.
PS did anyone hear about the North Wales Police catching 12
of their own in a recent speeding clampdown.
Apparently the CC had just labelled speeders antisocial and dangerous law
breakers. It's good to see that Police officers are picked from
a good cross section of the public! (tounge in cheek)


CCs are political figures. They have to say things like that.
Enough of this \'PC\' claptrap - Rob the Bus {P}
This may be a little contentious, but I am sick of pussyfooting around to appease the PC brigade.

Yes, I love speed.

Yes, I love speeding.

Yes, I get a kick out of occasionally breaking the speed limit.

And, yes, I love occasionally love driving to the limit (the absolute limit)

It\'s about time we stopped messing about and realised that the PC brigade are stifling motoring as we know it.

(Ducks down behind the parapet and waits for the gunfire to stop....)

Cheers

Rob
Enough of this 'PC' claptrap - neil
Er... Rob!

Bearing in mind your recent Astra non-turbo diesel vs Golf non-turbo diesel postings, I assume you're going to 'the absolute limit' in your bus??! ;-) Agree with your PC Brigade remarks though - if we give them an inch they'll take every mile of pleasure!
Enough of this 'PC' claptrap - HF
s** it, let's all just speed then, shall we?

Oh I am being deliberately provocative there, of course. Regulars will know my views on speeding. Fun though, isn't it?!

As for the miles of pleasure, Neil, I would much prefer it if we could keep those private, if that is ok! ;)
Speeding - Group therapy please! - Trilly
A little story. Been driving 20+ years (is it really that long!) and for the first 5 years I will be the first to put my hands up and say my driving was pretty poor, I took too many risks and lost count of the number of times I was pulled up but never done and convicted. It took an off duty police officer in the traffic division, Sgt no less, in Sevenoaks to pull me up. Yes I was that bad he pulled me up off duty and it?s a long an amusing story but basically all he had was the reg of the car and after stopping me said who would be round to my house the next day at 0630 and he was. I spare you the detail as its interesting, only had the car 5 days, Citroen Dyane 600cc and overtaking 2 cars on a S bend! Anyway I was let off and we had a good chat after he told me the error of my ways.

I thought long and hard about my driving and thought I ought to do something and took up a ROSPA driving course never took the test as you agree in the test not to exceed the speed limit and I knew I would, all I wanted where better driving skills. So that?s was 18 years ago and since that course I have been pulled up once for a sharp turn when a passenger give me a late turn instruction. Now I do speed but in a 30 , 40 or 50 I do the limit. However on unrestricted roads and motorways I do speed not all the time but taking into account the conditions at the time. I am not saying its right or wrong only that after some good tuition by Police Class 1 drivers I am aware of dangers when driving.

However, just over 2 years ago got my first ever speeding ticket 94 M20, got SP60 3 points, ticket took 4 months to get to me, suppose I shouldn?t have paid but didn?t think I could get out of it. That was going to Bluewater and I was late, after 20 years of driving didn?t think that was too bad. So in July 0800 Sunday on M40 Beaconsfield 20th July (UK F1 GP day) get caught again nothing on the road doing 91 and nothing around me. But I am not p****d off because I was caught but somehow when I look back to my first incident a fixed penalty is not going to have the same effect as when I spoke to the Sgt.

That said I know my driving has got a bit lazy so I am getting back into some ROSPA sessions again because I know the value of them. As far as speeding goes I will get a GPS sensor to avoid the cameras and take a chance with the lasers, the sensor I am going for has the black spots and
Schools in it so you know when you are in danger zone.

The funny thing is that I have followed a few unmarked police cars in my day, I knew they were traffic and they were speeding, weren?t going anywhere particularly.

Moral of this tale, well from my point of view fixed penalties work to an extent but proper diver skills are key. On the whole I think the traffic police do a pretty good job and exercise good judgement in most cases. Just wish we had a more constructive approach to drivers who speed. Lastly I will do more ROSPA sessions and doubt I will do the test if they still want you to sign a bit that says you won?t exceed the speed limit, just appreciate the skills you pick up and recommend it to anyone.
Speeding - Group therapy please! - Trilly
Meant to say I don't speed in a 30, 40 or 50!
Speeding - Group therapy please! - John Shelton
In my county about 30% of all speeding offences are thrown away due to a number of reasons. career criminals are never caught. we have one who has clocked up 17 offences but cannot be found. Faulty equipment accounts for some losses and many many offences are ditched because they are "out of time" also a recent campaign by a local newspser got off about 2000 speeders in a local hotspotonly one in 5 sites are actualy loaded, the rest are just empty boxes, but cameras are quite regularly rotated, We have a governemt agreed target to get a set number of speeders every month and we dont want any more because the central government pockets and fine funds over that amount and also because there are not enough staff to process excessive amounts of fines, once the target is met any excess fines are simply thrown in the bin.
Speeding - Group therapy please! - GJD
Meant to say I don't speed in a 30, 40 or
50!


What, never ever ever ever ever ??

I hope you don't think this makes a more significant contribution to safety than maintaining your hazard perception and judgement skills.

GJD
Speeding - Group therapy please! - topaktas
Last Saturday afternoon, A14 westbound (dual carriageway), pottering along around 70, look in mirror, marked police car coming up very fast behind. He passes me at around 100, I guess -no blue lights or headlights. Out of interest, is a police car allowed to do this? I assume he wasn't on an emergency as he didn't have his lights on.
Speeding - Group therapy please! - pdc {P}
I've had cars speed up behind me on motorways around Manchester and get too close to for comfort. On getting the chance to pull over to let them pass I've seen, in small red lettering on the back of the car, the words "Police Driver Under Training".

I guess that they do have to train somewhere.
 

Value my car