My road is often full of parked cars so visibility to pull out of my driveway is somewhat compromised. This morning it was parked up to such an extent that I was completely unable to see down the road while I pulled out. I usually creep and peep until I can see down the road but by this point I am usually way into the middle of the road and there is only just enough room between the parked cars opposite and my bonnet for cars already on the road to get through the gap. This morning I was nearly winged by a moped as he was following a van which I could just about see over the estate car, transit and other van that had stuck themselves on the road. I couldn't see a thing until I my bonnet was almost level with the white line.
Now if someone hit me while I was pulling out would the owners of the parked vehicles that were totally obscuring my vision be partly responsible a) morally and b) legally? Is there any way of pulling out in this situation which is safer to do than the creep and peep? Alternatively would it be possible to use these dangerousness of this to persuade the council to paint double yellow lines so no vehicles can park within a certain distance so I can see them and they can see me before I present a danger to them?
If the boot is on the other foot when I drive down a road and there are parked cars and I can see driveways then I am extra careful as there could be a car waiting to pull out that I can't see that can't see me. I am not sure that others are so careful.
What do other backroomers think?
teabelly
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IMHO the random roadside parking of vehicles is absolutely appalling, and like many things in our now seriously blighted country, has got totally out of control. !!! I personally agree with your suggestion to paint double yellow lines and force people to park off road, but because this will force many people out of their cars and the government will lose too many millions in lost taxation, this will never happen. I know in many instances in urban areas, parking space is at an utmost premium, and off road parking is out of the question, but I feel that where motorists have front garden space that could be utilised, goverment should offer grants to assist in getting these vehicles off the public highway !! Rant over !!!!
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If the cars obstructing your view were legally parked (ie: not obstructing access or subject to parking restrictions indicated by single or double yellows), they bear no responsibility at all, moral or otherwise, for any potential accident. The onus is on you to proceed with extreme caution if visibility is restricted to this extent - annoying, I know, but...
Parking around my office is a classic example - large building, built late sixties, totally inadequate car-parking reflecting the commuting patterns of the age, leading to increasing pressure on the nearby housing estate. I do feel sorry for those householders who don't have off-road parking, and are forced to compete for road space, but not to the extent of giving up the comfort and convenience of my car!
Many of the residents seem to believe erroneously that they have title to the piece of public highway in the vicinity of their property, and (naturally) become argumentative when corrected.
In an effort to ameliorate the problem slightly, the council has recently laid down yellow lines in sensible places - to stop parking around bends and the like - so they do listen if the residents shout loud enough. On the other hand, if clear visibility from every driveway was a criteria for yellow-line painting, there would be little or no off-road parking left in many urban streets!
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Even if the cars were parked illegally, you would still bear responsibility if you pulled out in front of something and caused an accident.
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I have exactly the same problem in my road, teabelly.
One thing that annoys me in particular is that there are several junctions in the road, and many people park right up next to the junctions so that visibility is almost zero.
Isn't there a certain distance which must be left free when parking near a junction? And would those parking too close be considered to be parking illegally?
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Permission to join your Club Teabelly of which it seems HF is also a member.Have the same problem trying to get out of DVD Towers onto the main road due to parked vehicles. Below is some notes I have made to approach L.A. to provide passing places and clear junctions.
No person in charge of a motor vehicle shall cause or permit the vehicle to stand on a road so as to cause any unnecessary obstruction.
(Regulation 103, Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986). The punishment for this offence being £1000.
(Section 42, Road Traffic Act, 1988 and Schedule 2, Road Traffic Offenders Act, 1988.)
Obstruction can be caused by actual physical obstruction of an essential line of traffic, e.g. taking up half of a busy road, so that single line working has to be employed. While there must be proof of unreasonable use, whether or not use amounting to an obstruction was or was not unreasonable use is a question of fact, depending on all the circumstances, INCLUDING THE LENGTH OF TIME the obstruction continued, the place where it occurred, the purpose for which it was done and whether it caused an actual as opposed to a potential obstruction. Or, it may be the unreasonable use of the right of stopping even though there is plenty of room for others to pass.
In Soloman v Durbridge (1956) it was held that a motor vehicle left on a road for an unreasonable time (5 hours) might be unreasonable obstruction. Further, in Gill v Carson (1917) and Nelmes v Rhys Howells Transport Ltd (1977) ? an important consideration is the purpose for which the road was being used by the vehicle causing the obstruction. The highway provides a means of transit and is not intended as a store.
HF mentions not to park within so many feet of a junction. All that is mentioned on this point is that an exemption from displaying parking lights on vehicles in a BUA only applies if no part of the vehicle is within 15 feet of a junction.
But parking right on a junction totally blocking a view may depending on the circumstances may be construed as causing or permitting a vehicle to remain at rest in such a position or in such circumstances as to involve a danger of injury to other persons using the road. (Section 22 Road Traffic Act, 1988)
As Mark states it is incumbent on the driver joining the main road containing parked vehicles to exercise care; in hitting a vehicle on the road he can be held responsible. O?Connel v Fraser 1963 ? High Court reluctantly upheld a conviction of a driver who edged from a park onto a road when his view of it was obstructed by parked vehicles.
Hell of a lot of law on the subject but I would submit that the sheer scale of the problem due to the number of vehicles that require ?resting places? is such that it is virtually impossible to enforce in parts.
DVD
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DVD - I would guess that "obstruction" laws are kept on statute for use in "convenient" cases. Highways were designed originally for the passage of vehicles and the scale of the parking/storing problem was never anticipated. Removal of the laws would mean a total free for all. There must be very few streets now where there is any sufficient off-road parking.
In my street, most people have double garages and drives long enough for 3 or 4 cars. The garages are never used. Most families now have 4 cars or more (at least 2 for mum/dad, plus 1 each for the 2 or 3 teenagers), and end up parking at least 2 cars on the road.
Unfortunately, as you confirm, illegally parked cars (1st party) are not held liable for resulting accidents between 2nd and 3rd or other parties.
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Thanks for posting that information, DVD. Interesting, and it appears I have been labouring under a misapprehension all these years.
Still, as always, there is no black and white here, and I guess the grey areas are open to different interpretations according to circumstances.
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DVD has stated the legal pos'n fairly clearly.
Turning to practical issues any chance to get the council to allow installation of mirror(s) opposite your driveway?
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FiF
IIRC your suggestion would not be looked upon with kindness.
The concave ones distort and the flat ones get mucky from passing tractors.
Sub-mariners had the answer - up periscope.
DVD
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>>I usually creep and peep until I can see down the road but by this point I What do other backroomers think? teabelly
There is a narrow road with blind bends that I drive down now and again. The solution I employ there is drive very slowly, and to keep my hazard flashers on, keep flashing my full-beam, and occassionally tooting as well. The combination of the visual and audio warnings usually tells traffic on the blind side that I am approaching.
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Using hazards and headlights wouldn't help much apart from during hours of darkness when pulling out is easier. I am sure if I used my horn whenever exiting my drive way with people parked in the way the neighbours would complain about the noise!
Some of the cars also park partly on the pavement which I find even more annoying as there is a bloke further up the road with a wheel chair who sometimes can't get passed very easily when they do this. There are usually plenty of vehicles parked right up close to junctions. There is one nearby which has been the scene of numerous accidents because of the lack of visibility.
I could be more proactive and insist that the persons parking in the way either move their vehicle or stand in the middle of the road and stop the traffic so I can pull out safely. I am not sure how successful this direct approach would be though. The mirror idea is a good one as there aren't any vehicles that use the road that kick up muck. It would also be a good idea to put one on the nearby junction so that people can see there is someone waiting to turn out and pullers out can see there is car coming along the road obscured by the parked cars.
I am sure I read in Roadcraft about joint accident responsibility when someone parked near a junction. I can't find my copy but does anyone else remember reading the same thing? I don't remember whether it said they were responsible or that they should be responsible (but weren't in law).
teabelly
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Using hazards and headlights wouldn't help much apart from during hours of darkness when pulling out is easier. >>
teabelly: its your choice, although I would disagree. Personally, I would ask "what is the harm in trying?"
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Well, Rule 217 of HC does, as this thread suggests, get widely flouted/ignored.
BUT the idea of
"I could be more proactive and insist that the persons parking in the way move their vehicle"
opens a whole new can of worms.
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teabelly -
"I am sure I read in Roadcraft about joint accident responsibility when someone parked near a junction."
-nope.
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I wonder what would be the final effect on the pattern of road transport, congestion, and parking, if all householders were given the exclusive rights to the space in front of their properties, and free to rent it out?
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Oh to live in Japan, where I believe that before buying a vehicle a prospective owner has to show he has parking space for it. How would that go down here?
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In switzerland you have to have proof of off road parking before you can buy a car.
I suspect the idea would go down like a lead balloon here!
Having rights to park outside your own property could be a way forward providing that there is enough room to allow one large vehicle passed at any time. Some streets are too narrow to allow each householder a parking space. There is also the problem of house width as some terraces are very narrow and it wouldn't be physically possible to get a car into the gap when the rest of the street was parked up. Single person households with one smart wouldn't have a problem but families might struggle.Perhaps vehicles with 4 wheel steering that move crab style out of a space would suddenly become the must have for town living?
I would be very happy with 'rights to park outside your own house' idea as I could rent out my 2 spaces for weekdays as there is a dentist's surgery, a printers and a building society with 30 seconds walk who might compete for customer parking :-)
teabelly
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its all veryy well suggesting yellow lines etc but restricted parking(or none more so) could well affect the value or saleability of the property.that would surely be a bad thing.not only that but those who are unable to park off road have to move elsewhere causing more problems.o for those blissfull black and white photo days of empty streets.......
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