Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - OceanMan

I just bought a pair of stick on blindspot mirrors for my car which made me wonder why anyone needs to. Some cars have wing mirrors with no blind spots and considering that they can be eliminated with a pair of £5 stick ons, and that blindspot accidents happen all the time, why aren't all cars legally required to have mirrors that eliminate blindspots?

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

I remember wing mirrors- they disappeared in the 1960s iirc. Traffic density was a lot lower and they were a pita to adjust correctly and were vulnerable to disturbance, by washing and little boys. They did cover a wide angle but the images were small.

I fitted a door mounted mirror to two Minis. Much easier to adjust, albeit with a narrower field of view. Standard door mounted mirrors, especially electrically powered ones are pretty good nowadays. I'd a VW with a convex section on the outer edge. Yes , it gave a wider field of view but imho the smaller image confused the brain into thinking the vehicle was further away.I think that is a real problem.

An American hire car had words to the effect that vehicles were closer than they appeared to be.

I look over my shoulder if I am in any doubt, especially when joining a motorway or changing lanes. I have been caught out once with a vehicle going at the same speed as me and not easily visible.

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - focussed

It's almost impossible to eliminate all rear quarter blindspots on any car - mirrors can help but try having a person walk around your car while you scan the mirrors and you will see what I mean. The killer blindspot for cyclists,motorcyclists and pedestrians is the one that mirrors can't help with - the A-pillar blindspot - moving your head is the only safe way to see around it.

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - FP

Though my driver's side door mirror is wide-angle I don't rely on it when changing lanes/overtaking. I always look over my shoulder first and I think everyone should do likewise.

Edited by FP on 16/06/2019 at 11:20

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - Bromptonaut

I agree mirrors vary enormously. Both Berlingos we've owned has superb mirrors like picture windows no doubt reflecting the panel van versions with much more limited external view. Those on my Xantia were rather small and I've driven odd hire or courtesy car where they really do seem to be a triumph of design over function.

They are though there to augment, not replace looking. I was taught the sequence mirror, shoulder, indicate to be followed by mirror, shoulder manoeuvre. I'm particularly careful of clearing my (UK) nearside blind spot before returning to 'slow' lane or moving out to overtake on French motorways.

Om most recent cars I've found that adjusting the mirror so a can see just a tiny bit of the car on either side comes close to elimination blind spots. I check them at home from time to time using bits of the house and stuff around it as references to judge any over the shoulder blind spots as best I can.

There's no substitute for the 'fighter pilot' technique though - head and eyes constantly moving in a scan of near to distant and back again via instruments. Less need to focus on overhead though - not likely to be jumped by a Staffel of Messerchmits on the M6...

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - oldroverboy.

I agree mirrors vary . Less need to focus on overhead though - not likely to be jumped by a Staffel of Messerchmits on the M6...

Although the engines are the same.... Daimler Benz....

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - gordonbennet

Some cars do have decent large rectangular mirrors that have eliminated virtually all possible blind spots, usually on the more dual purpose types, unfortunately form over function dictates many others are not fit for purpose.

The other issue is how many people have the foggiest idea how to set their mirrors properly, and how many can be bothered to keep them or the windows inside or out clean, we have people who drive off on frosty morns with a partial cleared port hole to peer through the windscreen, how likely are they to be bothered about any of the above....horses lead water drink etc

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - Bilboman

One technique I read about years ago in an American driving manual was to adjust the side/door mirrors so that the image in the door mirrors began where the image in the central rear view mirror ended - in other words, there would be no image of the edge of the car's body in either side mirror. It was a weird experience and I always found myself tweaking them back so that I could see the side of my car.
Constant scanning of the road fore and aft is, of course, the key, and slight movements of the head and neck, plus the over-the-shoulder "lifesaver" glance espoused by bikers, help to eliminate nearly all blind spots. Having said that, some drivers have such poor observation skills and deeply embedded tunnel vision that they wouldn't notice a pair of aardvarks mating in the middle of the bonnet.

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - Chris M

One of the biggest blind spots for me is the rear view mirror. Being 6'2" the mirror is in my eye line rather than me having to look up like shorties have to. I've learnt to look around the mirror at junctions as it can easily obscure a car let alone a cyclist.

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - gordonbennet

One of the biggest blind spots for me is the rear view mirror. Being 6'2" the mirror is in my eye line rather than me having to look up like shorties have to. I've learnt to look around the mirror at junctions as it can easily obscure a car let alone a cyclist.

I recall noticing this started when Vauxhall replaced Carlton with Omega, Carlton still had reasonably upright screen with normal sized mirror fitted high up, possibly in a roof mount, Omega gained a huge stupidly oversized interior mirror which obliterated a good portion of the top half of the screen, others followed suit, indeed suddenly we seemed to start producing cars with next to no all round vision, back windows became port holes around the same time.

Surprisingly this interior mirror thing is an issue in my wife's Forester for me (though the door mirrors are Berlingo standard brilliant), happily not in my Toyota 4x4 which has a much higher roof line so the interior mirror is set sensibly.

The best mirrors in the world are useless if the bod behind the wheel hasn't a clue what they are doing..witness the Corsa with the smashed in bumper grill and bonnet pulling straight out from the hard shoulder into the path of the lorry in front of me on Friday, lorry luckily had room to take the middle lane avoidance route, Corsa carried on at some 40 mph for a while, until i got 2/3rds past him when he suddenly found the accelerator and underook merrily on his way, and i suspect will be wondering why the back of his car will no doubt have similar damage to the front in due course, clueless, wouldn't have the foggiest idea of what this thread is about.

Edited by gordonbennet on 16/06/2019 at 15:11

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - Chris M

For me, it's not just the size of the mirror but the current fashion to black out the area behind the mirror, even when the car doesn't have the host of sensors for auto this and that. In the past I've been able to look over the mirror. Not now :(

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - Bolt

For me, it's not just the size of the mirror but the current fashion to black out the area behind the mirror, even when the car doesn't have the host of sensors for auto this and that. In the past I've been able to look over the mirror. Not now :(

I doubt mirrors will last much longer as ideas seem to be going toward wide angle cameras all round, more can be seen on a screen than any mirror, but could also work out cheaper for the OEMs and are less prone to being clobbered

be interesting to see how that one pans out (I know, another thing to go wrong electronically);)

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - Bilboman

The "blacking out" of the area behind the mirror is often a series of black dots, whose reason is to allow radio signals to pass through the otherwise "impenetrable" metal film in one of the windscreen's many layers.. I have a toolbooth transponder in my car in Spain and the car manual actually points out that it needs to be placed in this "blackened" area otherwise the toll barrier won't open as the signal doesnt' get through. (The heat refelcting windscreen doesn't half play havoc with my satnav as well!)

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - Andrew-T

.... there would be no image of the edge of the car's body in either side mirror. It was a weird experience and I always found myself tweaking them back so that I could see the side of my car.

The side of the car needs to appear in the edge of one's view so that the picture can be accurately 'placed'. The limiting factor is the angle of view the mirror provides from your viewing position. The discussion so far has been mostly about seeing overtaking vehicles, but I use mirrors just as much for reversing into spaces, having no all-seeing cameras (which are another gizmo intended to offset stylists' obsession with reducing outward visibility).

Steerable mirrors are a useful device. Our exit onto a busy main road can become almost impossible when vans are parked on the pavement blocking the view rightwards. At least the nearside mirror can be turned outwards to see to the left, and put back afterwards.

Edited by Andrew-T on 17/06/2019 at 10:14

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - gordonbennet

Indeed Andrew-T, mirrors should be set so you can see the edge of the car and if possible (some expensive cars auto lower the mirrors when reverse is selected, that really is useful) so you can see the rear wheels when reversing, some cars the mirrors are so hopelessly placed and shaped for this, Insignia i'm looking at you here, they are no more use than a handbag size make up mirror sellotaped to the door fame.

People in all sorts of vehicles have mirrors set too high, as above no warplane stuck in a time warp is coming for you, mirrors help you position yourself on the road too.

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - Penumbra

Tried out Brothers new Mazda 6 yesterday. The interior mirror is quite big but housing around it is simply enormous, and I had to really look around it to drive.

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - pyruse

I find many people set the wing mirrors so they can see the side of the car; if you do that, in most cars you'll have a blind spot just over your shoulder.

If you set the wing mirrors so they are pointing further out, then a car coming up in an adjacent lane moves from rear view to wing mirror to the corner of your eye with no blind spot.

You can still see the side of your car when reversing by moving your head.

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - Andrew-T

If you set the wing mirrors so they are pointing further out, then a car coming up in an adjacent lane moves from rear view to wing mirror to the corner of your eye with no blind spot.

One advantage to keeping the side of the car visible is to be sure that the mirror has not been nudged or adjusted accidentally. Each to his own I suppose.

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - pyruse

If you set the wing mirrors so they are pointing further out, then a car coming up in an adjacent lane moves from rear view to wing mirror to the corner of your eye with no blind spot.

One advantage to keeping the side of the car visible is to be sure that the mirror has not been nudged or adjusted accidentally. Each to his own I suppose.

If I can see the side of the car without moving my head, I know the mirror has been nudged or adjusted!

I can to see the side of the car if I move my head to the right (for the RH mirror) or the left (for the LH one).

Surely not having blind spots is much more important than being able to see the side of the car, but as you say, each to their own

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - NARU

...Some cars have wing mirrors with no blind spots ...

In my experience, wing mirrors had huge blind spots. I much prefer the door mirrors that we have now.

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - Brit_in_Germany

I find it somewhat strange that comments here suggest the term "wing mirror" should only apply to mirrors fixed to the wing but are quite happy to use other anachronistic terms such as "boot", "bumper" or "dashboard".

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

I'm old enough to remember wing mirrors and to know mirrors fixed elsewhere are different and not to be confused.

Dash panel, fascia, dashboard , oil pan, sump, hood, bonnet, trunk, wings, fenders, bumpers, windscreen,windshield etc. Are all from various traditions.

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - badbusdriver

A wing mirror, as its name implies, is attatched to the wing. A door mirror is attatched to the door. Not sure what your point is?. And in fact, seeing as plenty of Japanese domestic market cars still have wing mounted mirrors, and plenty of said cars have been imported into this country, it is a relevant distinction.

What terms should we be using instead of boot, bumper or dashboard?

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - Brit_in_Germany

Your hypothesis that wing mirrors must be mounted on the wing is not supported by the general understanding, I would suggest. For example, an internet search of "wing mirror" will generate countless images of door-mounted mirrors but not a single one mounted on a wing.

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - FP

'...quite happy to use other anachronistic terms such as "boot", "bumper" or "dashboard".'

What have these terms been replaced with? The Americanisms "trunk", "fender" - and I can't think what dashboard would be? Fascia? Surely not. I never come across these.

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - badbusdriver

Your hypothesis that wing mirrors must be mounted on the wing is not supported by the general understanding, I would suggest. For example, an internet search of "wing mirror" will generate countless images of door-mounted mirrors but not a single one mounted on a wing.

Hardly a hypothesis!, there are mirrors mounted on the wing, and there are mirrors mounted on the door. These give different fields of vision, and i'd rather be clear on exactly what is being referred to.

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - OceanMan

I've always known them as wing mirrors. Just thought it was a generic phrase. There are lots of misnomers in the language, eg people say Tannoy as a generic phrase for a public announcement system, even though Tannoy is a brand.

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - Bolt

I've always known them as wing mirrors. Just thought it was a generic phrase. There are lots of misnomers in the language, eg people say Tannoy as a generic phrase for a public announcement system, even though Tannoy is a brand.

They were always called wing mirrors when I started my apprenticeship until door mirrors were fitted, then called door mirrors, door mirrors are a vast improvement and should have been fitted years earlier imo... even though they weren't all perfect

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - badbusdriver

I've always known them as wing mirrors. Just thought it was a generic phrase. There are lots of misnomers in the language, eg people say Tannoy as a generic phrase for a public announcement system, even though Tannoy is a brand.

They were always called wing mirrors when I started my apprenticeship until door mirrors were fitted, then called door mirrors, door mirrors are a vast improvement and should have been fitted years earlier imo... even though they weren't all perfect

I can only recall them being referred to as door mirrors myself (of course my memory can play tricks on me these days!). But it is possible that working in the motor trade, they were pointedly referred to as such in order to make the distinction between mirrors mounted on the door and those on the wing for clarity regarding repairs, parts being ordered etc?.

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - Bolt

I've always known them as wing mirrors. Just thought it was a generic phrase. There are lots of misnomers in the language, eg people say Tannoy as a generic phrase for a public announcement system, even though Tannoy is a brand.

They were always called wing mirrors when I started my apprenticeship until door mirrors were fitted, then called door mirrors, door mirrors are a vast improvement and should have been fitted years earlier imo... even though they weren't all perfect

I can only recall them being referred to as door mirrors myself (of course my memory can play tricks on me these days!). But it is possible that working in the motor trade, they were pointedly referred to as such in order to make the distinction between mirrors mounted on the door and those on the wing for clarity regarding repairs, parts being ordered etc?.

I used to fit wing mirrors in the 70s, some owners only wanted drivers side fitted, some with more money to spend wanted both sides fitted to front wings.

had to be very careful as well in case the pilot drill slipped on the paintwork, which on rare occasions did happen, pilot drill was used to insert main steel cutter that made the hole for mirror bolt to go through and as they were never painted after the hole was made usually where the rust started.

then, Forget the year?, but door mirrors came in very good idea and less trouble apart from being easily clobbered

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - RichT54

My C-HR has a blind spot monitoring system which displays an orange symbol on the door mirror if the radar detects a vehicle in a potential blind spot. It works quite well, but is not infallible. I was recently on the Farnham road out of Guildford where it becomes the right hand lane of the A31 on the Hog's Back. Before attempting to move into the nearside lane, I checked the interior and left mirrors and they were clear and there was no orange light. However, I always look over my shoulder and just managed to spot a dark coloured Range Rover coming past me at speed in the inside lane.

Why are mirrors with blindspots even legal? - Glaikit Wee Scunner {P}

SWMBO new Kia Picanto3 seems to have a marked convex section on the outermost edge of the drivers mirror. But both the door mirrors are great and the view all round is fine, being such a short car. No blind spots noticed, but I was being extra careful with the first motorway run on the smart M1 in South Yorkshire. This is up to 6 lanes wide and good mirrors are essential.

I remember the days of Practical Motorist tips for drilling wings-cringes.