Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - Rob the Bus
I know that the BR is full of people asking advice on which cars to buy, and I'm as guilty as the next man (or indeed woman).

But my brother is seriously thinking about a 00 'W' Peugeot 406 2.0HDi Rapier. It's got 45k on it and the garage wants £7k for it.

Apart from the usual 'did it used to be a taxi' etc checks, is there anything that he should be wary of? I've checked in the C-B-C breakdown and it's the 2.1td that seems to be problematic. Any of you BRers have any experience (good or bad) of these motors?

Many thanks for your help.
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - PhilW
All I can contribute is that the HDi (110) engine in our W reg Xantia is a gem. Smooth, quiet, economical (50 mpg), plenty of power and torque for a family car. And no probs (so far) in 62k miles. Obviously it doesn't compare to a V12 Ferrari though!
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - DavidHM
£7k isn't cheap for a 3-year-old 406 by any means. Even with the diesel engine and the low mileage (15k is above average, but not for a new diesel!)

I personally wouldn't go above £6k. That might not get you this car anywhere, but apparently these engines don't take really big mileages that well.

Personally I'd be inclined to spend a bit more on a newer car and keep it longer, especially if he's doing finance. Motorpoint has a petrol 1.8 with 15k on it, 51 plate, for the same money.
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - Dave_TD
but apparently these engines don't take really
big mileages that well.


I've heard the same, lots of new engine warranty claims at c. 100k miles. Obviously with fsh, to validate the warranty.
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - Vansboy
Doesn't the Rapier give a reasonable trim level, but the lower, less attractive, power engine output?
If you're OK with this sort of mileage, check out Peugeot contract/lease sales at British Car Auctions.Should find a similar car & save £££££
AND, as mentioned, does he REALLY need diesel & it's higher initial purchase cost?
VB
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - DavidHM
The Rapier is an LX with a different badge and a list price lower by about £1000, available with the 1.8 petrol and 90 bhp diesel engines. It was designed to appeal more to private buyers than fleets, although I'm sure there were plenty of leased ones - it's just that the LXs could be sold to fleets with suitably massive discounts to make the Rapier fairly pointless for them except maybe for benefit-in-kind purposes.
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - Rob the Bus
Thanks for all your advice so far folks. He's looking for a diesel as he does a 100-mile a day round trip commute.
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - DavidHM
www.allapprovedcars.com/idx/CarId/974984/CarDetail...x

I don\'t know if his budget will stretch to £9000 for a car nearly two years newer, but this sounds like a job for an Octavia.

If performance doesn\'t matter, an SDi with free insurance is only £9389 new.

Or, if size doesn\'t matter so much, why not look at a brand new C3 for about £9000 with a 16v engine, or if his insurance is expensive, a 70bhp C3 Desire for £8700 with a year\'s free insurance.

Take into account the insurance and the better fuel economy of the C3 and he\'ll get more than the difference in price back, even if the 406 is as reliable as a new car. I\'m sure the resale value will be significantly better on the C3 too.
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - DavidHM
I forgot that pesky space: tinyurl.com/8x98
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - Reggie
I'm intrigued to know what goes wrong with these engines at about 100K, especially as the XUDs were so reliable. Can anybody enlighten me.
Reggie
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - roscopervis
IMO the 2.1 td engine is a great engine but is hard to work on and can be expensive to maintain as it has high labour times. A better bet is the HDi 110. The 2.1 td has an indredible surge of torque and power when the turbo kicks in, the HDi is smoother in its delivery.
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - RichardW
Something not quite clear here...

You say it's a 406 HDI, but then go on to say it's got the 2.1td? These are two different engines...

The 2.1 is the old indirect injection XUD unit with a 12v head and electronic control of the injection. Puts out 110 BHP, not many were built, they're quite thirsty, and it is generally thought to be a nightmare to work on.

The HDi is the new generation direct injection engine, with full ECU control, putting out either 90 or 110 BHP (Look for the intercooler on the higher output engine). Very smooth and refined, and economical, but as DTD says some hints of problems at higher mileages on early units.

Richard
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - Reggie
Richard, Roscopervis refered to the 2.1td in the post before yours, whereas RobtheBus in the original post refered to the 2.0 HDI.

My 406 2.1td does 38 to 47 mpg. Thirsty by common rail technology standards but not as bad as a similar sized petrol car! Also a brilliant towcar.

So what is "hints of problems" in reference to the HDI engines (PSA). Can you be more specific? I would be very interested to know as I may be buying one in the future.
Reggie
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - RichardW
No, read Rob's original post, he says 2.0 HDI then later 2.1 td...

DTD says some of his friends have had to have replacement engines at around 100k, and I think he has mentioned this before, but I don't recall any specifics being mentioned. There is also something in HJ's Car by car about early failure of the clutches. I would expect however, that as long as you avoid anything built in the first couple of years (ie before 2000) these problems will quietly have been taken care of.

Richard
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - Reggie
Whoops. Sorry about that Richard. He does refer to the 2.1td doesn't he. I think though that it is in a ...he's buying the 2.0HDI but it is the 2.1td that is problematic.....I think.
Thanks for the HDI info, the "clutches" from DTD does ring a bell now you mention it.
Reggie
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - Rob the Bus
Thanks for all your advice guys.

He's ended up buying it for £7k with 6 months tax.

May sound too much on the face of it, but the dealer's given him £4k for his 2001 'Y' imported Laguna with high miles and very little documented service history. In my brother's words:
"I'm going to drive the Pug away very quickly before he realises what he's done!"

Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - DavidHM
A 2-year-old Laguna? Is it an early new shape or a late old shape? How high is the mileage? If he does 30k per year in it, it would be worth very close to £7k trade as a UK car with service history, and probably £5500 anyway. (How bad is the car he's trading in?)
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - Rob the Bus
David - it's late old shape. I think that the mileage is approaching 60k. He's not been offered anywhere near the £7k you're mentioning. FWIW, it's the 1.6 16v Sport.

The chap at the Pug main dealer showed him the CAP guide to back up his offer of £2800. It seems that once a dealer finds out that it's an import with high miles and dodgy service history they don't want to know. I actually sought HJ's advice about buying the car myself and he told me to avoid at all costs. That perhaps explains the dealer's reluctance to give anywhere near trade value.

I'm not well up on the in and outs of the trade. Perhaps there's a few dealers out there (maybe even HJ himself!) who could give their opinion. Not that there's much point - the deal's done and dusted!
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - DavidHM
£4k is not bad money at all for a 1.6 old shape, especially without the history. £6500 would be a fair offer for a new shape diesel of the same mileage. That Laguna will retail easily for £4995 though, even at that mileage. Not everyone asks about history, either. £2800 is very, very low for a two year old car... Of course, part of that is reflected in the way that a main dealer wouldn't be able to retail it himself, whereas this bloke with the Peugeot will probably get all the profit margin.

I'd be interested to know why HJ said to avoid at all costs. I mean, if there's missing history, does that mean it's been abused and neglected, or just that the work hasn't been recorded? Still, the deal is done now, although I'm not sure I'd have bothered myself.
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - Rob the Bus
>>I'd be interested to know why HJ said to avoid at all costs.

As far as I can remember, HJ didn't actually say why. He just advised me to avoid. I know that he's not very complimentary about them in the C-B-C breakdown.

Thanks, all, for your help and advice. I'll see what his Pug's like on Sunday when he comes over.
Is my brother about to buy a lemon? - DieselBoy
One thing also to remember is that Rob the Bus said the Laguna was an import - something else that would bring down the part-ex offer. I personally think £4000 is an outstanding offer for a 60k imported, underpowered 1.6 with missing service history.
 

Value my car