VIP Car Sales (Knutsford) - Laura C

I contacted Richard Gleaves in May to sell my 2015 plate BMW on my behalf, also known as a car consignment sale.

After months of reducing the price, the car finally sold on 24th October. After numerous failed bank transfers and bounced cheques, I have no car, no log book and no payment. Richard no longer takes my phone calls and has left me with no other choice than to have my solicitor take over matters. (Potentially offensive parts of this post deleted)

Edited by Avant on 01/02/2017 at 14:19

VIP Car Sales (Knutsford) - RobJP

Please READ this :

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=97321

It's almost certain that your post will be culled or heavily modified.

If you have an issue with somewhere, then I suggest you take court action against them. If the person controlling a company has acted fraudulently or caused the company to act fraudulently, then there is nothing in law stopping you from taking action against them personally - company law does not protect them in such cases, and they will be found personally liable in a courtroom.

Finally, you state that problems with the garage are "all over the net if you need further confirmation".

If the problems are so obvious, then why didn't you do 5 minutes of research BEFORE using them.

VIP Car Sales (Knutsford) - Avant

Many thanks Rob.

I sent an Email to this lady suggesting that she needs to go to the police and/or Trading Standards with this grievance, and explaining why you can't accuse someone of fraud in a public forum and why I deleted her previous post.

She ignores me and re-posts, using the words 'well oiled scam' instead of fraud'. (Whether oiled or not, someone find me a scam that isn't a fraud! These words now deleted.)

In general, complaining about individuals on a public forum is largely ineffective as well as potentially offensive. This one, for instance, is only of interest to someone (a) looking at this forum, (b) living in or near Cheshire and (c) happening to be thinking of buying a used car. Narrows it down a bit!

Edited by Avant on 01/02/2017 at 14:19

VIP Car Sales (Knutsford) - RaineMan

To be honest the issue of VIP Car Sales (Knutsford) is getting quite boring. From Hertfordshire I cannot judge them. There are less than honest car dealers everywhere. But this can even vary with the car they are selling. I was very happy with a car I brought at a local dealer but it was stolen and written off after three years. When I went back the same person tried to sell me a lemon (not the fruit). Also when I was looking for a car late last summer I walked away when a dealer started getting aggressive when I queried the service history. Looking at reviews on the net the majority of buyers are happy with the dealer but there are a number who are not. There was also a comment that he allegedly ejected a customer who came back to complain about the car he had been sold. Buyer beware!

VIP Car Sales (Knutsford) - justin helper

Post deleted. Please see the comments in my post above as to why it was inappropriate on a public forum.

Avant (moderator)

Edited by Avant on 06/08/2017 at 02:12

VIP Car Sales (Knutsford) - focussed

. "If the person controlling a company has acted fraudulently or caused the company to act fraudulently, then there is nothing in law stopping you from taking action against them personally - company law does not protect them in such cases, and they will be found personally liable in a courtroom."

Richard Gleave is not and never has been a director of VIP car sales.

There is a Rachel Gleave registered as a director of four companies. one of which is VIP Car Sales (knutsford) Ltd

As Richard Gleave was presumably an employee of the aforementioned company, and was alleged to have carried out the fraud as detailed, any court action would have to be against the company.

The company is in liquidation - so the best of luck with any court action.

VIP Car Sales (Knutsford) - RobJP

Being a Director - or not - is irrelevant though. If a person is a Director or ACTING as a Director (which is known as being a shadow Director), then they are just as liable in law personally. The law specifically allows for this, as it was recognised that people disqualified from being Directors could just act in the background otherwise.

Mr Gleave could claim to be an employee for all he wanted. But if a court found that he executed a controlling interest or made major decisions, then his 'official' status would be irrelevant.

VIP Car Sales (Knutsford) - focussed

But it has to be proved that Richard Gleave was a "shadow director"

Mere allegations or suspicions are not enough - and english law on this is far from clear as you probably know.

Interestingly - Mr G is registered as a director of another car sales company - Mere Car Sales Limited - but only since March of this year!

VIP Car Sales (Knutsford) - Avant

Just in case anyone is interested, here's an extract from a book I wrote recently on company law, about shadow directors. Focussed is right - there would need to be some evidence of the 'directions or instructions'.

Section 251 Companies Act 2006 defines a shadow director as ‘a person in accordance with whose directions or instructions the directors of the company are accustomed to act.’ There may be political or other reasons why, for example, a major shareholder or lender does not want to be visibly on the board, but that person might still effectively control the company by virtue of the actual directors doing as they are instructed.

Decisions in court cases can often help to interpret statute. In Secretary of State for Trade and Industry v Deverell (2001) the Court of Appeal decided that the definition of ‘shadow director’ included anyone, other than professional advisers of the company, with real influence in the affairs of the company.

In Vivendi v Richards (2013) the High Court held that a shadow director will typically owe fiduciary duties in relation at least to the directions or instructions that he gives to the de jure directors. More particularly, the court held that a shadow director will normally owe a duty of good faith (or loyalty) when giving such directions or instructions.

Thus major shareholders or creditors who become closely involved in board decision-making run the risk of being deemed to be shadow directors.

This position is usually created by circumstance rather than by any specific appointment – indeed it is difficult to see why a shadow director would be deliberately appointed. In most cases, companies should try to avoid effective power moving from the directors to someone not on the board; it may happen, for example, as a result of an individual rescuing a company from financial problems by acquiring a controlling shareholding, or lending the company an amount in excess of its share capital.

VIP Car Sales (Knutsford) - Brit_in_Germany

Interestingly - Mr G is registered as a director of another car sales company - Mere Car Sales Limited - but only since March of this year!

While Rachel Gleave is a director of Mere Classic Car Sales ltd. which used to be called VIP Car Finance ltd.

Oh what a tangled web we weave.

VIP Car Sales (Knutsford) - scot22

Avant I have personal involvement in a Company. Can you tell us the title of your book ? A search for author Avant on Amazon is unlikely to be successful.

L

VIP Car Sales (Knutsford) - Avant

I'll Email you, Scot.

VIP Car Sales (Knutsford) - scot22

Thanks a lot. I realised later that giving that information on an open forum had risks.