Fewer 'glass palaces'? - daveyjp

Two main dealers in Bradford - Mercedes and Audi - have recently closed (as well as smaller family owned main dealerships) and whilst in Wakefield at the weekend I noticed a couple of empty main dealer car showrooms. Some reasons I thought why this may be the case,

Glass palaces too expensive to run.

New cars sales dominated by very large groups. Stratstone (Pendragon group) and Sytner in case of Merc and Audi above.

Change in buying habits and shopping online for best deals.

Buyers aren't buying the affected brands.

Buyers are willing to travel further to buy vehicles and have them serviced.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Orb>>.

Glass palaces too expensive to run.

The investment constantly demanded by manufacturers from smaller dealers is huge. Our local MG dealer who is doing very well was told it would cost an extra £60.000 to be a cyberstar dealer and he had to take 2 as a minimum. Politely declined.

New cars sales dominated by very large groups.

Oorrect, see above reply...

I for one am used to travelling to get the best deal for me and there are some brands i won't buy, as well as Essex is not the cheapest option for what i buy, new or pr-reg.

Just one example

Omoda 5 Bury sy edmunds £22490

York £19985

Plenty of other makes available.

Edited by Orb>>. on 17/12/2024 at 19:55

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Will deBeast

Local Toyota dealer seems to have about 10 sales/accounts staff. That's a lot of cost. Especially as they seem to hide in the office rather than serve customers.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - mcb100
Strange times ahead for dealers.
Traditionally, aftersales have absorbed 100% of a dealership’s fixed overheads, meaning that what sales produce is profit.
But that 100% is down to c55%, leading to lower profits.
The much reduced pandemic new car sales are also now falling out of the typical three year period when a car would typically go back to a main dealer for service.
OEM parts availability and price, coupled to a cost of living crisis, has meant that conversion rates from work identified by a vehicle health check are both diminished, as are tyre sales.
Much lower maintenance BEV’s have also lessened workshop throughput.
It’s not necessarily the shiny bits at the front of the dealership that are in trouble.
Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Terry W

There is no aspect of the car business which positively benefits from a high cost dealer network, and a whole host of reasons why they are increasingly unnecessary.

  • cars seen by many as functional transport to be acquired at the lowest cost
  • online research and reports negate dealership visits
  • affordability issues with increased interest rates etc
  • emergence of new Chinese brands putting pressure on prices and sales volumes for established manufacturers
  • far less differentiation between different brands - very few poor cars around
  • extended service intervals reducing repeat visits and marketing opportunities
  • reduced brand loyalty
  • potential for online only sales in future - better control of pricing and promotion

Established manufacturers have a materially higher cost base than new mainly Chinese entrants. Dealership margins are ~7% + the costs of managing a dealer network - worth saving.

As folk typically replace a car at three year intervals having a showroom in every major town just isn't necessary. Many simply buy on cost, function or reputation - may never visit a dealer or take a test drive.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Orb>>.

In addition to my earlier post...

The cost of replacing the Korando is silly money, and it would be for no good reason. It's had the big depreciation now, costs only servicing and 2 tyres so far (Touch wood says he)

Above all it is so comfortable, inside still looks classically good, touchscreen is discreet and has knobs and buttons for all the important stuff.

Edited by Orb>>. on 18/12/2024 at 08:17

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Falkirk Bairn

SDM Falkirk

Toyota Dealer for almost 58 years - franchise withdrawn - Great Service BUT cars were expensive - new or 2nd hand. There was always a deal somewhere that was better.

Toyota wanted a Glass Palace apparently

Last month Hyundai & Kia withdrew their franchises for similar reasons I believe. They had been a Hyundai dealer for almost 40 years. Again high prices new & 2nd hand

Manufacturers want Volume - SDM wanted a Good Margin on everything new, 2nd hand, workshop, finance.

23 years ago my then 24 year old son was buying a new Celica and had 2 quotes. He went to SDM (where he knew the salesman, same class at school) and said beat that price and you have a sale! The owner refused as there was a decent margin in the sale, he was paying cash on a tight margin which apparently was not to his liking!!

A Profit is a Profit in my mind.

He bought it in Aberdeen, kept it 6 years before going to the US for 12 month secondment (Bought a Jeep - never again, it was r******)

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - De Sisti

After moving to its new address at 1, Vernon Court, Meteor Business Park, Cheltenham Rd E, Staverton, Gloucester GL2 9QG about 3 years, the Suzuki dealership has now closed.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - movilogo

Some manufacturers tried direct to consumer route but was unsuccessful. Genesis is one such example. They never caught on in UK and now uses Hyundai dealership network.

Dealerships are not required for sales as such (they know very little about cars and try to push financial deals) but necessary for after sales service.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - RT

Some manufacturers tried direct to consumer route but was unsuccessful. Genesis is one such example. They never caught on in UK and now uses Hyundai dealership network.

Dealerships are not required for sales as such (they know very little about cars and try to push financial deals) but necessary for after sales service.

Dealerships aren't even necessary for after sales - servicing can be done by any competent workshop and warranty repairs could be done by repair agents if the manufacturer allowed.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Adampr

I've often thought it would be nice for major towns to have a 'car library', where people can view and test drive each manufacturer's current models, then have a lounge where you can buy online if you want to.

Obviously, yes, you would need to work out a way to prevent abuse of the facility.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Falkirk Bairn

Ineos was direct sales BUT now has dealers - sales have collapsed compared to 12 months ago.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - RT

Ineos was direct sales BUT now has dealers - sales have collapsed compared to 12 months ago.

Part of the problem with Ineos sales is that they're classified as commercial vehicles so subject to lower speed limits than, say, LR Series/Defender

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Lee Power

SDM Falkirk

Toyota Dealer for almost 58 years - franchise withdrawn - Great Service BUT cars were expensive - new or 2nd hand. There was always a deal somewhere that was better.

Toyota wanted a Glass Palace apparently

Toyota Europe / UK is currently overhauling all the main dealers for the new customer hub concept, this roll out started back in 2022.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Andrew-T

There is no aspect of the car business which positively benefits from a high cost dealer network, and a whole host of reasons why they are increasingly unnecessary.

The Pug dealership in Macclesfield where I bought my 207SW 16 years ago (almost to the day) had been a Cookson family business since 1911. It seems to have sold out to a Kia chain about a year ago, presumably another casualty of the general trend. I wouldn't say they had a glass palace though :-)

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Steveieb

Exactly the same situation in Hayle in Cornwall Andrew where the family business changed to Kia and since then sales have taken off after a shaky start .

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Ethan Edwards

With the adoption of EVs you really won't have the same level of need for dealers / maintenance etc. They'll change the ownership model. Sure I have an annual service but that's very much cheaper so far less profit in the deal.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - daveyjp

I read today that most Vertu showrooms will now no longer be open on Sunday due to increasing costs of operation and fewer sales.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - mcb100
Quite a number of dealerships haven’t opened on Sundays since everything closed for Covid, with very little, if any, loss of business.
Sundays in showrooms aren’t what they once were, most are six hours of tedium for the sales team.
Fewer 'glass palaces'? - alan1302
Quite a number of dealerships haven’t opened on Sundays since everything closed for Covid, with very little, if any, loss of business. Sundays in showrooms aren’t what they once were, most are six hours of tedium for the sales team.

I'm surprised they are quiet on a Sunday...thought they would have been one of the busier days - I'd only be able to go on a Sunday/Saturday usally.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Adampr

I spent 3 hours sitting in the waiting area of a large franchised dealer yesterday. I was having a service and decided not to go back and forth on the bus. Anyway, nobody came in looking to buy a car and it was somewhat cold in there. I think we are definitely going to see a change of approach soon - the status quo can't be sustainable.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Engineer Andy
Quite a number of dealerships haven’t opened on Sundays since everything closed for Covid, with very little, if any, loss of business. Sundays in showrooms aren’t what they once were, most are six hours of tedium for the sales team.

I'm surprised they are quiet on a Sunday...thought they would have been one of the busier days - I'd only be able to go on a Sunday/Saturday usally.

Indeed - my local Mazda dealership stopped doing maintenance work on Saturdays during the pandemic times, which is a right shame as it is easier to fit in on that day, plus now they (like most main dealerships) charge a daily fee (somewhere near £20 I think) for use of a 'courtesy' car, which obviously used to be free.

I always did my browsing for new cars on the weekend.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - RickyBoy

Hyundai dealer at Old (Stony) Stratford (N of MK), whom I've used for 9-years for both our i10's, closed on 01/02/25.

All business transferred to Bletchley Hyundai (same owner group) 13 miles away. I reside midway between the two towns, so no real discomfort for me, apart from the fact that you could never find a parking-spot at Bletchley as it was always rammed with their vehicles!

Nearest out of the area would be either Bedford or Northampton. I bought the first i10 from Bedford but as they never contacted me re: servicing I went to OS ...

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - davecooper

I don't really mind a reduction in the number of dealerships, I have travelled far and wide to find cars and my current dealer is a 30 miles away. However, I do want a reasonable test drive after which I want to go away and think it over.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Falkirk Bairn

12 months ago I had the 1st car service at the Honda dealer. 3+ hours waiting as there were others in the queue before my 8am arrival.

3 glass palaces - Nissan, Honda & Toyota - all same chain and restricted parking spaces - 12-15 new Nissan lined up using valuable customer parking.

Honda showroom dead, no punters until just before I was leaving. Punter had 3+ year old CRV, looked like older driver, partner + younger woman - looking at downsizing to a Jazz/HRV. He set off on a HRV test drive, eventually and rather erratically.

Booked in for Friday - I intend to arrive well before others and hopefully be in/out in less time. Will report back on showroom punters, or lack of, exactly 12 months to the day.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - FiestaOwner

I don't really mind a reduction in the number of dealerships, I have travelled far and wide to find cars and my current dealer is a 30 miles away.

It's not just the occasional initial buying experience, that you use the main dealer. New cars normally come with warranties of at least 3 years (some are 5, 7 and 10 years). So you are tied to using the main dealer for servicing, warranty work and repairs throughout the warranty period.

Travelling a distance for one service a year might be tolerable, but repairs (and warranty work) often need a trip to diagnose the problem and another to fix it (and all too often another trip to re-diagnose the fault and yet another to fix it properly).

If you're working, all these long trips to the dealer become a right pain. It's not so bad if the dealer is close by, but of course it's still inconvenient.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Andrew-T

<< It's not just the occasional initial buying experience, that you use the main dealer. New cars normally come with warranties of at least 3 years (some are 5, 7 and 10 years). So you are tied to using the main dealer for servicing, warranty work and repairs throughout the warranty period. >>

Depends whether you intend to keep the car till the warranty expires. If so, you need not worry about reducing the car's resale value, and can consider the savings in using a more convenient and probably cheaper indy ?

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - FiestaOwner

<< It's not just the occasional initial buying experience, that you use the main dealer. New cars normally come with warranties of at least 3 years (some are 5, 7 and 10 years). So you are tied to using the main dealer for servicing, warranty work and repairs throughout the warranty period. >>

Depends whether you intend to keep the car till the warranty expires. If so, you need not worry about reducing the car's resale value, and can consider the savings in using a more convenient and probably cheaper indy ?

I would most certainly trust my very local indy over a franchised dealer.

I accept that once the warranty is over, a dealer service history probably isn't worth much more than an independent one.

However if you buy say a new Kia (with a seven year warranty) and get it serviced at a local independent, then your warranty would be invalidated after the 1st service (at one year old).

I would rather keep my warranty intact and get any servicing done at the dealer throughout the warranty period.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - alan1302

However if you buy say a new Kia (with a seven year warranty) and get it serviced at a local independent, then your warranty would be invalidated after the 1st service (at one year old).

That's not true - you can get it serviced at any VAT registered garage as long as they use the correct parts/fluids then Kia have to honour the warranty...if you want to risk that then that's a choice you have to make but legally speaking then you can have it serviced elsewhere.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - daveyjp

The "VAT registered garage" is also an urban myth.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - movilogo

While it is legally possible to service anywhere, it is less than ideal experience to argue with manufacturer when a warranty claim is rejected on this ground,

It is better to budget for main dealer servicing when buying the car.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Engineer Andy

However if you buy say a new Kia (with a seven year warranty) and get it serviced at a local independent, then your warranty would be invalidated after the 1st service (at one year old).

That's not true - you can get it serviced at any VAT registered garage as long as they use the correct parts/fluids then Kia have to honour the warranty...if you want to risk that then that's a choice you have to make but legally speaking then you can have it serviced elsewhere.

The problem is how can anyone prove that the service used the correct parts and fluids - only if the fault afterwards was during the time that part or fluid was on/in the car. You could use (say)m inferior oil for three years, then the proper stuff, and get a problem.

Similarly with the 'checking' part of servicing - have they actually checked all the things 'ticked off' on the docket?

Trouble is, all this can apply to any servicing, whether from a main dealer or indie. They only was to prove it would be for someone to video the whole thing, which isn't reasonable.

Mine provides a short 1-2 min video of what they've found when inspecting under the car - corrosion, suspension, brakes, but nothing else. Better than nothing I suppose, but bear in mind they said my car needed suspension work at the Jan 2024 service (also featuring on the MOT as 'advisories'), and yet it passed this year's service with no notes on that score at all - a completely blank MOT document apart from the emissions data and 'pass'. This despite me not having any work done of that nature. Hmmm...

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Andrew-T

<< ... they said my car needed suspension work at the Jan 2024 service (also featuring on the MOT as 'advisories'), and yet it passed this year's service with no notes on that score at all - a completely blank MOT document apart from the emissions data and 'pass'. >>

If you have an hour to spare, you are usually able to watch your car's booked MoT test being done, but that may be less convenient if it is being serviced as well. The MoT test contains no 'servicing' as such, except perhaps topping up the screenwash. A tester may comment on an oil leak, but do nothing further.

It's not unusual to get advisories for (say) suspension work one year, do nothing about it, and no advisory a year later. Perhaps the most regular remark is about wearing or cracking tyres ?

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - mcb100
MOT stations have to provide a viewing area with an unrestricted view of the MOT ramp - that can be as simple as a window, or a monitor linked to a camera in the MOT bay.
Same as they have to provide dedicated MOT parking bays.
I’m usually under the car with the tester whilst mine’s being done, my one opportunity to have a look for myself.
Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Robert J.

Many years ago my partner had an MX-5. Before it was three years old all of the alloys had corroded. Mazda eventually agreed to replace them all under warranty but not before they had taken photos of: the wheels; the service book (with Mazda stamps in); the odometer (to show < 60K miles) and the log book to show it’s age.

Because I spend too much time in the backroom, I asked all the pertinent questions a self-respecting BRer would. ‘What do Mazda garages do on a service that non-Mazda garages don’t that would have prevented this’ and ‘why is the mileage important when it’s not a mileage related problem?’ Both were answered with ‘It’s a condition of the warranty’.

The garage later confided in me that Mazda had tried to cut corners and used some cheaper materials in the wheels ‘but it’s come back to bite them because they’re all coming back for warranty replacements’.

My conclusion was: if they had a large number of expensive warranty claims they were going to try and weasel their way out if they could, so it’s best to keep to manufacture’s servicing unless you want a battle.

Fewer 'glass palaces'? - Falkirk Bairn

It was the car's 2nd service yesterday.

2024 - Arrived 8.00am and found I was 5/6th in the queue. 3 set off immediately and there were 4 of us helping ourselves to the "free coffee".

2025 Arrived 7.50am and found I was 1st in the queue. 1 set off immediately and there 2 of us helping ourselves to the "free coffee".

2024 Around 9am there were 3 sales and in the other corner 3 Admin + 2 Service Reception.

2025 Around 9am there was Zero sales and in the other corner Zero Admin + 1 Service Reception.

2025 Car was taken round 8.15.

9.30 We have some concern about the rear brakes -Brake Cleaner & an air hose? - No they said wheels off & stripped £77 extra.

Suggestions

Petrol Additive to clean tubes and cut exhaust smoking - £20 extra NO! It's 2 and I run car on Premium Petrol

Change AC fluid as the car is now 2! NO it blows cold - £125

Car ready 10.15 - the £345 2nd service is on 5 year contract so "free"

What is included for £345 VERY LITTLE it seems

Oil + filter change , Air Filter and a Health check/ look around to produce a list of extras as above. The car was spray washed but not dried off and the inside was not hoovered (car is hoovered weekly and I had left the odd crumb or 2 on the mats)

By 9.30 am there was a salesman' jacket on a chair - at 10.20 an elderly couple walked in just as I was leaving! 2024 there was an elderly couple taking a brand new car out for a test drive.

Almost a Marie Celeste sales floor!

Coincidentally my son arrived 8.30 yesterday at the Toyota Palace next door. He had the Aygo serviced 3 months ago & a new serpentine fan/AC belt was fitted. Screaming like a Banshee but still tight he went on Monday for an "assessment"

Toyota Belt faulty BUT they could not fix it as they do not carry spares!! Not even fan belts. It was replaced at no charge. He used to use the local Franchised Dealer 200 yards from his home - lost franchise and to maintain the "10 year warranty" he travels the 15 miles to his now local Toyota site.

Visited a local Greggs on the same site as the garages - 2 Bacon Rolls (well filled & 2 Coffees £5.70) - Special Pricing as they compete was "burger vans" nearby. Highlight of the day!