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Unless the issue of insurance is settled, in that the car's infallible computer system is legally the driver, and in the event of an accident the "human driver who isn't driving" is not liable, driverless cars are going nowhere.
So, insurance companies, please step up to the plate and show your confidence in the driverless car by offering ridiculously low premiums.
It hasn't happened yet as far as I know.
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If your driverless car gets a speeding ticket will it have to take a course or have to have points on it's license?
They will not need speed cameras or traffic cops with autonomous cars, they will not drive over the speed limit, so another saving for the government unless the cops are transfered to other duties?
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If a driverless car gets a speeding ticket, the inventor should be the one who pays the penalty for building something which is complicit in illegal activity.
But...I strongly suspect that the law will be "tweaked" so that nobody who is regarded as a bastion of capitalist endeavour will suffer any consequences if their precious, ground breaking baby doesn't always toe the line.
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If a driverless car gets a speeding ticket, the inventor should be the one who pays the penalty for building something which is complicit in illegal activity.
But...I strongly suspect that the law will be "tweaked" so that nobody who is regarded as a bastion of capitalist endeavour will suffer any consequences if their precious, ground breaking baby doesn't always toe the line.
Unlikely a driverless car, ie fully autonomous is going to speed unless it has a mind of its own which is the general idea of it, so as the different parts are invented by several parties/companies, it would be hard to pinpoint who was to blame
but as focus pointed out, insurance companies are going to have a hard time working out accident blame due to the nature of the how the car works...interesting one that!
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I can't see autonomous cars working in the UK in the near future.
autonomous vehicles mixing with unskilled drivers ?
how does the autonomous car know the speed limit - does it read the signs ? Should I put a 20 limit by my road so they go nice & slow (and possibly a no-left-turn sign to stop them altogether).
I must learn to hack - there's going to be so much opportunity in this brave new world.
The car industry is having problems building robotised transmissions, the idea of travelling in an out-of-warranty self-driving car is not appealing.
Why don't the government prioritise autonomous trains ? We've had the DLR for years, I'm sure automating the driving of Southern Railway - get rid of the driver and keep the guard - is technically possible. At least that would keep the automata & unskilled operators apart.
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Well this is very interesting, among the decently intelligent folk here the idea of driverless vehicles is about as welcome as a dose of the pox, which is on a par with how they are viewed on the lorry driver's forum, apart from one oddball posting under at least 2 alias's.
If you use you mobile hands free the chances are the signal will drop at least once during the call, as said they can't get an automated manual gearbox to perform any better than a chimp could drive it, yet they think that driverless vehicles are going to be the thing in the new utopia they wish to be in charge of.
When they've finished making everyone redundant (proletariat only you understand) have they worked out who's going to be spending the money they no longer earn to keep them in ever higher profits?
Never mind, whilst they're faffing about with this, the latest wheeze, it keeps the eggheads from playing with really dangerous stuff.
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What cannot be enforced usually ends up being made legal. We already have driverless cars- "Drivers"' filmed eating chinese food with chop sticks, making phone calls, putting on makeup, reading books etc etc. All we need is a flashing light on such vehicles and the rest of us might get more of a chance to avoid close contact.
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We already have them around here. They appear during the school run. Well they might as well be driverless as the drivers are looking sideways talking with their kids, chatting on their mobiles, double parking, moving off without indicating, etc... If the police set up an operation near any local school they could catch dozens. No AI here just sheer stupidity!
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it is not if but when. I would place it as more than 3 but less than 10 years. I do not expect the UK to lead the world in the use of driverless vehicles but follow another with lower regulatory hurdles. What comes to the Uk will have major bugs already fixed.
Most of the problems are there because we don't want to find a solution. A little like the man with a red flag in case the car wrought unimaginable carnage.
With all the sensing equipment carried the facts of any event will be revealed in glorious technicolor and action taken accordingly.
Walking out in front of a driverless vehicles to stop it will quickly cease when cameras etc demonstrate they misjudged the distance and were flattened.
Vandalism will be reduced - they will not want to be the focus of a high resolution image.
Accidents will have sensor and camera data giving an unambiguous record of what happened, not several personal interpretations
Software will be updated to improve prerfomance.
I grew up at a time when car ownership provided status and freedom. But I suspect I am the last generation for which this is the case. In 25 years driverless will be the norm for all but specialist requirements. Most on this forum including me are like the dinosaur, close to extinction.
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Regardless of where autonomous technology might take us, this fascinating interactive questionnaire on the moral decisions that an autonomously pilotted car has to make effectively blocks the technology from ever reaching the general public. The legal and moral maze is too complex imo. Although Mercedes have openly stated that their tech will protect the car occupants above all else....gutsy
Have a play
moralmachine.mit.edu/ and click on 'Start Judging'
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<< Most on this forum including me are like the dinosaur, close to extinction. >>
It is because most of 'us' are like dinosaurs that I have misgivings about the whole idea of driverless cars. I don't believe anyone has yet designed any computer-driven system which has anticipated all the unexpected circumstances it may need to deal with. And let's face it, roads can present some pretty unexpected circs.
The whole notion that since we can't trust humans to drive faultlessly we should design a machine to do it for us, is too optimistic for me. It's more like an example of 'I've just had an idea - let's make a toy which can drive itself ...' - another vanity project. The internet was a very clever idea too, but like most other inventions or discoveries it has been subverted by some. What might they do with D/Cs ?
I presume a D/C does not need to contain an occupant, so that one can be summoned from somewhere else? So as well as driven cars, our roads will become cluttered with empty ones too ?
Edited by Andrew-T on 29/11/2017 at 15:55
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The legal framework will be fairly straightforward if manufacturers opt for full driverless as responsibility for failure ultimately rests wholly with the manufacturer provided the vehicle is used and maintained in accordance with manufacturers instructions.
There is a more complex issue. In towns and cities postcodes usually define the destinations to 10-25m. In the country this can be an area a mile long with three detached dwellings. The vehicle will need to know (for instance) do I park on road,driveway, behind or adjacent other cars, etc. If I go to the supermarket do I park outside,disabled,in multi-storey etc. So some element of low speed control up to say 15mph will be required-probably joy stick based with back up safely provided by driverless.
IT generally gets smarter as time passes even though it may not all be beneficial. But economics will win in the end and dinosaurs will become extinct. Driverless will provide mobility for millions - elderly, disabled, etc. It will allow those who can't or dislike driving to travel. It will cut the cost of taxis and ultimately buses, possibly delivery services. It could ultimately change the structure of towns and cities with driverless cars dropping people at their destination, parking offsite and recharging, recalled to pick up point using an app, busy polluted town centres disappear,commuting is transformed.
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The legal framework will be fairly straightforward if manufacturers opt for full driverless as responsibility for failure ultimately rests wholly with the manufacturer provided the vehicle is used and maintained in accordance with manufacturers instructions. There is a more complex issue. In towns and cities postcodes usually define the destinations to 10-25m. In the country this can be an area a mile long with three detached dwellings. The vehicle will need to know (for instance) do I park on road,driveway, behind or adjacent other cars, etc. If I go to the supermarket do I park outside,disabled,in multi-storey etc. So some element of low speed control up to say 15mph will be required-probably joy stick based with back up safely provided by driverless. IT generally gets smarter as time passes even though it may not all be beneficial. But economics will win in the end and dinosaurs will become extinct. Driverless will provide mobility for millions - elderly, disabled, etc. It will allow those who can't or dislike driving to travel. It will cut the cost of taxis and ultimately buses, possibly delivery services. It could ultimately change the structure of towns and cities with driverless cars dropping people at their destination, parking offsite and recharging, recalled to pick up point using an app, busy polluted town centres disappear,commuting is transformed.
The general idea is that cars will make their own decisions rather than rely on software giving instructions, similar to self aware robots that are supposedly going to replace soldiers in future.
and once 5g comes into its own, very soon, all cars will be able to talk to each other knowing exactly whats going on and where, even mapping will get better which the car will be able to learn itself where its going, and probably be more accurate about time keeping than a cab would be
because they want a car to be self aware, could prevent them from becoming the norm as they dont feel, have no morals and apart from the software, would not worry about running a person over, as those things cannot be programmed as yet, so I think the governments would have a bit of a dilemma on their hands which could take years to sort out....
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If we humans manage a mere fraction of the time dinosaurs reigned, then we'll be lucky.
People are easily bought with trinkets, and there is never a shortage of those who want power who bribe their adulators with more trinkets than the other contender to help them attain heights, political parties a prime example, those who want power are the ones who should be automatically denied it.
This strive for automation is simply money/power crazed people trying to get one over on the others in case they come up with the robotised unstoppable army before them , because autonomous armed units able to act independantly is where all this driverless sideshow is ultimately aimed, drone's a bit costly in destruction old bean, we'd rather cull without the collateral damage which is costing too much.
People use the dinosaur term to mock those who don't willingly follow the progress god, when humans have got 50 million years of history instead of 5 minutes and haven't destroyed their planet or themselves, then they might earn the right to say we were right.
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"The legal framework will be fairly straightforward if manufacturers opt for full driverless as responsibility for failure ultimately rests wholly with the manufacturer provided the vehicle is used and maintained in accordance with manufacturers instructions. "
This won't happen. Ever.
Two words, parking sensors. The vast majority of cars these days come with rear parking sensors at the very least, going up to those that park themselves. The common theme is that every single user manual will caveat that the parking assitance system should be governed by the driver's judgement, and is therefore not infallible.
How on earth will any manufacturer take responsibility for a full autonomous system's performance? Answer, they never will. Meaning the driver must be aware of how the system is behaving and be ready to step if there's an immediate problem. So like driving then, with a bit less interaction.
Autonomously piloted cars is the 3D TV of the motoring industry. An uncomfortable, confusing technology which no driver will prefer over actual control.
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