BMW 320D - Warranty Woe

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Tue 5 Mar 2013 14:37
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - VelcroFly

Hi there, I've found my way here on a friend's advice, so er.... hello!

I'm not sure if anything will come of this, as it's another of those warranty related ordeals, but whatever.... sometimes it's also good to vent. Warranty/supermarket company names omitted (for now).

Two years ago a bought a 100K miles BMW from a car supermarket, and along with it a 3rd party warranty specifically to cover any problems arising from the car's high mileage. In this case I was particularly concerned about the timing chain, so I think you can see where this story is headed. Looking back I see two of those three things were a big mistake (not the car, it's ace).

Several weeks ago, it went in for a routine oil service to a very very good and reputable indie BMW specialist nearby, who spotted noises indicative of timing chain problems. After he explained what could happen if it failed, and advised that it shouldn't be driven, I was straight on to the warranty people, who said to get the garage to call them and give details. They did, and of course the warranty people refused to pay to have it inspected and/or replaced, saying they only cover failure of warranted parts, not to inspect a possible future failure. So at that point I was faced with a £2k bill to get this sorted with no hope of claiming it back, or wait for it to fail. Soon after, of course, it failed.

Now, three carless weeks of messing around later, and after they sent two engineers out, they've finally turned round and said they won't cover the parts because I drove it after the *possible* failure was spotted, which they say is wear and tear. This is after initially saying they'd cover the chain + labour (after the first inspection). The second inspection nearly 2 weeks later just threw that right out.

So as I see it my option was to pay £2K out of my own pocket right away, or wait for failure so the warranty would (hopefully) cover it, which obviously hasn't turned out very well. The bill is now £2.8K which TBH is not as bad as I was expecting, but still... £2k then or 2.8K now... awesome.

Also, perversely, if it wasn't for the potential fault being noticed earlier (I'd never have known, it took a BMW specialist), then the chain would just have gone one day and would surely count as a sudden failure, exact same circumstances, but a different definition in the eyes of the warranty company.

All of which leaves me a bit at a loss. I called and spoke to the warranty people and got nowhere, they have an address for complaints but I don't see it doing me any good. Do I have any recourse here? I'm guessing not as the net is riddled with people with similar stories with no resolution.

Ho hum.

Bah.

*sadface*

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Tue 5 Mar 2013 18:24
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - injection doc

I;m afraid there is no winner other than the insurance companies ! you should of just let it explode & then hope.

They do not cover wear & tear which is what a worn timing chain is ! if it snaps great then its a failure.

Not worth the paper they are written on & you definatley cant help them by advising them that somethings about to burst !

Another bit of useful advice is if your car ever starts to catch fire, ie electrics start burning dont attempt to cut the battery or prevent a fire ! if it doesnt burn down then its not covered by insurance , as it will be classed as just a failure. been there done that ! next time a wiring loom start smoldering i will wave a fan and help it burn !

I wonder when miss-selling of car warranties will hit the headlines !

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Tue 5 Mar 2013 18:52
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - Collos25

Take some legal advice then you will have a good idea where you stand, as above these warranties are little more than worthless.

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Tue 5 Mar 2013 18:55
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - tony g
(In this case I was particularly concerned about the timing chain)

I think most car buyers are aware of the shortcomings of warranty companies however buying a car with 100k miles is always going to be a lottery .Wear and tear seems a fair description to me .

You enjoyed two years of motoring on a car with high mileage ,not a bad result ?

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Tue 5 Mar 2013 19:07
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - Collos25

People seem to think that timing chains are forever and do not need attention while cambelts are something to be avoided if possible.Owning a few BMWs in my life and still do its my opinion that the timing chain on BMWs should be changed along with all ancillary parts no later than 120k miles and if possible at 100k.Thats unless its a BMW 1 then I would change it at 30k.

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Tue 5 Mar 2013 19:33
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - VelcroFly

I'm in the spot right between those two figures.... just rotten luck I guess.

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Tue 5 Mar 2013 19:32
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - VelcroFly

Yeah, once I calmed down and worked out what it's actually going to cost to repair and spread it out back over the past two years, it works out about the same as my previous car's monthly payments. Plus I should be able to get back a bit from the warranty by cancelling it, as it was 3 years paid for and there's over a year left to run.

Also, excuse for a new car, woohoo.

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Tue 5 Mar 2013 19:05
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - Pondlife

As you've probably noticed, there are lots of similar tales of woe once you start searching for them.

I also had a problem when I tried to claim on a warranty a few years ago. I eventually managed to get them to pay up via the ombudsman, but I think I was quite lucky that they didn't find a concrete reason to wriggle out of paying. Here's the summary if you're interested:

www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=98232#...9

I think the general rule is that the cheapest insurance is self-insurance, and you should only insure for those things that you can't afford to pay (like home insurance) for or are legally obliged to have (like motor insurance).

If you think about it, the insurance companies are there to make a profit, so on average you won't come out ahead. But they need to market their products in a positive light or noone would buy them.

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Tue 5 Mar 2013 19:27
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - unthrottled

At 100k, I think they could reasonably argue that the timing chain had exceeded its expected lifetime and therefore, its failure, is attributable to wear and tear.

But they shouldn't be selling warranties on hige mileage cars.

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Tue 5 Mar 2013 19:42
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - nortones2

Is it not more likely that the chain tensioner had failed? This leads inevitably to chain failure. A well known BMW malady. Some BMW expert may know why BMW changed the tensioner design....

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Tue 5 Mar 2013 20:20
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - Collos25

They changed them on the 1 series because they were haveing to change the old design under warranty faster than they could make them .

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Wed 6 Mar 2013 08:57
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - TeeCee

At 100k, I think they could reasonably argue that the timing chain had exceeded its expected lifetime and therefore, its failure, is attributable to wear and tear.

<Vapours>

The only advantage of a chain drive over a belt is that the chain shouldn't need replacing during the life of the engine. If regular replacement is necessary, a belt is the better option as it's simpler and cheaper to replace.

Back in the day, timing chains were expected to last forever and engines that required them to be replaced regularly (e.g. Triumph Stag) were rightly regarded as pig's ears to be avoided at all costs.

Maybe the only problem with the Stag was it had the wrong badge on it, as BMW's shoddily built engines don't seem to be doing their reputation for quality any damage?

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Wed 6 Mar 2013 09:03
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - Collos25

The main problem with the Stag was overheating not the timing chain the engines never lasted long enough for that to to be change.I had new one it had two engines in the first 6 months of ownership the magazines at the time were full of problems with the overheating problem but I never saw one regarding the timing chain.

Timing chains can last the lifetime of the vehicle so can cambelts its luck of the draw but most people are not risk takers when it comes to their pride and joy.

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Wed 13 Mar 2013 17:36
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - brum

The main problem with the Stag was overheating not the timing chain the engines never lasted long enough for that to to be change.I had new one it had two engines in the first 6 months of ownership the magazines at the time were full of problems with the overheating problem but I never saw one regarding the timing chain.

IIRC the stag engine was basically the dolomite engine x2 (actually the dolomite being the stag engine cut in half) - both had cylinder head problems inherent by design - a stupid combination of both head bolts and studs/nuts as I recall. Gasket failure was guaranteed at regular intervals.

Something also tells me the original Saab 2 litre 4 stroke engine was of dolomite origin. That one of mine also had head gasket failure and timing chain/tensioner failure.

It seems all manufacturers seem unable to design reliable (cambelt/camchain) tensioners whenever launching a "new design" - maybe something to consider with the all new VAG MQB engines (EA211 etc)?

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Wed 13 Mar 2013 18:11
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - RT
Something also tells me the original Saab 2 litre 4 stroke engine was of dolomite origin. That one of mine also had head gasket failure and timing chain/tensioner failure.

The slant four engine was developed for Saab by Triumph as Saab had no resources to design/build their own engine - due to quality issues Saab took over development and build and the engine was still in use in the Vectra-based 900 / 9-3 and 9-5 until 2009.

Triumph's contract enabled them to build the engine for their own use - not very successfully as history records.

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Wed 13 Mar 2013 18:49
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - Collos25
Something also tells me the original Saab 2 litre 4 stroke engine was of dolomite origin. That one of mine also had head gasket failure and timing chain/tensioner failure.

The slant four engine was developed for Saab by Triumph as Saab had no resources to design/build their own engine - due to quality issues Saab took over development and build and the engine was still in use in the Vectra-based 900 / 9-3 and 9-5 until 2009.

Triumph's contract enabled them to build the engine for their own use - not very successfully as history records.

Do you remember the disaster of an engine in the Dolomite Sprint 4cylinder 16 valve if I remember righty, remember buying one at auction and haveing to break it to try and get some money back learnt never to touch one again.

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Tue 5 Mar 2013 19:36
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - VelcroFly

Cheers all, it's more or less confirming what I feared. Ah well, I'll chalk it up to experience and move on. Can't even see any point writing to anyone, as yes I did drive the car after being advised on what might happen, they've got their cast iron get out clause right there I think, unfair as it may be.

I'll come out just ahead on selling the car at least.... *just*.

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Wed 13 Mar 2013 15:47
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - VelcroFly

Slight update on this one as I'm not ready to just give up quite yet.

I've just recieved a copy of the engineer's report on this, and throughout it the engineer comments on the state of various components. We have the chain itself ("wear within the links but this was not considered excessive to suggest the chain having purely worn"), the oil pump drive chain, injection pump to camshaft pulley, chain guides all had wear which was "not considered excessive". The tensioner was indeed the main cause, having "heavy resistance and almost locked solid suggesting that the tensioner had most likely locked causing an over tensioning of the chain". Very clean engine, good service regimen etc etc... "considered possible that there may have been a failure of the tensioner due to potential blockage, or that the unit had come to the end of its natural life due to general in service wear and deterioration". That last part of that last statement surely contradicts the rest of the report, but anway...

It then goes on to say that basically if I'd paid to repair it myself it wouldn't have cost so much. O rly? And that is what they appear to have rejected the claim on. After speaking to an advisor on the phone, he accused me of 'driving to destruction' the car and replied to every point I made with "but you drove it afterwards". As I see it if I hadn't taken the car in for a service, the car would have recieved the exact same treatment, only that the breakdown would have been out of the blue. What you get for being honest I guess.

So this might put a different spin on things, if the engineer is stating throughout the report that wear is minimal, and then speculating that the failure is due to 'wear and tear'. I still plan to write a formal letter of complaint and am in contact with a few consumer groups, so we'll how it pans out. There's also section 75 of the CCA to consider, as I bought the warranty with a credit card.

As an aside, I got the car back yesterday, final bill £3500. Balls. Drives great though.

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Thu 14 Mar 2013 12:46
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - Rats

I would invest a few quid in a small claim against the warranty company, get a symaphetic judge you could well win or if someone at the warranty company is risk adverse they may pay part of the bill for you.........

The advice you were given seems to suggest a judge might just fall on your side......

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Thu 14 Mar 2013 13:04
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - VelcroFly

Yes, if the letter gets an unsatisfactory response I'll try that next. Cheers.

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Fri 17 May 2013 22:24
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - VelcroFly

Well hello there. It's been a while.

You'll never guess what...

WIN

Not the full amount, only as much as the warranty pays out up to, but woo all the same.

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Sat 18 May 2013 09:28
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - balleballe

Congrats - did you go through a small claims court?

I suppose the best lessons are learnt the hard way.

Never trust a 3rd party warranty and never trust BMW to build chains

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Sat 18 May 2013 12:09
BMW 320D - Warranty Woe - VelcroFly

Thanks!

No, just a lengthy letter to the complaints department. Lesson learned is 'always complain' I guess. Thank feck that's all done with though, time to get shopping for another (newer this time) Beamer.

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