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Just bought a C4 Grand Picasso. The MOT was expiring, so the dealer said he'd put it through an MOT. When we picked up, he said it had passed with no advisory. When we got it home we found 2 chips in the windscreen, one in drivers line of vision. That shouldn't have got through without an advisory. BUT, when I checked the MOT for last year, the two chips were mentioned in the advisory, so my question is, how on earth did it get through the MOT this time without being spotted? I have 2 chips in my windscreen, is there anything I can do as there is no way this should not have been flagged up. Is it as bad as I think it is?
Edited by davebt on 24/02/2013 at 17:36
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In a word, no. Advisories are just the way the wind is blowing that day as far as the tester is concerned. We've had our old Punto for 8 years, some years the rear springs are corroded, some years they are not. They haven't been touched in the 8 years.
As far as the chips are concerned, if the chip is less than 10mm in the drivers line of vision it can be repaired, if more, it's an MoT fail. Yes, maybe it should have been an advisory, but maybe it is very small. After all, you didn't spot it on your test drive.
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Does the MOT certificate say it has no advisories? There is a little box with 'Advisory Note Issued' or some such on it and the dealer may have just kept the second sheet. You can check it online and see what it was marked on if it has advisories; www.gov.uk/check-mot-status-vehicle
I had a car once which had advisories for supposed 'corroded brake pipes' yet 12 months and 14,000 miles later it passed an MOT at the same garage with no advisory at all, despite me having done nothing with the brake pipes.
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I checked in online and there was no advisory issued. The garage runs the car through the MOT and everything comes up clean but really it wasn't. Isn't this fraud? How can I know that the MOT was done properly if they just seem to have forgotten to check certain parts. If it had shown up on the advisory I most certainly would have made them fix it before purchasing, and if it wasn't for the reference on last years, they could always have told me I did it after I had left them.
Edited by davebt on 24/02/2013 at 18:02
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Ah, but that is a different perspective!! If you don't trust the seller to have an unbiased MoT carried out you should have requested to have the MoT carried out at a station of your choice!! It's what I did when I bought my Saab (it flew through anyway, which I knew it would because I inspected it personally along with another automotive engineer friend).
A chip, which would not constitute a fail can hardly be described as fraud. It wasn't a fail, it didn't fail, where's the fraud?
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Simply take your car to your own local friendly MoT station and ask their advice. Even if they charge you a tenner, you will have independant advice about whether it should have passed and whether an advisory should have been issued.
If it should have been a fail, then you have a case against the dealer, and you can complain to VOSA about the MoT standard (see their website, there is a form).
If it should have been a pass with advisory, then I would say there is little you can do. An adisory is just that, advice. Making you aware of a potential issue for the future (for example I have just had an advisory that one of my tyres is down to 3mm - i knew that anyway, but all they are doing is alerting me that this tyre will need changing soon).
I have to ask though, if one of these chips is in the drivers line of vision, how come it took till you got home to notice it? Did you look at the car at all before buying?
In short, I'm not sure that a chip in the windscreen can be described as a fault that should be fixed by a seller unless it would constitute an MoT failure. You can get it fixed for free by Autoglass on your insurance anyway.
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I saw the car after it had been given the MOT and drove back as it got dark. i noticed the speck on the windscreen but in the dark it just looked a little soiled. As a crack in a windscreen should be an advisory, it didn't occur to me it would be a crack. As for the 'advice', the dealer told me they did the MOT and there was no advisory. As he did it himself, this is somewaht dishonest. He did not tell me there were things that he could have told me but chose not to, he said there was nothing to tell.
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Can you confirm davebt, just how big is this chip?
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I can understand the MOT tester missing this chip, its so tiny that you failed to spot it when you inspected and collected the car.
Couldn't you pop round to one of the screen fitting shops and get them to put some of their glass weld stuff on it.
Lot of fuss over nothing.
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I agree with Mr Bennett, sounds like you are getting a bit paranoid about it, if that's all you've got to worry about, think yourself lucky.
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Can you confirm davebt, just how big is this chip?
Hi
Theree are two. Both about 5p in size
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The MOT manual merely says it is "best practice" to advise the presenter of items which are near to but have not yet reached the point of failure.
They are very much at the discretion of the tester and some go mad and can put 10 advisories on a perfect car (with things like "undertray fitted") and some put none.
So a used car 3+ years old has a couple of stone chips. Big deal, the tester was not obliged to put an advisory even if it may have been "best practice" to do so. It passed last year so sounds OK.
If it bothers you, you should be able to either get it repaired or a new one for £50 through your insurer.
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This sounds like the phenomenon known as buyer's remorse.
You've just shelled out a huge sum of money, and now you are paranoid that you've somehow been swindled.
I bought a used car a few years ago from a large main dealer, and I spotted a crack in the windscreen, BEFORE handing any cash over, and they replaced it without quibble.
Even if they did the MOT on site, the tester would not have let it go as his status and reputation would be at risk if he was found out. So the crack must have been within the allowed size to pass the MOT, I have one on my Range Rover Sport windscreen, but smaller that an 5p, where some debris hit it on the motorway but it just passed the MOT.
If I were you i'd be glad that is the only thing wrong with your Citroen, I looked at one for my Mrs and was horrified that most of the interior plastics had the paint coming off, things like the door handles, I got her an S Max instead, even though it has the most glaring flaws, NO spare wheel and a crazy handbrake.
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If it bothers you, you should be able to either get it repaired or a new one for £50 through your insurer.
Nearly 30 years ago I bought a 9-month-old Cavalier estate with 27K on the clock for about 40% off new price. It had a several-inch crack in the screen which I asked the dealer to fix. He said no, just claim on your insurance, which I did a bit later. But this seems to me a bit more like fraud than what this thread is discussing?
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''He said no, just claim on your insurance''
Authur daley in all his glory.
This thread is about 2 x 5p size screen chips, maybe our OP is looking for the magic formula to return the car and get a full refund.
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lol, buyers remorse, magic formulas, fuss about nothing, etc etc etc. Clearly we have an issue about understanding moral principle. I have no regrets, love the car, but asked a question that I had believed was easily understandable. I remember once Sir Humphrey explaining to bernard about wearing hats. I will try the same tact here.
I had dealing with two actors. One, a man who sold me a car, and secondly a man who conducted an MOT for a vehicle I wanted to buy. Each of these actors had a function to fulfill. That they were the same person is irrelevant. The role of the actor who conducted an MOT, should have done so as if I was the owner and to do his job, check the car for MOT related issues and notify me of any advisory points. If he did not do this, but instead played the part of the sellers stooge, restricting the information given so as not to spoil the sale, I believe he has failed in his job as an MOT tester.
That you believe we are arguing about small cracks is rather telling. How can you know that is the only piece of information he chose not to pass on? What if the MOT discovered something a little more serious. Is there not a duty as an MOT tester to pass the information over?
I came looking for advice on a site called HonestJohn. It seems some of the posters here are very quick to ridicule without actually understanding issues such as conflict of interest.
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It doesn't come across as fraud at all to me or seemingly most others here, for goodness sake its 2 x 5p size chips in a windscreen not a Cut and Shut, if he'd noticed them i am sure would have fetched in the indy screen chappy every local dealer uses and had them filled for a tenner and you would have been none the wiser.
Have you asked the dealer to get the chips repaired, if you kick up enough fuss he might even put a new screen in, would that please you or is the seed of deliberate deceit sown so deep.
Edited by gordonbennet on 26/02/2013 at 12:55
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Your OP only mentioned that you were concerned with the chips. Sorry if we didn't pick up on your fear that the MOT tester was a crook and that you were perhaps worried that the wheels of your new motor could be about to fall off. With hindsight you should have asked the dealer to get the MOT done at an independent garage, but then you wouldn't have known if he was a mate in the trade. Back to square one.
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For the sake of £50 take the car to a different MOT station and get a new certificate. If it passes you will hopefully be happy, if it fails you have the information to take to the DVLA re the garages dishonesty.
But an advisory is differenet to a fail, do not forget that.
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Are the chips of a size or in a place where they would warrant an MoT fail?
If yes the tester has made a mistake and\or been party to a fraud. Either way the OP is entitled to get it put right. New windscreen or patch repair.
If OTOH there is a minor fault that might be picked up as MoT advisory OP has no grouse. It's a SH car and minor/cosmetic damage is inevitable.
Like others here my car (Cit Xantia) has an on/off advisory. Some years the handbrake cable is fraying, others it's not mentioned. When it fails or service recommendsa change a new one will go on. Until then it gets driven as is.
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I came looking for advice on a site called HonestJohn.
But you have had advice - good sensible advice - but it doesn't fit with your view so you choose to ignore it.
The car has passed 2 MOT's with these small chips present , lots of cars have advisories that come and go over the years as has been pointed out. VOSA arn't interested in advisories.. Even if you get it re-MOT tested and it fails the dealer will simply say it was ok when I tested it and it must have got worse since - which is entirely possible.
Deep down you know you should have inspected the car more thoroughly before you paid for it.
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The MOT manual on advisories says:
c)
Other Defects
It is considered best practice to advise the presenter of:
any items which are near to, but which have not yet reached the point of test failure.
any peculiarities of the vehicle identified during the inspection.
any defects on non-testable items which are found during the inspection procedure
and not a lot else. Basically, it is all very much at the discretion of the tester. Most testers put advisories either under pressure to build up some business or to cover their backsides.
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Nurse, he's out of bed again!
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I came looking for advice on a site called HonestJohn. It seems some of the posters here are very quick to ridicule without actually understanding issues such as conflict of interest.
davebt - in your OP you didn't make clear whether the test was done by the selling dealer. With hindsight you may feel that a result from a disinterested tester would be more credible, but when the seller has done the test you may always have doubts. But as it seems your screen damage is within permitted limits, any tester is entitled to advise or not. The only question is whether the test was done thoroughly.
If YOU had taken the car for test at your preferred test station, you could have asked your tester to treat it as his own car and give his best advice. Otherwise it is just part of an everyday business transaction, with all that may entail.
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