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Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - CM
I was driving around town today (including over the spot where those unfortunate people were burnt in their car after a tree fell on it) when I thought how the traffic laws are not the same for all road users.

Fair enough that we car drivers get flashed and punished for jumping red lights (esp as the number of times I have nearly T-boned or been T-boned is ever increasing) but what about pedestrians. There are green and red lights for them telling them when to cross but there seems to be zero enforcement of this. IMHO if saving life is the main reason behind enforcement then surely "unprotected" pedestrians should be saved from themselves.
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - Toad, of Toad Hall.
I thought how the traffic laws are
not the same for all road users.


Yeah! When was the last time you saw a cyclist or horse rider with third party insurance?

A horse can be ridden by a two year old on the road. The child will have less control over its animal than a 14 year old on a moped.

What makes one safe and one dangerous?

Traffic laws are created at random to oppress and earn revenue.


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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - CM
I saw a police horse jumping a red light yesterday. It wasn't even a subtle attempt by starting over when amber.
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - Toad, of Toad Hall.
I saw a police horse jumping a red light yesterday. It
wasn't even a subtle attempt by starting over when amber.


That's nothing. There was a police horse in Safeways shoplifting last night - slipping packets of polos into it's saddle bags. As though wearing shades and pulling it's helmet over it eyes would hide it.

Got away though - the store detective didn't have a chance over the 5 furlongs of fences...
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These are my own opinions, and not necessarily those of all Toads.
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - cockle {P}
I saw a police horse jumping a red light yesterday.


Should do well at the Horse of the Year Show if it can clear a set of lights!!

Must agree with the original sentiment though, on our local ring road we now have a set of pedestrian/cycle path lights that allow approx six vehicles through in the rush hour between pedestrian phases. This causes considerable tail-backs, but not content with having green phases of over 2 mins against the motorists 90 secs the pedestrians still wander across against the red man.
Last week a pedestrian kicked the side of the car in front of me because the driver had the cheek to sound his horn because the pedestrian stepped out in front of him as the lights changed to green. The driver jumped out to grab him but of course the lad had scarpered leaving the car with a nice dent in the door. Would have loved to have seen him caught and done for criminal damage but I haven't seen many flying pigs about recently.


Cockle
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - BrianW
And don't forget there is still a subway for the pedestrians as well as the lights!
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - volvoman
Sure and when we motorists have a day off from driving and become temporary pedestrians we all do exactly the right thing and:

- cross the roads only at the designated crossing points,
- wait for the green man to appear before we step out,
- take a tiresome diversion to use a grotty and intimidating subway,
- and wait patiently in the pouring rain for a clear stretch of road to appear before trying to cross.....

We all know that pedestrians often do very stupid and dangerous things but so do car drivers who often speed excessively, overtake dangerously, drive too close, park over pavements, double park, cause dangerous obstructions etc. etc.

In those places where they mix, if drivers thought a bit more about pedestrians and vice versa we'd all be a lot happier and safer.

There'd also be less need for the sort of draconian measures which none of us want but we're all gonna get unless we start using a bit more common sense and stop turning the issue of road safety into a 'them & us' scenario between drivers and pedestrians.
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - terryb
Volvoman

I think you've missed the point. The "them and us" situation is created precisly by there being draconian penalties on motorists but not on pedestrians (or other road users).

I agree everyone should have more consideration for all types of other road users. This would be helped by equality of enforcement and penalty.

:o)
Terry
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - eric's son
Just some thoughts...

Walking, like breathing, is a basic human task... it doesn't need and shouldn't need regulation. We have trespass & criminal laws to protect property, but other than that it's not such a contentious activity.
Driving, on the other hand, is a persuit that requires regulation, as it is an extremely dangerous activity for others, and assumes all sorts of actions from them that cannot be, and should not have to be, assumed. Ever tried hooting at a sheep that ambles out in front of you? The car driver is in a position of total power as s/he is relatively invulnerable.
We all have to share this tiny planet and a little more "give" and a little less "take" in attitude from motorists would do no harm. What is the big deal if you have to use a bit of acceleration sense by backing off the gas to let someone finish crossing the road in front of you, without running for their life?
Please consider your actions, and consider how important your ABSOLUTE SUPREMACY as a car driver is to you.

ES (a committed (but hopefully thoughtful) driver, and daily pedestrian)
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - bazza
Wise words, ES and friends. As a driver, cyclist and pedestrian I can only totally agree. A few more people around like you and the roads would be a safer place
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - wowbagger
Terry, I think you missed Volvoman's point, at least his initial one, which was that the very same motorists who show no consideration for pedestrians when driving show no consideration for drivers when they are pedestrians.

In any case, we must never lose sight of the fact that as motorists we only use the roads by licence. Pedestrians use the roads by right. We are only issued licences to drive if we can show that we are fit to do so. The right to be a pedestrian extends to all in our society, including children, the elderly and infirm, those who are disabled (mentally or physically) etc.

I've had the privilege of living in both Holland and California (SF Bay area) and I can honestly say that British drivers are, in general, orders of magnitude more aggressive and inconsiderate than in those places.
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - terryb
Wowbagger

Agreed and in essence I totally agree. I like to think I show more than average consideration to ALL other road users whatever mode I am in. (Would the dozy BMW-driving barsteward who blocked me in my driveway this morning whilst stuck in a jam himself please note).

However, to act as devil's advocate, motorists are also the only ones who pay (through the nose) to use the roads. And require compulsory insurance. As a frequent (daily) pedestrian, I have no problem with obeying red/green pedestrian lights exactly as I do with traffic lights as a daily motorist. If I don't, assuming no accident occurs, the penalty as a motorist is high, as a pedestrian it is nothing. Admittedly, if there is an accident, the penalty to the pedestrian is potentially much higher of course, which is something we should all bear in mind when on foot.


Terry
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - terryb
PS In the US of course, jaywalking IS a fineable offence....
Terry
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - CM
PS In the US of course, jaywalking IS a fineable offence....
Terry

as it is in Singapore, where no one does it. Also in Oz where I was once hauled out of a cafe by a copper who gave me a right earful.

Is jaywalking fineable in the UK? I know that the police services are stretched at the best of times and seem not to consider this a problem. From experiance I have never been stopped all the times i do it

My main point was really that because cars are so easily identifiable they are targeted but because cyclists/pedestrians and other road users cannot be easily identified no one bothers to try and stop them as this would use up too much manpower. You may think that this is a petty misdemeanour (and I would tend to agree) but if an accident is caused and you are involved somehow it tends to change ones opinion.
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - wowbagger
Points taken. I take the view, though, that the amount we pay through taxation is more a function of what the government can get away with, rather than any issue of rights and wrongs vis-a-vis drivers versus pedestrians. I do agree that there are inequities in the system though, and I would like to see well-publicised action being taken against law-breaking pedestrians and cyclists "pour encourager les autres" as it were.
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - cockle {P}
The point I was trying to make, and perhaps should have made clearer, is that on this road (Southend Queensway, BrianW, not Chelmsford Parkway, although I believe that is now similar) the lights are phased to give the pedestrian and cyclist longer than the vehicles on the dual carraigeway main road. This phasing priority we could probably argue about until the cows come home but it does cause regular mile long tailbacks which take the best part of 15-20 minutes to get through, DURING THE RUSH HOUR. There is also a virtually continuous stream of pedestrians crossing from one side to the other, again, DURING THE RUSH HOUR. Bear in mind this is the main route across town with only three other possible alternatives all either narrow single carriageway and/or through the town centre. Now, having this scenario is it unreasonable to expect the pedestrians to allow vehicles their fair crack at the green, just as the vehicles have to allow the pedestrians, instead of waiting their rightful turn. In such a situation it is not surprising that the driver of the car in front of me felt frustrated enough to hoot, I do think it unreasonable that for making a noise he should then get his door kicked in, with all the associated grief and expense that goes with it.

Strangely enough most of the pedestrians crossing at this point are going across to the bus stops, to catch buses which now frequently run 25-30 minutes late in the rush hour due to the traffic queues on the ring road!!!!

I don't expect everyone to obey pedestrian lights at all times, but commonsense should prevail, if there is no traffic about does it matter? No.
Sadly commonsense seems to be in short supply these days.


Cockle
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - volvoman
There are some very valid points on both sides of this argument but what comes across most of all is how much better life would be for everyone if we all used a bit more common sense !

On a seperate note - what I like about this is we have expressed a variety of opinions but thus far nobody has got abusive or started ranting. It wasn't long ago that this forum was suffering from a bad dose of 'ranting ravers' - thankfully that seems to have been cured :-)
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - Mark (RLBS)
yeah, well remember that the next time I am getting abused for either supposed censorship or heavy-handed moderating.
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - volvoman
Yes, but you've got to admit you've had less to do in the BR lately Mark ! ;-)
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - Mark (RLBS)
And why do you think that is, oh wise one ?
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - volvoman
The abscence of a certain individual (in large part) methinks Mark !

I see you've even got time to start threads now, whatever next? ;-)
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - Mark (RLBS)
three things, imho;

1) the absence of certain individualS
2) an awareness of a lack of tolerance from me
3) a more reasonable attitude from those who are here
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - CM
about time you retire and let us children get on by ourselves
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - Mark (RLBS)
Actually I haven't done much other than maintenance and care for a while. Its quite nice. I get to read the backroom rather than rushing around.
Cameras vs cars/pedestrians - Dynamic Dave
Actually I haven't done much other than maintenance and care
for a while.


Does that mean we get a share of your Ploughmans lunch for good behaviour?