Please no lectures, what I did was wrong and won't happen again. Any advice will be much appreciated as I've never been in this situation before. I have no excuses for what I did, putting it simply, it was a huge mistake which will never happen again!
I'm due in court next week and have hired a local Laywer to help me with the case. Obviously the huge negative is I was way over the legal limit, blowing 123mg. I suppose the only things which will go for me is i'm 22, have a clean license, held the same job for over 5 years and also do voluntary work (teaching children) twice a week each evening. Both my job and volutary work require a car for travel (each over 20 miles away from where I live). Obviously I will receive a ban, but can anyone advise what other punishments I may get??
I have seen my Dr for depression and being unable to eat due to the fear of prison. I am def going to lose my job and the kids I teach will suffer (Freestyle Dance Teacher). I realise it's my own fault, but am really worried that this mistake is going to turn my life upside down?
No previous conviction, driving offences and thankfully nobody was injured. It was simply a routine stop and a Drink Drive charge. I really cannot apologise enough!
Any advise and help will be much appreciated. Thanks, Link.
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 03/06/2009 at 11:17
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As the OP asked no lectures or sermons.
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Several years of high price car insurance and maybe an income related fine, I am not sure about the latter. Other cases, where a ban has not been imposed, have been where the banned person was running a business with XX employees which would close if he wasn't there to run it. Many people, other than you, will be inconvenienced if you are banned but nobody will lose their job, except you. Sorry to be a bit dismal but it is a rather dismal situation you are in.
Edited by Armitage Shanks {p} on 02/06/2009 at 21:16
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I made the same mistake back in 1992; I was at the time a transport manager who needed his licence but I still got a 12 month ban and a £200 fine. I should add that I was nowhere near as far over the limit as you were though, in fact I was informed by the arresting officer that if my last drink had been a half rather than a pint I might well have got away with a walk home and a severe ear-bashing.... ah well.
Your relative youth might in fact go against you here, and I suspect you might even end up re-taking your test. It's always a gamble pleading that you hold a position of responsibuility as some magistrates could well take the view that in your case you ought to know better! I had this stressed to me when I was sentenced, but I was very lucky in that my employer gave me a very good character reference, and I had also just been through a custody dispute over my kids.
You need to ensure that your brief stresses that you were helpful and co-operative when you were arrested (and I do hope you were) and of course that you've been a good boy previously. As much remorse as you can possibly do without going over the top; and I would suggest that if you are offered some sort of training or counselling then you agree to it.
Apart from the ramped-up insurance premiums, you can forget about trying to hire a car for a good few years. One other thing it cost me BTW was a delay in the return of my HGV licence and it also went against me for some years when applying for jobs. Don't think it won't be the same for you either as many employers look upon a drink-driving conviction as a sign of weakness; unless of course you fancy a career in politics or journalism!
Thankfully I learned from my mistake; for goodness' sake please do the same.
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8< snip snip snip 8<
(note to mods, Im sorry but due to the amount over I cannot stand by and not comment)
And there lies a perennial Backroom problem - some people just don't know when to shut up, even when asked politely in advance. Smokie, Moderator
Edited by smokie on 02/06/2009 at 21:40
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i wish i could afford to go 123mg
that must be a barrel full
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You will have a criminal record.
You will be disqualified from driving for at least a year.
You will not go to jail.
Your next vehicle insurance premium will significantly increase.
You will have difficulty hiring a car for the next 10 years.
Your lifestyle will change dramatically.
You may have to retake your driving test and attend rehabilitation to regain your licence.
The only safe way to drive is not to drink.
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The original poster (OP) asked for some advice (and got some from Harleyman and might from others). Others chose to lecture. The OP asked for no lectures and Pugugly repeated this. And yet Smokie has had to snip a thread and some posts hidden. We've also had some reports to the moderators already (thanks for those).
Can we post helpful posts and anything else just don't post. The poster knows he has done wrong and may lose job.
It's all too easy to lecture and preach.
So no more lecturing.
Edited by rtj70 on 02/06/2009 at 22:04
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Four times over the limit! I would prepare for significantly longer than a twelve month ban.
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Four times over the limit!
Sorry - limit is 80mg, so how is this 4 times over?
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Its 35 in breath which is what the OP said he provided.
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Its 35 in breath which is what the OP said he provided.
Ah ok - show's how much I know
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I haven't had to use it, and have no connection, (i just found it interesting reading), but this site may be of some help.
www.roadsidelawyer.co.uk
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Have no clue to the punishments but i will add that the amount of young people that drink drive is astounding.
We have had some young lads work in our company and all 4 of them admitted to drink driving and then saying that most of their mates do it too. 1 of them who works for us has been banned twice, the 2nd time was for drink driving and he got a 6 month ban i believe. He struggled to get into work but since worked something out which is when it all came out.
To top that off, one of the lads dads constantly drink drives and has been banned 3 times for drink driving and is country driving his van around on a ban and he is struggling for work being in the building trade.
Nothing i can do will ever change the fact that so many people do this.
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Penalty - Fine - up to Level 5 (£5,000) and/or up to 6 months imprisonment
Mandatory disqualification for at least 12 months for first offence
Mandatory disqualification for at least 3 years for second offence within 10 years.
That's what the book says.
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No need to apologise to us Lincoln. You must have a strong head for booze if you thought you could get away with it, and don't think you were perhaps a bit slapdash in your reactions.
I don't know how judges deal with this sort of thing (variably one would think). But I would have thought if you didn't crash and no one was hurt or badly scared you might get away with a suspended prison sentence. Fine would be calculated on the basis of your income.
They don't want to fill the jails up with otherwise respectable people who have gone too far over a thing like this. But some judges are very naive and others are sadistic brutes. I hope you don't get one of those. Good luck.
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It will be dealt with at Magistrates so don't worry about Judges - the Clerk will settle the sentence.
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dealt with at Magistrates so don't worry about Judges
Sorry, ignorance.... same things apply though up to a point. I thought in view of the dosage a Crown Court might have to be involved.
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I know different parts of the country can do things differently, but i'd eat my sock if 'prison' is even mentioned. I do think though that an 18 month ban could be on the cards...and there will obviously be a fine.
I'm really glad the Mods have clamped down on the 'holier than though' brigade... we all do things that we can repent at leisure, (admittedly some have a better go at it than others)...;-)....but if someone is willing to come on here and discuss it with the right frame of mind, we ought to acknowledge that and be polite....many out there couldn't give a stuff and it wouldn't really worry them... and that's worrying, because they'll do it again and again.
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Thank you Westpig - the very reason we're clamping down on sanctimony.
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i would love to be sanctimonious. I cant as i got done for it 27 years ago.
4 times over the limit? I think thats wrong somewhere along the line, isnt that barely able to walk territory?
To the OP - your brief will keep you out of jail, no worries there. You will get a stiff fine and 18 months to 24 months ban.
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I think the main thing is a coping strategy for your depression. The driving ban is inevitable so worry about things you can influence, not things you can't.
Edited by Sofa Spud on 02/06/2009 at 23:31
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Write to the courts (via your solictor) highlighting your problems. Tell the courts what you have done to address them too. Involve your GP especially if he is aware of your depression before you made the error you have. Show true remorse.
Edited by Tron on 02/06/2009 at 23:36
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Wasn't there a senior traffic policeman who, having been stopped while several times the limit, claimed he was so drunk he didn't realise what he was doing?
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Your criminal record. if you acquire one, will prevent you from visiting USA. I would not personally regard that as a bad outcome but you may like the place.
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Your criminal record. if you acquire one will prevent you from visiting USA.
No it wont. It will prevent you from having visa exemption, but you can still apply for entry and you wont be refused on a DD conviction.
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I spent the last few days reading about various police forces summer drink drive campaigns. We will show no mercy in ridding our roads of this problem said the traffic supt in my area.
How ever, with the courts deciding that bans and fines will suffice, can't see the problem being beaten.
typo corrected before you're flamed !
Edited by Pugugly on 02/06/2009 at 23:54
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'Mercy' is a bit strong! What about discretion and/or judgement
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I think he was meaning that no excuses would be tolerated. Must be one of those ' supers ' with a degree.
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The outcome of this will depend quite a bit upon the magistrate you are put before. Be honest, remorseful and yourself (as you appear to have been here). If you are prone to expletives: don't swear in court! You or your lawyer should present the case as far as your paid and voluntary employment responsiblities go.
Regarding CRB checks, again it is a case of being honest and remorseful. Declare the offence when asked. Often more depends upon your presentation at interview and afterwards than offences committed in your early twenties.
Good to hear you went to your doctor when you felt you needed it. That's what they're there for.
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I don't drink now, but there have been more than a few occassions in my youth when a command to blow into the bag would have seen me as a pedestrian for 12 months. I would think many people my age could admit to the same.
I wouldn't worry about prison, the pressure on the courts now seem to be to avoid jail sentences where possible because of overcrowding.
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You've hired a lawyer so I would take his advice: he's probably familiar with the magistrates and may have a feel for sentencing policy and for how they will respond to someone who has become depressed and unable to eat because of worry and fear of prison.
No doubt OP will explain to the mags in what circumstances he'd drunk enough to blow 123mg and why, having drunk that much, he got back into his car. I'd have thought that would influence sentencing.
What happened Lincoln?
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Lincoln, thank you for being open and honest about what has happened. You're doing the right thing already by seeing your doctor regarding depression, if alcohol is a problem for you then please discuss that with your doctor as well. Depression can impair a persons judgement and can also lead to excessive drinking so it's worth discussing whilst dealing with any health issues, including insomnia.
Regarding alternative transport, is it possible for you use public transport or a taxi to get around were you to be banned from driving ? Is there someone who could provide lifts for you ?
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Thanks for all your comments chaps. And for those who have a negative opinion on me I don't blame you. I'm not too impressed with myself either. But what i will say, is one times or four times over the legal limit.... it's still over the limit. I didn't harm anyone (although realise I could of and am very sorry for what I did) I was simply drunk and driving my car. I really don't see how some of you can chastise me regarding the amount i was over compared to someone who may have only been over by twice the limit... does that make it less of a crime?
To be honest... my motto is, if i'm driving i don't even have one beer. I don't see the point. However it turns out (after a days drinking and celebrating with family) i'd had so much beer I wasn't thinking about anything it appears.
What started it off (and this isn't a reason, excuse or make my actions seem any less serious)... is that day i'd had an argument with the GF and in my mind (stupidly, foolishly I know...) i wanted to patch things up with her, why oh why I decided to drive however I cannot figure out.
It was a stupid mistake, which wont happen again. And to be fair I think if I was slightly less 'blottoed' I would have had enough working brain cells not to drive my car at all.
A foolish drunken error which I expect to pay for.
Once again thank you to all those who commented.
Link.
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also I feel it's important to mention I don't have a drinking problem. It was simply a case of too much drinking on that day and one very bad decision.
thanks.
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Regarding CRB checks
The type of the information declared or disclosed on a CRB (enhanced or otherwise) is down to the discretion of the data controller and is usually governed by the type of employment the person is applying for.
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Don't forget to take your licence with you to hand in to the court.
A small point, but it shows you are already taking responsibility for your actions.
Your ban begins the moment the magistrate says it does, so you can drive to the court, but not away from it, so make appropriate arrangements.
You will not go to prison, but you should expect a large bill.
The bench will accept instalments, but will want it paid off within a year.
How much? I'll take a guess at about £850, assuming average income.
Make sure you are in a position to make a reasonable offer, it again shows you are thinking about and taking responsibility for your actions.
It was a good move hiring a local solicitor, they 'know' their magistrates and can therefore present your case in the most attractive manner.
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This has already been a high maintenance thread, and as Lincoln already has the best of advice available here, and has been back to collect the thoughts, and I can see this thread only going one way from here, I am going to lock this thread.
Lincoln - do please come back and let us know how you got on. If you would contact the Moderators (use the Report Message as Offensive button in any thread) and quote the address of this thread (www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=75518), we can unlock it for you to update.
Lincoln, I hope you find the help from here useful and that you manage to satisfactorily re-arrange your life and work around whatever sentence is handed down.
smokie, Moderator
Edited by smokie on 03/06/2009 at 09:37
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For all those who are interested/commented on last thread.
(Once again I have apologised and am sorry for what I did, it won't happen again, no lectures please).
> Solicitor Fees - £1,035
> Court Fees - £70
> Disqualification 28 Months (reduced to 21 Months if 16 hours DD course is taken)
> Community Service: 200 Hours!
About me: 22yrs old, no previous convictions, same job since leaving college, provide voluntary work on a Tue & Wed evening.
Moral of the story, DO NOT DRINK AND DRIVE, it turns your life upside down! Lost Job and GF for one stupid mistake!
Based on my current circumstances does anyone think I should appeal against the 200 hour community service? I realise It was a high reading, but noboady hurt, never been in trouble before, one stupid mistake!
Thanks
Link
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to be fair you were 3 times over the limit, your lucky you are not in jail, however if you had refused a blood and or a breath test point blank you would of got away with 12 month ban and £300 fine probably
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No slammer though Lincoln, quite rightly as no actual harm was done.
Only your lawyer can tell you whether to appeal against any part of the sentence.
Sorry about your job. I must say the GF has not shown very sterling qualities.
In my youth, which went on until surprisingly close to middle age, I must several times have been that drunk or drunker, and got into trouble for it too. But never thank goodness in a car. Didn't have a car when I was your age. Otherwise might have been much worse...
Courage! You're only 22. It'll soon be over. Perhaps the community service might have an interesting side, lead to something or other?
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If I was in your situation I probably would do the community service because (a) it might lead to something job wise -depends what they ask you to do and more importantly (b) if it did not then it can be used to backup how humble you now are without a licence.
Thanks for reporting back on the outcome. I am sure there are many that drive in the morning that are over the limit from the night before. Not as much over but over all the same. So a reminder why we should not drink at all and later drive.
Rob
Edited by rtj70 on 09/06/2009 at 02:08
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It is isn't worth the risk, if I got banned then I would not have as much to loose as you have done but its still not worth it. For this reason I never drive on Sundays now I just point blank refuse. When I became a motorists I had to make a decision on a saturday night, drink less or don't drive on a Sunday. I so I still get drunk and drink all the my trouble away on the dance floor but I am very glad I didn't have a car in my student days as it meant I could go out a lot during the week get very drunk and never mind the consquences.
I don't know what you're background is but if I hadn't gone to university at 22 and suddenly found I had lost a lot of things I would consider it, go away to for three years get a degree when you come back your ban will be over :).
If not then I would even consider moving abroad on one of them work experience things.
The worst thing you could probably do is stay at work kicking yourself while trying to sort out your life.
Do you have to retake your test after the ban or do you just get your licence back?
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and dont forget the offence stays on the licence for 11 years , so start saving now for your deposit on a very heavy insurance premium should you wish to get behind the wheel again
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IMO, dont appeal, and take the DD course.
As I tried to say before, you are lucky you have only lost what you have......
Before deleting this Mods.... please read......
A bit about me... at age 22 I was on a motorbike, I set aside one day a week to go drinking, and left the bike at home the following day.
I then got a car, went drinking one friday night, took the car out saturday afternoon, VERY nearly wrapped it around a lamp post.
A number of years later, a close family member was ill in hospital, I was feeling very down - had a couple of pints.
got a phone call. family member only has an hour or so - get here quick.
by the time I had sorted transport... I was 15 mins too late.
I have also lost good friends due to drink driving - it hits you hard when you go to work and you see the remains of your friends car in the back compound.........
Lincoln, I truly hope you have learnt your lesson, Its never an easy one, but it could have been harder, and I apologise to all for having such strong feelings on this subject.
BTW... I do drink... but not much if I MAY need to drive.
Edited by the swiss tony on 09/06/2009 at 06:46
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...should I appeal the community hours...
A few things to bear in mind:
An appeal will be heard at the crown court.
It's another hearing when the whole sorry saga will be ventilated in public again - do you want that?
You don't mention any concerns over local publicity, but the appeal is another chance for your story to appear in the local press.
The appeal tribunal - a judge and two magistrates - can increase your sentence as well as reduce it, or leave it as it is.
I'd be inclined to get me head down and do the hours.
As another post says, community work can lead to proper work.
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This arrived in my inbox earlier today and I was asked if I could post it on behalf of the person who emailed me. I've been asked to also pass this email onto the OP.
-----------------------------------------------------------
A note to the OP who blew 122mg.
I blew 118mg before Xmas (and had similar problems to the OP).
Exactly same as the OP, no points, clean licence for 17 years.
I got a 24 month ban, 1 years Probation and a 16 week Drink Impaired Drivers Course (DIDP).
I can highly recommend the DIDP course, it's a pain to attend but it gives you time to reflect on the reasons why you 'offended' (I was originally very cynical about this course!) and it's not generally available for first time offenders but it removed my requirement for Community Service/Fine.
Also ask for the HAPAS course as this will take 25% off your ban therefore reducing mine to 18 months.
As people stated, no need to get all sanctimonious, I did wrong, I accept that and thank goodness I didn't kill/injure anyone else.
Depression is a serious illness and can make you view the world in a very illogical way....glad you're getting some help.
Take Care
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 10/06/2009 at 00:12
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Not new really, but felt for Lincoln and his predicament, but unable to post a message of sympathy. Been through this with my daughter, similar age and charged at a reading of 41. No excuses the law is absolute. She was an instructor with the cadet force and needed transport to do this as well as get to work etc. She also drove the company mini-bus for regular weekends away, but it cut no ice. The solicitor was good and her commanding officer gave a brilliant character reference. She was banned for 9 months on condition she attended a drink awareness course. Since then she has had to pay high insurance premiums, never hire a car and was refused a good job because of her conviction. As the saying goes "when one door shuts, another slams in your face". But all that is now just a distant memory and she never drinks and drives at all. Do your best in court, they do listen and can extend some leniency if you show genuine remorse. There is light at the end of the tunnel and it isn't the end of the world and soon this will all be in the past, but remember how bad it feels and resolve never to feel this way again. Chin up and the very best of luck. Concrete.
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...but felt for Lincoln and his predicament...
I think he posted the result of his court appearance a few days ago, but the thread seems to have vanished.
Unless I'd had one too many when I thought I saw it. :)
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Its here. www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=75...5
...but if I click on 'view flat', I can't find the RESULTS post. Is it me?
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but if I click on 'view flat', I can't find the RESULTS post. Is it me? >>
No, it is not only you. When the thread was locked 09 Jun 09 23:11 , the last post by Lincoln at Tue 9 Jun 09 00:05 also got hidden somehow from normal view.
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?f=2&t=75...8
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he blew 123mg, and got:
Solicitor Fees - £1,035
> Court Fees - £70
> Disqualification 28 Months (reduced to 21 Months if 16 hours DD course is taken)
> Community Service: 200 Hours
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Does that mean he wasn't fined, or is he including the fine in the solicitor's fee?
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As an aside I see that he lost his GF. If she wouldn't stand by him she is no loss IMO, plus he can find another one, at his age.
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We locked the original thread because he got the advice he asked for and we didn't want debates on the outcome. So this thread will be merged with the original. And therefore will be locked.
Rob (Moderator)
Edited by rtj70 on 11/06/2009 at 18:02
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I got an email from Lincoln yesterday, asking if I could post the following on his behalf (as the thread is locked):
"can you let everyone know that I got the following...
28 months ban (reduced to 21 months when doing course)
200 hours community service"
Sorry Lincoln for forgetting to post this yesterday. DD.
EDIT - looks like this was what was hidden from view above, which is why Lincoln asked me to post it
EDIT once more - have now sorted out the problem of half the messages in this thread being hidden. Hopefully the relevant ones should now be visible again to all and not just the moderators
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 11/06/2009 at 20:26
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