96 1.9 Heavy steering. Can it be made lighter? - GeordieGuy
Hi There!
I run an old diesel 405 - in fact, I'm now on my fourth. I like the uncomplicated layout and ease of maintenance of these old oil-burners. However, my only niggle is that the steering is very heavy - even with PS. I was wondering whether there might be some after-market device, replacement unit etc which might alleviate the problem. Or, indeed, whether the PS is a bit of a duffer on these anyway - I can't recall others having such a problem.
I'm happy to throw money at the problem above and beyond the value of the vehicle itself. I really don't want to replace it with something newer, however practical this might be.
Anyway, if you've got this far and you think you have an observation on this then I'd appreciate your reply!!

{header amended to reflect the question being asked}

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 13/05/2009 at 22:27

96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - bathtub tom
Belt fitted?

Is it tight?

PAS fluid level?

How much difference is there between the force required to turn the steering when stationary (not usually recommended) with the engine off and with it running?
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - GeordieGuy
Oh, the difference is considerable without engine running. However, the PAS remains considerably heavier than any equivalent model of the day that I'm familiar with.
Belt & fluids seem OK ...
Thanks for reply!
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - bathtub tom
Perhaps like me, you're getting old. ;>)
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - GeordieGuy
Well, there is that as well .....! Age is a cruel master.
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - focusman
hi
try 3 weetabix
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - piston power
Is the tyre pressure correct not too flat?

Is the suspension ok worn shocks broken springs will make it heavier.
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - Peter.N.
I reckon that the diesel 405 is the best value for money car that you can get, I have got several estates for friends of mine, in fact if the supply of XM,s was to dry up, I would run one myself.

To the point. Have you tried jacking it up and turning the wheels? if its still heavy you have a mechanical problem, dry ball joints, tight rack? but I suspect you will find it as light as a feather in which case I would suggest you try some different tyres, even the ammount of tread can have a marked effect. Try swapping the front's with the rears. It could be that you have a fault in the power steering but it is ususal. Have you checked the tightness of the pump drive belt?
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - GeordieGuy
Brilliant responses so far ... am rolling my sleeves up now (and having an extra weetabix) to check Peter's suggestions.
I agree, re the 405 being one of the best estates - and great for DIY if you change the oil & keep an eye on the coolant and that old head gasket problem. I've run mine for pennies, so I won't be swapping it for the £2k scrappage deal.
Thanks ... keep them coming!
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - Dave_TD
You haven't got my old red 405 Style 1.9 estate have you? The plate began P207 and ended in a V...
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - GeordieGuy
No, sorry. I'm not the owner of your red Style 405. I did have a Non-Turbo Style before this which went on for ever! Good ones are hard to find now ...
If I can't fix this PAS, is there another vehicle out there which has the engineering simplicity of these vehicles - old or merely middle-aged. I don't mind what I pay, particularly.
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - bell boy
put a pair of new tyres on it (oh you might have to put 4 on or some members will make you put the new ones on the back ;-( ) anyway,its amazing what new boots do on old feet
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - GeordieGuy
"put a pair of new tyres on it anyway,its amazing what new boots do on old feet"

Any particular type of tyre .. one with less resistance or merely any new pair. Not sure of the logic, but I'm happy to have a go!
Thanks
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - GeordieGuy
Or, isn't there some kind of after-market kit/replacement I can use to make the PAS more efficient?
Oh well, back to the weetabix!
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - jc2
Fit a bigger steering wheel;ie.from a non-Pas vehicle.
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - bell boy
just a new pair
its amazing how many cars are transformed with new boots
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - Peter.N.
If you have a local friendly tyre firm, ask if you can feel all the tyres of that size that they have. What you need is the softest carcass, not the walls but the tread, try pushing the middle of the tread in.

Some years ago I bought a diesel 205 for my mother, she liked except for the heavy steering, I did as above and it transformed it.
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - GeordieGuy
OK thanks, have Pirelli tyres on at the moment. The PAS was just as difficult before these were fitted a year or so ago. I'm not sure whether the tyre fitters will let me squeeze their rubber, but it's worth a go. Not sure I'd know what I was looking at. Unless, of course, anyone could give me a head-start by suggesting appropriate manufacturers.
This all my sound like a whim, but I had a bad whiplash injury years ago and this is aggravated by the heavy steering.
Again, I appreciate the replies!
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - GeordieGuy
PS ... Sorry to keep banging on this this, BUT .....
Would alloys make a difference? I've got steel rims and just wondered whether it might be worth trawling Ebay for some alloys as these should be lighter?!
Thanks in anticipation. You've all be very patient!
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - jc2
No.
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - focusman
hi
have you tried calling a power steering specialist.
they may have already done such a thing for someone else, do know the in's and out's but would a rack and pump off a 406 or 407 fit. would it improve what you have already.
they may have the answer
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - Peter.N.
Does seem a bit odd, I have driven a number of these vehicles and have always found the steering very pleasant, there may be a problem with it, short of changing the rack and pump I can't see really how you are going to be able to tell. You could start with the pump, that's relatively easy.
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - bathtub tom
Isn't the level of assistance determined by the size of the orifice in the valves?

Perhaps a previous owner didn't like it being so light, and changed something to give it more weight?

I would've thought that generally speaking, alloys would carry fatter, lower profile tyres, requiring more energy to turn them.
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - GeordieGuy
Thanks again.

I thought the pump either worked or it didn't. I assume it doesn't slowly lose its effectiveness. I'm clearly out of my depth here, so will have to get my cheque book out and take your advice - I Will be visiting a PAS specialist if the new tyre thing doesn't work.
Going to tyre outlet to ask for 'soft' tyres ....!

All replies really appreciated.
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - bell boy
just go to tyre place
tell nice mr you want new tyres because your car drives horrible on the ones you have
he puts cheap new on,no more needed
he blows them to the recommended pressure (make sure of this)
you drive off happy as an easter bunny
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - Dynamic Dave
just wondered whether it might be worth trawling Ebay for some alloys as these should be lighter?!


Alloys will be heavier than the steel rims.
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - jc2
The ones you see on rally/racing cars are magnesium alloy;the ones you see for sale are aluminium alloy which are usually heavier than a steel wheel of equivalent size.
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - Peter.N.
As already mentioned, alloys will probably be fitted with low profile tyres which will not only make the steering heavier but will give a dreadful ride - don't do it.
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - bell boy
might also be worth jacking car up
disconnecting track rod ends
seeing if ball joint (s) seized
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - oldnotbold
Almost all the later 405TDs came with alloys, but the same tyre/size as the steel rims.

Edited by oldnotbold on 15/05/2009 at 16:08

96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - GeordieGuy
Thanks again. If I'm armed with the pointers you've given I stand more chance of getting some straight answers from the garage.
I did try to run this past the tyre centre, but they seem to think I might be mad. They said my pirelli tyres were already made from a fairly soft compound - which would make sense. However, I'm going to change these in first instance anyway.

Have printed off all your comments ... thanks again!!
96 1.9 Is This a Silly Question? - vmturbo

There is bound to be a relief valve somewhere on the pump which determines the maximum hydraulic pressure hence the amount of power assistance.

Knowing how many strikes the car factories in France used to have; French cars will often be a pick-and-mix of components from different suppliers. Speedometers for example might be Jaeger or Veglia.

What if there was two brands of steering rack and two brands of power steering pump? If one type of rack needed a higher pressure than the other type of rack this might explain a few things.

A good check on steering that is easy to do just needs a large level empty car park that has no obstructions. Drive the car slowly at full lock then let go of the steering wheel. The wheel should spin back to the straight ahead position by itself. If the wheel does not spin back there is definitely a fault such as seized binding ball joints or other seized components. Try the test on both right and left full lock. On some cars the bottom ball joints only last for 30,000 miles before they are in a bad way but for "sealed for life" to work, the grease, the rubber and the steel all need to be to Milspec . Potholes and sunken road drains don't help matters either. OK the Peugeot 405 uses Macpherson struts but nothing lasts forever.

Good luck but it might just be a case of needing three Weetabix!