There's a difference from being an immoral person (whatever that is) and working in a profession were there is sometimes pressure to a) reduce warranty claims from the manufacturer and b) increase work generated outside of warranty to keep dealers profits up, especially with generally more reliable cars and longer service intervals.
In those circumstances, even the most decent ordinary people are going to push as hard as possible against doing some warranty jobs and do other non-warranty work that might not be strictly required.
And then there's that good old fashioned problem common to any line of work, simple incompetence. Just how good are the front line desk staff at communicating symptoms to technicians, as described by the customer? Not very, as I've often seen. Half the time they don't even bother to write down (in detail) what you've told them.
Add to that variable quality of technicians that are often used to doing little more than changing oil and filters for most of their working lives (and therefore poor at complex problem solving), and it's not hard to see why so many of us grumble so much!
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I'm just surprised that so many members of the general public set themselves up as being superior to car dealers' employees. If they knew what other people thought of them they might change their attitude.
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Dealers employees might be suprised at what some customers think about them. At the end of the day, who pays their wages?
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I'm just surprised that so many members of the general public set themselves up as being superior to car dealers' employees.
Not at all. When I was once young and naive I used to think main dealers were like gods. Unfortunately it has only been through multiple, consistent poor experiences have my views been changed to a more cynical direction. When I do find the odd employee at a dealer who appears to be genuine and determined in doing a good job for me, the customer, then you can rest assured I give them all the respect they very much deserve.
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> How good are the front line desk staff at communicating symptoms to technicians..
Never rely on desk staff to convey anything - write down what you want done, and any symptoms and other info needed. If you need to make gestures or noises, ask to do it to the technician. That should reduce the risk of unrequested work being done.
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It has to be remembered there are good and bad in all trades and all parts of trades.
In my area I know of good, poor, bad and terrible quality dealers.
I work for myself because I want to have my quality of work measured and affected by nobody else but me. Dealers who employ more people (and the poorer ones employ more because the staff dont stay long) dont have that luxury.
But generally, the poor ones are fairly easily spotted by the quality of the person on the service reception desk. Is it somebody who understands a car and its problems or is it a person who is good at fronting/selling? I will let you judge which is which for quality!
In the workshop at a typical dealer, (depends on size obvioulsy) but there is likely to be 1 experienced mech who gets all the awkward work, and the awkward customers, and the diagnostics. Then there are 1 or 2 semi skilled who get to the meaty interesting jobs like clutches and non run of the mill jobs. Then finally there are 1 or 2 apprentices who do virtually all of the servicing (at top rate prices obviously). These are the ones generally inluenced by the bonus systems, and with the most opportunities to influence it. Again i wil leave you to work out how they may be able to influence it!
But if your happy with them its not a problem.
Most independant traders (not all) were likley trained at a dealers (so they have the skills required) but go out to work for themselves because they dont like various aspects of dealers attitudes and policies; its not just money either. Most will not make as much on their own for the first couple of years compared to the rates thery are paid at dealers.
And some people dont like independants either!
But the good news is that there is room, and work (currently), for both sets!
Edited by yorkiebar on 24/02/2009 at 18:47
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This is one of those threads that fill me with horror. BR's talk about "a good local indie", but how on earth do I know? The only main dealer within miles for my make of car on this site's "good garages" turned up on a Google search to have been prosecuted by Trading Standards for not renewing brake fluid when they said they had.
L'Escargot, can you give a hint about where your good Ford dealer is?
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"BR's talk about "a good local indie", but how on earth do I know? "
A good indicator of a good indie is
1 Recommended by friends or others
2 Booked in advance for at least 1 week!
A good indicator of a good dealer (imo) is to talk about a problem with the service receptionist.
hth
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when you make eye contact with the receptionist - back off if `three lemons` come up - followed by two £ signs.
Edited by oilrag on 24/02/2009 at 19:19
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when you make eye contact with the receptionist - back off if `three lemons` come up - followed by two £ signs.
I tried very hard to maintain eye-contact with the receptionist at my local dealer but it was hard with such an impressive cleavage on display. Didn't know where to look.
Turned out she knew next to nothing about anything. I wondered why they employed her.
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> Back off if `three lemons` come up ..
> It was hard with such an impressive cleavage on display.
That would have been two grapefruits then? :-(
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L'Escargot can you give a hint about where your good Ford dealer is?
My previous Ford dealer, which was just as good (and because of its greater size had better facilities) was Ringways at Doncaster. Servicing could be watched being carried out via a window between the showroom and the workshop so there was never any doubt as to what work had been done or which items had been worked on. By prior arrangement, immediately before a service the vehicle would be put on a hoist and the vehicle inspected in your presence by a Service Advisor. He was totally honest about what was found, and wouldn't try to force any extra work onto you. He checked the brake fluid boiling point and based brake fluid changes on that rather than on preset intervals. Wearing items such as tyres and brake pads were inspected. Mechanical soundness of items visible from the underside were checked. On one occasion we discussed a hole in the outer casing of the rear silencer and he agreed that it didn't affect the silencing efficiency and hence didn't require any action at that point.
They had a Rapid Fit centre in which tyres (and other items) were as cheap as anywhere else in the area. In addition, of course, they used genuine Ford parts.
Because I bought the car from them I was given a 10% discount on all servicing, spares and accessories. Doing business with Ringways was a totally enjoyable experience.
www.ringways.co.uk/ford/
Edited by L'escargot on 25/02/2009 at 05:12
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www.ringways.co.uk/ford/
Because their good service was so comprehensive it was inevitable I would forget something.
Service department receptionists were knowledgeable, but if any clarification did happen to be required they would get the workshop foreman to come to the reception desk.
Edited by L'escargot on 25/02/2009 at 05:22
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>> www.ringways.co.uk/ford/
And finally, every item and charge on the invoice was explained to you before you paid so you left the premises without any doubts whatsoever.
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Thanks, L'escargot. Unfortunately I'm a long way from Doncaster. But the checklists are useful.
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>>People who choose to work at a franchised dealer are just ordinary people, just like anyone who chooses to work for any other employer.
I take your point Snail, but in a badly managed dealership - and there are many - those with integrity and ability don't stay long. Yes, most people are honest, but like a fish, a business rots from the head and if the management are careerist spivs the customer will be ripped off. You or I would only stay in such a workplace for as long as it took us to find another job.
People who should be able to concentrate on 'service', what's best for the customer, are often pressured into being sales people. The workshop/service manager is under pressure to book work in and get his turnover up, the service receptionist has a target for selling air conditioning antibacterial treatment and fuel system cleaner, the technician is paid a bonus for beating the book times. The sales manager has a target for extended warranties, paint protection at hyper-inflated prices, and expensive gap insurance. None of these incentives works in favour of the customer - the workshop manager and sales manager probably report their figures weekly or at the most monthly, so the idea of building up trust and a reputation for quality work, good advice and attention to detail doesn't pay - it takes too long.
Sure, they issue questionnaires so they can monitor what customers think of them - but provided that they can keep the customer sweet with enough BS they can still get good marks. They don't need to do a good job, they just need the customer to believe they have.
Many years ago I worked in a bank. Pre-1978 when I left, it had a slightly condescending attitude to its customers if they wanted a loan, but there was great emphasis on accuracy, speedy service, and total integrity. I left around the time that those in contact with the public started getting targets for insurance, wills and investment products. Managers were targeted to collect more 'fees' for interviews, granting overdrafts, and returning cheques. The spivs prospered, those with too much of a conscience found themselves being 'performance managed'.
There are still businesses where integrity prevails - but they are generally small and privately run.
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Back in the late 70s I had a Saab 99 which needed a new clutch. Haynes manual said "special tool required". Went to a Saab dealer and spoke to their mechanic (no such thing as "Reception Desks" in those days! "Yes, there is a special tool, but there's way round it. This is what you do......"
Changed the entire clutch in 30 minutes. The "special tool" was replaced by a piece of thick rope to jam the clutch springs in the open position while it was being removed / replaced.
Bought the mechanic a botle of scotch!
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