Sat Nav Questions and Answers Vol 3 - Pugugly {P}

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Edited by Webmaster on 23/06/2008 at 20:01

Binatone X350 - any views? - movilogo
Does anyone use Binatone X350? It is now available for just £80 and only 6 (out of 6) reviews in Amazon recommend it.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 28/12/2007 at 11:56

What Car? Best Sat Nav - drbe
What Car? has tested sat navs and has decided that in the :-

Under £150 category TomTom 1 3rd edition is Best buy; runner-up Mio C220; also recommended Clarion MAP 370, Garmin nuvi 200.

£150 to £250 Clarion MAP670 is Best buy; runner-up Sony NV-U92T; also recommended Panasonic Strada CN-GP50M, Medion GoPal E3410.

Over £250 TomTom Go 720 is Best buy; runner-up Mio C520t; also recommended Garmin Nuvi 660 FM, Navman S90i.
What Car? Best Sat Nav - rtj70
And you can get a TomTom 720 for £180 at the moment online, e.g. Halford, Amazon and Dixons.

So if the TT 720 is best for over £250, and you can buy in a Halford store for £223 or a lot less online... it is therefore the best in the £150-£250 category as well ;-)

Edited by rtj70 on 02/01/2008 at 16:59

What Car? Best Sat Nav - oilrag
Just bought a Garmin Nuvi 250 with full Europe maps for £139.

I`ve been using units with Navteq maps for a while and didn`t want to move away from them.
The Continental Hotels POI database now having telephone numbers was an unexpected bonus.

Disposable though at this price... I can`t believe that I paid £1,500 for a built in car sat nav a few years ago and then £200+ for a set of Europe maps.
What Car? Best Sat Nav - CGNorwich
Just bought a Garmin Nuvi 250 with full Europe maps for £139

Now 114.90 on Amazon - but don't feel too bad - I paid 149.99 a few months back.

I really like the Garmin for its simplicity and the fact that it has the latest NAVTEQ mapping that covers all of Europe , not just the West. I really don't undertand the pricing of in-car sat nav at all

What Car? Best Sat Nav - rtj70
I have literally (in the last 30 minutes) gone and bought a TomTom 720 - I prefer TomTom as I've used it for 4 years and originally had the original Navman software... no debate needed. Other sat navs great too.

Could have got it for £180 online with delivery but for a little more got it in a shop. Ordered online for collection.... okay it cost £19.99 more but I have it now ;-) Impressed so far.

Six or seven satellites locked on in the middle of the house! My old Navman BT GPS unit might work next to a window ;-)
What Car? Best Sat Nav - David Horn
Bought a Sony U53 for £129.99 at Christmas, only to discover it couldn't remember the time. Phoned Sony on the 27th, and had a U73 (with TMC and full European mapping) on my doorstep the next day. Can't complain about customer service like that.

I'd put the Sony leagues ahead of the TomTom One - the mount is fantastic (it'll stick to the dashboard too and doesn't leave marks on the windscreen), and it reads out road numbers. Even the display dims automatically so you don't get dazzled at night.
What Car? Best Sat Nav - oilrag
Does anyone know if the camera POI`s on the Garmin 250 are legal in France? I would prefer them all off the database, is this possible?

(Sorry Pugugly, for a double post and a similar thread I dont mind if you modify that and put it here)


Edited by oilrag on 02/01/2008 at 20:46

What Car? Best Sat Nav - drbe
I have literally (in the last 30 minutes) gone and bought a TomTom 720 -


Did you consider a TomTom 520? Is there any significant difference between the 720 and the 520?
What Car? Best Sat Nav - rtj70
"Did you consider a TomTom 520? Is there any significant difference between the 720 and the 520?"

What apart from maps of Europe which cost more than the difference in price. or the fact the 720 has 2Gb of internal memory instead of the 512Mb of the UK only 520.
What Car? Best Sat Nav - Martin Devon
"Did you consider a TomTom 520? Is there any significant difference between the 720 and
the 520?"

Hi rtj, what difference is there between a 720 and a 720 t?

What Car? Best Sat Nav - Martin Devon
And you can get a TomTom 720 for £180 at the moment online e.g. Halford
Amazon and Dixons.

£254.00 At Halfords right now it seems. VBR MD
TomTom 720 - extra maps - Armitage Shanks {p}
I am well pleased with my TomTom 720, so far. However, because I am going on a specific motoring holiday I have bought a map of the European Alps. It exceeded the memory capacity of the device so I bought a 4 Gb SD card and I have the map stored on my computer and on the chip, which is in the 720. When I go to change maps I am offered West EU and Canaries (which came in the 720 as 2 maps) but I can't access the Alpine one which is on the chip. Any ideas over and above reading the manual which I have done but no result?! Thanks
TomTom 720 - extra maps - Dipstick
People have always had trouble with new technology, dividing into the "it's wonderful" and "humanity is doomed". It happened with calculators, it probably happened with phones, and indeed it happened with books, as can be seen here.

TomTom 720 - extra maps - rtj70
How you got on with the extra maps? To look at this for you without buying maps I moved the Canary Islands map to an SD-Card and TomTom sees it fine. I can switch to it with no problem and back to Western Europe.

Are you still having problems?
TomTom 720 - extra maps - rtj70
Actually don't you get coverage of the Alps with the TomTom 720 Western Europe Maps? Am I missing something here? Maybe you don't get shown the Alps because the device knows Western Europe is a superset.

TomTom site also has WE for only £10 more than the Alps. Of course Western Europe won't fit on a TomTom One GB 3rd Edition so the Alps makes sense.

Edited by rtj70 on 06/01/2008 at 22:50

TomTom 720 - extra maps - Armitage Shanks {p}
Very kind rtj70! I have got such a big expansion card (4GB) that I have put the complete contents of the TT internal memory onto it! I have also noted an obscure point in the handbook which says that the expansion card must have TT Home on it as well; I have done all this and still no joy. The map is on the card but I can't select it. The reason I bought the 2ns map is that I am going on an Alpine touring holiday in May and I thought the enhanced coverage might be useful, The standard map looks good but, having paid for the better one I would like to be able to use it. I have raised a technical query with the TT help desk and am awaiting comment
TomTom 720 - extra maps - rtj70
Didn't know the separate TomTom maps for the countries covered by the Alps would be more detailed. But I do know the map for Western Europe takes more space than Western and Central Europe.... so the latter has to have lost some detail somewhere to fit onto 2Gb memory. As the next stepup from 2Gb would normally be 4Gb - it's the way memory sizing works.

I am puzzled you cannot access the maps. All I copied to the memory card was the map for the Canary Islands for it to work. A compatibility issue? TomTom can take ages to respond so I would also check on's forums.
TomTom 720 - extra maps - Armitage Shanks {p}
Thanks again rjt70. I have until May to get the high def Alps map working but an earlier and similar problem was resolved by my TomTom and laptop spending half a day at the retailer's shop and some fine whisky (which I don't care for) changed hands!
TomTom Map Guarantee - rtj70
Not a question but some advice. Anyone who's bought a TomTom unit recently should take up the "Use Latest Map Guarantee" available via TomTom Home. Currently downloading the latest 1.7Gb of Western Europe maps now. The unit came with map version 7.5 but the latest is 7.10.
TomTom Map Guarantee - a900ss
LMG only should only apply for the first 30 days of ownership so if it was an Xmas pressie get in there quick!!!
TomTom Map Guarantee - Collos25
Just back from Germany where one of the largest electrical retailers Saturn is selling a Becker sat nav with full Europe cover lovely looking unit with mp3 player and photo viewer and the latest chip set for 99 euros.Tom Tom unit that is retailing in Halfords for £150 was 129 euros in Germany.
TomTom Map Guarantee - oilrag
What`s the difference in storage and how the maps are handled in current different makes and models?
The Garmin 250 I just bought seems to have one big `seamless` street level map of Europe on a hard drive, while my previous unit, a Medion pnda 100 has separate maps on an SD card.

TomTom Map Guarantee - rtj70
Years ago (e.g. TomTom 5 pre the GO days) if you had maps of Europe they were separate. Now if you say went for Western Europe they are one big map. You can also add separate maps to internal storage and an SD Card if supported.

The latest TomTom's all store their maps on internal flash memory. The amount of memory depends on the maps it needs to hold.

- For GB only units they have 512Mb (some regional units have 1Gb because the country map is too big to fit on the 512Mb with the TomTom software)
- For European units it can vary. The lower end ones come with 1Gb and less detailed maps. TomTom 720/920 come with 2Gb and more detailed maps

Also TomTom One v3's do not have an SD-Card slot unlike the XL and even the old One v2. So if you have the GB one you have only 512Mb memory. They also cannot connect to a mobile phone for GPRS connection for traffic.

The Go's (520, 720 and 920) of course also can control a Bluetooth mobile. And cost only a small amount more. And have an FM transmitter.

TomTom Map Guarantee - oilrag
Thanks RTJ ;)
TomTom Map Guarantee - Collos25
Slightly of subject but I just noticed the new Pug 407 with sat nav has a 32gb hard drive.Whatever will they put on that I have Sony with hard drive and it has all europe on it and thing its about 2gb and there is plenty of spare space.
TomTom Map Guarantee - rtj70
Music probably. The TomTom GO 910 actually had a 20Gb hard drive (the new 920 has 4Gb flash). The idea was to have music stored on it. The maps took a small fraction - less than 4Gb for USA&Canada and Western Europe.

Shame the TomTom has an SD card slot and not Compact flash. A company has just announced their 48Gb compact flash cards!!
TomTom Map Guarantee - colinh
32Gb SD cards were announced at CES last week - although I think there may be backwards-compatability problems (FAT32, etc. - or something!)
TomTom Map Guarantee - rtj70
Of course the TomTom GO 920 has 4GB flash memory and not the 2Gb I mention - it has USA & Canada maps as well as Western and Central Europe.

Just noticed on the TomTom site that Western and Central Europe maps for TomTom 700/910/920 is 2036Mb but only 1641Mb for the 720... it's either more compression or different map detail. But the name of the map for the 720 has 2GB added at the end so they are definately different.

And if you try changing the model to 520 you cannot get Western/Central Europe map. But why not if you stick in on a SD Card. In fact you could get the 920 version surely?

Edited by rtj70 on 08/01/2008 at 14:54

Confused About New Purchase - Robbie
I'm looking to buy a sat-nav system for the first time and I'm totally confused by the reviews that I've read.

MSN did an in depth review and rated the following: 1st Garmin 670 Nuvi; 2nd Navman S90i; 3rd Tom Tom 720. However, What Car put the Tom Tom 720 at the top, and the Garmin Nuvi and Navman S90 as third and fourth respectively.

Other reviews have criticised all three items, and on Pocket GPS World someone has written about serious issues with the latest Garmin products.

From all accounts the Teleatlas mapping is regarded as the best - used in the Navman products - but there have been issues about their accuracy, i.e. a couple of years out of date.

I'm currently torn between the Navman S90i and the Garmin Nuvi 660.

Would anyone care owning the above care to comment about them?

Edited by Robbie on 11/01/2008 at 17:47

Confused About New Purchase - rtj70
I'd go somewhere like Halfords to see a demo and a play. Then buy elsewhere or reserve on line and collect at Halfords. Also check out the TT 720.

One user might like a particular user interface and control and another might not. Halfords I think tend to push Garmin but get one you feel happy with.

Also consider the way it mounts in YOUR car(s). The TT 720 has a small but effective windscreen mount but they all leave tell tale signs to thieves. I've just upgrade my TT 720 mount with Velcro (TM) and now it sticks to the inside of the map pocket on the dash of the Mazda6. Couple seconds later no evidence.
Confused About New Purchase - Kiwi Gary
I would be a bit wary of Navman ongoing support just now. The company has been bought and sold twice in the past couple of years. I wanted to update my maps last year from a set only 2 years old, and discovered that Navman no longer support my model [ which came out just before the first sale]. I have found Navman to be very good around Europe { where I mainly use it }, but I use it for detailed navigation like getting me to the hotel from the last service stop on the way into a strange city, not very much in the inter-city routes where I use signposting quite satisfactorily.
TomTom 720 - A review - Altea Ego
I have just got a TomTom 720, delivered from Amazon. Out of the box it?s a nice solid feeling and well finished bit of kit. In the box is the device, a USB docking cradle, the windscreen mount, and a car charger.

The TT uses a program on the PC called TomTom home (more later) . Connect this to the TT and it logs onto TT central and makes any updates. Mine updated the basic programme and the satellite quick finder file. It comes with a 30 day latest map guarantee (more later)

The screen mount has a short cranked/angled arm, and its very easy to get a good, vibration free position on the screen. The TT powered/charged by the USB plug and powers up and locates satellites almost instantly.
In use it is quite superb. The TT interface is without doubt the best and easiest to use.
It is accurate on the road to about a metre judging by where the side roads are. Directions are clear ( I have the Aussie voice) and timely repeated where required. Volume is a little low as the speaker faces the windscreen, but mostly its not bad,

Entering addresses is easy (full 7 digit post code when you select the UK part of the one big street level map of Western Europe) and roads house numbers drop down in subsequent choices. It is has the ability to display your speed and along side the speed limit of the road you are on. Exceed this speed and you can make it squawk a warning at you. (The road speed limit is patchy though, A roads and motorways only, and not in heavy urban areas)

All in all I can?t fault its primary role as sat nav.

This one also has hands free bluetooth phone integration, that downloads your address book, will computer voice read out your text messages, allows entry of DTMF tones after you dial your number (so you can log into your voicemail, or join that teleconf) Apart from poor the hands free mike this is the best bluetooth hands free implementation I have used.

The TT has 4 sound output feeds- HiFi bluetooth, jack, Internal speaker, or car radio FM transmitter. Any of the sources (voice commands, warnings or MP3 player) can be directed to any output individually. Warnings yes it has voice warnings for POIs or cameras or you can record your own.

Now to the POI?s speed camera bit. The TT speed camera database (you get a 30 days trial) for the UK is, quite frankly, appalling. Cameras indicated where there has never been any, huge swathes missing, late warnings - the list goes on. They have been deleted. Instead the excellent pocket gps world speed camera POI overlay has been added and the device now gives me voice warnings of what camera type it is, and what the speed limit is. Other POI?s of interest (there are tens of thousands available on PGPSW) have been added.

I have just updated the map using the free 30 day map guarantee ( a big 1.7gb download so it takes a while!) So I may be able to comment on the latest map accuracy after some months of use.

I researched this before I took the jump to buy, So I had the latest version of TT home installed off the web site before I plugged the device in, and I have done backups of the device before I change anything. So far its all been flawless.

Finally I have replaced the map curser with a picture of the Altea I took and sized down. How cool is that! I might invest in the TMC receiver kit at a later date.

All in all at 180 quid delivered to the door, I could kiss it. Its fabulous.

moved into satnav q&a as an useful reference for those seeking a SatNav

Edited by Pugugly {P} on 20/01/2008 at 19:33

TomTom 720 - A review - Pugugly {P}
Don't kiss it or it will lie to you.

I have a iPOD adapter (genuine TT) for one of these if you're interested.
TomTom 720 - A review - Altea Ego
Knock on my back door PU.
TomTom 720 - A review - rtj70
The iPod cable works well - I bought one in Halfords for £7.99. But I've also stuck a 2Gb memory card in to hold a fair bit of music.

You forgot to mention it plays MP3 files/audio books. Transmitting this via the built in FM transmitter has worked well for me. It will mute music for warnings etc.

If anyone starts thinking of using comic or other non computer voices you will lose the Text To Speach facility which works well. It will read road names, road signs, say whatever words you want for POI warnings etc. And don't worry the computer voices sound real.

You can also record your own voice onto the unit for directions etc. But this is not a computer voice - you can tell the difference because the computer voices are over 40Mb each.

I agree with Altea Ego and will say I am very pleased with this. I was making do with either my N70 phone with TT5 or a PDA with TT5. But the new version 7 software is great and the GPS signal can be picked up indoors!

TomTom 720 - A review - Altea Ego
You forgot to mention it plays MP3 files/audio books. Transmitting this via the built in
FM transmitter has worked well for me. It will mute music for warnings etc.

Well a 500 mile three day road trip has given TomTom a full work out.

I didnt buy it for the MP3 player, but I loaded up a sd card with a shed load of music and set up the FM transmitter. It is without doubt the best in car FM trnasmitter I have used, It is powerful enough to knock out any station bleed on your chosen frequency and sounds pretty good. Certainly good enough for in car use.

With pocketggpsworlld camera database giveing me spoken alerts of camera type and speed limit, the Bluetooth answering my phone and reading out my texts, and pausing the music so it can do so, I am nothing short of delighted.

I am even more delighted in the fact that have now put the price back up to £234.90 so I saved a massive £54 on this thanks to DD's spotting it.
TomTom 720 - A review - scouseford
Very interesting. I have recently invested in a Garmin 250W and am similarly impressed. So far it has been faultless in getting me from A to B (albeit that I have only used it on routes with which I am familiar) and it has warned me of several local safety (ie speed) cameras of which I had no previous knowledge.

However, yesterday I noticed a police speed trap (a slim camera on a very flimsy looking tripod) on the other side of a local dual carriageway and thought that I would put my Garmin to the test. I went to the next junction and deliberately drove back through the trap to see if my new toy would give me a warning. Zilch!

Are these temporary cameras incapable of being picked up by GPS devices and, that being the case, just which cameras are detectable?

Incidentally the trip computer function on the Garmin is superb.
TomTom 720 - A review - rtj70
"Are these temporary cameras incapable of being picked up by GPS devices and, that being the case, just which cameras are detectable"

The GPS units do not detect a camera. The sat nav unit has a list of Points of Interest (that happen to be speed cameras) and you get warned when near them. So the warning is only available if the unit knows of the camera. Like the TomTom ones it sounds like Garmin does not update.

The best/cheap source of speed cameras as Altea Ego says is It gets updated by the likes of you and me so we all make in accurate. Be first to submit a new camera and you get free updates for life.

I should have responded to the traffic part too. I have read the TomTom TMC-RDS aerial picks up signals in some places but no others. I personally use GPRS for TomTom Plus services version of speed cameras which I find accurate and quite cheap.
TomTom 720 - A review - Pugugly {P}
trip computer function on the Garmin is superb.

Agree my bike's 2610 has a proper realtime speedometer with numbers you can read complete with all kinds of travel data. That bit knocks the TT5 that we have into a cocked hat.
TomTom 720 - A review - rtj70
Interesting... what if you turn the map view off on the TomTom? Is that any better?
RAC sat nav - opinions? - Pat L
I know I should posted BEFORE I bought an RAC sat nav unit (model 200) to seek opinions but I was so impressed by the sales pitch on a TV shopping channel that I just took the plunge. Anyway, the unit is nicely made, easy to read etc but it seems inconsistent in route planning and instructions. I've only had it two days and used it my local area to find places that I know the way to, just to test it out. Occasionally it ignores junctions, tells you to turn L or R when there is no turning, says there is no GPS or that the street is not digitised when it was the day before!

Is this normal with sat nav units or have I bought a duff one? Cost £110 inc postage.
Should I send it back?
RAC sat nav - opinions? - David Horn
The newer Sonys use gel mounts that don't leave any markings and will sucker to the dash.
RAC sat nav - opinions? - Pugugly {P}
I have to say the gel mount that comes with the Garmin 2610 (for the bike) is the business in that respect.

The gel-mount is part of the package of this bit of kit and not to be used on the bike of course.
RAC sat nav - opinions? - Pat L
Please see my question above.
RAC sat nav - opinions? - Collos25
They have been selling the RAC branded sat navs very cheap in my area that is perhaps why,I have a Sony and have never known it falter anywhere in Europe I would send it back.
RAC sat nav - opinions? - wemyss
David Horn...have done all my review searching and like yourself have come out with Sony as my choice and the model NV-73T as you now have.
Incidentally I think it was on Sony's own site I read that anyone with the V53 having time setting problems were having them replaced free of charge with the 73T, so you had a good deal there.
The best price I have found for the 73T so far is £169.99 in an actual Sony shop.
Your price for the V53 was very good. Could I ask where you bought it from.

RAC sat nav - opinions? - David Horn
Wemyss - I actually bought a U53 first of all only to be plagued with the time problem. I phoned Sony and they couriered out a U73, so I'm not complaining! I paid £130 for the U53 in Halfords on Boxing day.
TomTom RDS-TMC traffic receiver - Avant
Has anyone any experience of this? I googled it and saw plenty of comments that it was rubbish, but all dated from the first half of last year or earlier, and TomTom have brought our a new version following all the complaints.

Anyone know if the new version is better?
TomTom RDS-TMC traffic receiver - wemyss
Good review here.
And one only here at Amazon.

TomTom RDS-TMC traffic receiver - Avant
"Good review here."

I can only find a reference to the Sony version. Mine's a TomTom.
TomTom RDS-TMC traffic receiver - Altea Ego
Anyone know if the new version is better?


According to the Forums on Pocket GPS world, its better but still rubbish. However some of them are now finding ways to make it work well by splitting it into the car aerial.
TomTom RDS-TMC traffic receiver - drbe
When Which? tested SatNavs they found that the order of preference was:-

1st TomTom Go 520 with 73%
2nd Garmin Nuvi 660FM 72%
3rd Garmin Nuvi 610T Regional 71%
TomTom RDS-TMC traffic receiver - Avant
"It's better but still rubbish"

Many thanks for that, AE. TomTom seem to be selling work-in-progress and expecting the customers to do the field testing for them. Reminiscent of the bad old days of British Leyland....

There was a lot of talk on that forum about suckers - very appropriate I think. I'll stick with my One XL (which works fine) and my little old Trafficmaster Freeway (ditto, but if it gives up you can't replace it).

Edited by Avant on 23/01/2008 at 00:45

TomTom RDS-TMC traffic receiver - rtj70
TomTom are not totally to blame for this. Partly yes as there's been a redesign to the TMC antenna.

In the UK the signal seems weak (apparently) so the antenna not so good.

But I use TomTom traffic via GPRS abd that works very well for me so far. You pay TomTom (not too much) and then a little network traffic over GPRS. £10 on PAYG goes a long way :-)

Going to Portmeirion on Monday it was windy.... when it got windy the TomTom displayed a warning triangle for wind! Coming back today it did the same for M56 onwards. And it was right.
TomTom RDS-TMC traffic receiver - Altea Ego
Yes coverage is patchy. Other Sat navs seem to work ok more often tho with the patchy coverage.
TomTom RDS-TMC traffic receiver - rtj70
On the way to (and then from) Portmeirion I saw a new symbol/warning on the TomTom. A wind sock in the usual triangle for a road sign on the display.... and it was windy.....

To Portmeirion was Monday and back was today. Where TT said it was windy was different. At first I thought it might have been flagged as a "windy" road.
Points of interest? - franco
Is it common with all brands of sat nav for the lists of filling stations to be way out of date? I just bought a Garmin C510 and have only switched it on at home so far. It lists at least 3 local petrol stations that don't exist anymore. One is derelict and at least one other has houses built on it. These closed down about 3 to 5 years ago.

I'm also not impressed by the very short suction mount. The problem is I have a MK2 Golf with a dashboard that tilts upwards. The unit will have to sit in between the windscreen and the dashboard and will stick out like a sore thumb to any thieves.
Points of interest? - oilrag
I have the Garmin `sandbag` attachment that just sits on the dash and avoids needing suction cups, they are on sale at Halfords.

That goes under the seat and the Nav (small 250) in my pocket at a stop. I became tired of `unsuckering` and wiping the sucker mark away.

Points of interest? - Altea Ego
Is it common with all brands of sat nav for the lists of filling stations
to be way out of date?

Yes nearly all of them are much use as a chocolate fireguard. Dump them. has the best list of POI's for miles, including accurate petrol places
Points of interest? - franco
I suppose the suction cups can only stick to glass in any case - I was thinking of trying it on the leather part of the dashboard.

The Garmin manual also mentioned third party sites for POIs so I'll give that a go. Cheers for that.
Points of interest? - wemyss
No if you go to the Sony website they say there's will fix to the dashboard.
Help with choosing satNav - Theunisse
I'm starting a job very shortly that will involve visiting many addresses in areas of the country that I am not familiar with.
I am looking for a satNav that is user friendly and will enable me to get directions based on post codes.
Do satNavs enable you to enter a list of post codes and the device work out the most efficient route to cover them all?
Any recommendations on particular models?


Edited by Pugugly {P} on 23/01/2008 at 20:08

Help with choosing satNav - franco
In the reviews I've read I haven't heard of that function. I have heard of "via points" so you can choose to go from A to D via points B and C, but that would seem to invlove working out the most efficient route yourself. Also, you may want to check out how many via points the unit you look at can handle. Some can only take one via point while some take many.

Help with choosing satNav - colinh
The Garmin 2610 has (had) an optimisation function for finding the most efficient routing. That particular model is now discontinued, but the 2xxx series is still sold, so it may be worth checking out the Garmin website to see if the later models still have that function. Refurbished 2610s may still be available on eBay - they also come with the beanbag mount which solves a lot of problems mentioned above.
Help with choosing satNav - drbe
>> Do satNavs enable you to enter a list of post codes and the device work
out the most efficient route to cover them all?

I think that question has been asked before on this forum.

SFAIK there is no satnav which will provide that facility. Think how useful it would be!
Queries about my new sat nav? - franco
I used the Garmin C510 for the first time the other night and while I am impressed with the technology overall it made me realise that the system has its limitations. In particular finding an A road closed and not being able to hit the reroute button before it had recalculated a route. I then found it wanted to route me back to the closed road.

Anyway, that incident caused me to plug in the Traffic Management Control receiver in the hope that it might function, but it didn't. I thought modern windcreens were the problem, but even in my old car I couldn't get a good enough signal to verify I was entitled to the service - never mind traffic information.

Has anyone ever got one of these TMC units to work. How do the AA patrols hook them up so that they work?

Also, does anyone know if the Garmin C510 knows to plan routes around the Congestion Charging zone the same way the Tom Tom does. It has an "avoid toll roads" function, but I'm not sure if this includes the CC Zone.
Queries about my new sat nav? - Dipstick
I had (still have somewhere) a Garmin 510D I used in my last non-satnav car and the traffic function was hopeless until I bought a magnetic base aerial from Mr Maplin for a tenner or so and wired that into it.

Admittedly it was a bit messy having the aerial on the boot all the time when driving ( I just shut the boot on the wire so no drilling the bodywork or anything) but from that moment on the TMC worked 100% for me. When not in use I just put the aerial into the boot.

An alternative is to connect the unit to your existing car aerial but that meant complicated removal of head units and stuff that was more than I was prepared to do, from past experience.

Queries about my new sat nav? - franco
It's messy enough sitting on the windscreen with all the wires coming up from the cigarette lighter plug, but would be worth it if it worked. I think I'll look for a more expensive unit with TMC and then try the aerial from Maplin. I would definitely like a reroute button that you can hit without having to go back to the menu. Also, I now realise how good text to speech would be. Everything is just a blur driving on carriageways around London. It would be good to hear the road names and numbers called out.
Queries about my new sat nav? - Dipstick
There's a hack for the Garmin I used that made it do text to speech and it worked really well. Might work on yours too. There's lots of disclaimers obviously but I had no problems at all, for what that's worth. Took about ten minutes to do being very careful.

It's at
Queries about my new sat nav? - franco
Hi Dipstick, do you have the C510 as well and have you had experience with other sat navs like the TomTom?? I'd be interested in your opinions on the Garmin and how it compares.

I had seen that website before I bought the unit. I thought it a bit risky in case the unit stopped working and I didn't know how to fix it.
Queries about my new sat nav? - Dipstick
Yes, I had the C510D (don't now need it as current car has built in satnav, although that does miss out on some feautures I'd like back!). Also had a TomTom in the household, and sometimes ran both at the same time for the same journey. Garmin lady would say "turn left", Tomtom chap would say "turn right", bloke on the radio would cut in and tell me about traffic on a road we weren't using, Mrs D would be on about hats again and I'd go straight on. Oh the fun we had.

TomTom is certainly easier to use, more features, especially when avoiding parts of the route, but I really liked the Garmin, especially with the traffic feature and text to speech all working. I also had a Sony unit, which was very pretty graphically and feature packed, but quite expensive at the time and had some serious omissions.

If I were buying now I'd be looking at Tomtom I think, but their support wasn't very brilliant in my experience, and Garmin's was top notch, again in my experience. By that I mean the speed of response rather than the quality of reply - Garmin replied to an email within 8 hours, with a named individual to chase if needs be. TomTom took two weeks to send me a piece of boilerplate text anonymously, but both gave me the right answers.

The physical mounts at the time (they may have changed) come out in Tomtom's favour, sort of. The TT mount was much easier to use on a daily basis, and stuck more readily than the fiddly Garmin one - but on the other hand the TT one broke and we had to buy a replacement.

Garmins also have that fantabulous new software add on available that tells you interesting things about historical sites etc, not (yet) on TomTom, which is very appealing to me - I'd already hacked up my own, along with my own voice files, but this will be much better.

However, the Garmins do come with a separate "route making" app for your pc, and some of their models allow you to make a route on your PC using that and copy it down to the satnav, so your postcode optimisation wish might be catered for that way. You can't copy PC routes to the 510 satnavs though, you need to go up a model or two.

Only you can decide about your attitude to risk of doing the text to speech conversion. It will be more complex now than when I did it (a year or more ago now), as the firmware in Garmins these days would also have to be downgraded first. But it's worth it, so much so that I would specify it as a must have on any new satnav I was buying.

Edited by Dipstick on 25/01/2008 at 08:35

Queries about my new sat nav? - franco
Thanks for that Dipstick. I have only used the Garmin once so far, but found that the TMC unit just did not work. Also, I found a road closed coming off a roundabout and was unable to hit the reroute button because you have to press the menu button first and it would have took my attention off the road for too long. It then recalculated a route back to the roundabout and the closed road. I think I will end up returning this for a refund and then looking at other units including the Tomtom.

I did read about a text to speech hack for the Tomtom as well, but another reason I decided against the hack on the C510 was the firmware downgrade that you mentioned. I found the physical mount for the C510 to be very good. It's a ball that slots into a socket on the back of the unit, and it sticks to the windscreen just fine.

One other thing that I found strange is that the Garmin gave me bad directions coming off a roundabout when it failed to inform me to take a slip road. However, when it rerouted me back to the roundabout the instructions were crystal clear. On another roundabout I believe it told me to take the 4th exit when it actually meant the 3rd.

I would like to have the facility to avoid certain roads (like Hanger Lane roundabout which I hate) so that will be a requisite. I would like to be able to search by street name as well as postcode, simulate a journey before leaving (I'm not even sure if the C510 can do that), have text to speech, and a reroute button on the map as opposed to one that you have to go to the menu to find.

Queries about my new sat nav? - Dipstick
Do what I did. Ditch the satnav AND the car and buy a car with one built in.

Least cost effective and most self indulgent purchase ever. You know you want to.
Novigo sat nav - movilogo
Has anyone tried Novigo sat nav?
It's available from Ebuyers for just £60 (probably the cheapest sat nav in UK market)

The reviews on Ebuyers are quite encouraging.

Edited by Dynamic Dave on 25/01/2008 at 19:08

Novigo sat nav - SteVee
Do you mean Novogo ?
I couldn't figure out the ebuyers site so I couldn't see what model they were offering.
I've got the S700 model - which I bought because it can record your track, useful when I go for a m/cycle rideout and don't have a clue where I've gone :-)
It works OK - easy to use and reasonably accurate - it's got a reasonably powerful processor and plenty of memory. Full European mapping with cross border routing also.
Difficult - but not impossible - to get updates
You can download the manuals and check out details first.

I would have bought something more mainstream if I could've got the tracking option.
Widescreen Sony sat nav - £99 at Halfords - David Horn
Halfords are running a "10% off everything online" offer at the moment, but it also applies to Collect at Store as well. The Sony U53 widescreen sat nav (which is excellent) is already on offer so this reduces it to just £99.

This applies to everything online, but is for this weekend only. Thought you'd like to know.
Widescreen Sony sat nav - £99 at Halfords - franco
Dipstick, I could get a better car, but don't see the point. Part of me wants to get a newer car, but definitely not new. It's strange driving round with a sat nav that is worth nearly half as much as the car.

Movilogo, those reviews didn't look too encouraging to me. A few of them said it was not accurate.

David, thanks for that. I'll check that out.
Widescreen Sony sat nav - £99 at Halfords - rtj70
But the other week a TomTom 720 was £180 at Halfords. Okay more than the Sony but now a lot more.

Edited by rtj70 on 25/01/2008 at 22:46

Widescreen Sony sat nav - £99 at Halfords - wemyss
David Horn or anyone else!..Have you tried updating your U73T safety camera download from the Sony site ?.
I have managed to register the appliance after finding the code number in the satnav.
This then eventually gives a number which enables access to the speed camera database download. It recommends to do this before enabling it in the satnav.
Have downloaded the CD on to my XP which is ActiveSync which I note is a Microsoft programme.
So far so good but there I run into a blind alley.
When the Satnav is connected to the computer and ActiveSync is enabled it asks you to synchronise your satnav with the PC. It opens a list of programs which includes Outlook, Excel and so on. I don?t know which one to use but in the Sony site FAQ it warns against transferring data between the satnav and windows explorer saying it could damage the unit.
There is no mention anywhere of whereabouts on the PC you should download to.
I?m presuming that it has to go on to the PC and then be transferred to the satnav ?.
Before I proceed would be grateful for any advice.

Widescreen Sony sat nav - £99 at Halfords - David Horn
The blame here goes firmly on Microsoft - ActiveStink is an appalling bit of software, and is actually designed to sync PIM data between your PC and a Windows Mobile device. The trouble is, the Sony runs on Windows CE too, so you're forced into using Activesync so the PC can talk to it.

Ignore all the bits that pop up asking you to sync the device - they're irrelevant. To get the speed cameras installed, try this:

Once you've got your speed cameras registered on the Sony website, download them to your PC. Then connect the sat nav to your computer and close any "Sync" pop-ups that appear. The screen on the Sony should say "Connecting".

At this point, run the file you downloaded from Sony's website. It'll take about 5 seconds to copy across. If it doesn't work, it'll chuck up an error message.

Now you need to go to General Settings and scroll down to "Activate Advanced Warnings". Scroll down to "United Kingdom" and select it, then tap the green arrow at the bottom right of the screen. It'll ask you to enter in the code from Sony's website.

Hopefully, after that, it'll all be working. However, the speed camera alerts aren't fantastic anyway, all she says is "Beware, watch your speed" when you approach one. You do get an icon on the map though.
Widescreen Sony sat nav - £99 at Halfords - wemyss
Thanks for that David. I'm wavering a little bit about doing this or not at the moment.
Does the download actually go into the Activesync or as an application on the desktop.
I have experimented with connecting the satnav to PC when Activesync is running.
It shows connecting with a bar running across the screen forever so I suppose thats because there is nothing to connect to. I went to the Activesync website and its as you say. No mention of satnavs and only talks about mobile phones.
Sony really make hard work of it on their site. It rejects passwords and user ID and when you ask for a reminder which I don't need as I have them on Norton password manager which does it automatically its the same one as i'm using. Couple of attempts later with the same password and it lets you in. And then all the business of finding your device ID and giving you a thirteen number password to access the download.
And then no instructions whatsoever how to download and to where it should go is awful. Presume you have seen the warning about not to use windows explorer
However the device works well and the only fault I have found is that the buttons are often ignored.
I suppose the device already has speed camera alerts preloaded when enabled as you described without adding to them? Did you enable the safety cameras on your satnav before you downloaded them or after?.
I'm considering just enabling it on the satnav and seeing what I get.
Sorry for all the questions.

Widescreen Sony sat nav - £99 at Halfords - David Horn
Hi wemyss,

Nothing goes into Activesync, it's there solely as a tool to allow your computer to talk to the sat nav. The program you download from Sony runs by itself - you simply doubleclick on the file to start it going.
RDS-TMC problems with TomTom 720 - Armitage Shanks {p}
I bought a TT720, subscribed to the traffic service and bought a Bluetooth Vodaphone to use the service. Bought an incompatible phone by mistake (Bother!) Bought a compatible one but it won't work. V and TT are each telling me it is other's fault. Have now bought a RDS-TMC receiver with a lifetime sub to the traffic service. In my house, where I obviously don't want to use it, the device locks onto a signal and holds it within about 10 seconds. In my car, one with a metallised anti heat windscreen the TT pulls in a great signal but the RDS device won't. I have tried moving things so the aerial wire, attached by small suckers, in on the driver's window but the signal pick up is dire. About 90% looking for a station, 5% updating info and 5% actually being useful. Any helpful ideas please? My first thought was getting an extension lead to enable me to move the aerial to a better place or shall I have to try an external one, if such a thing exists?
RDS-TMC problems with TomTom 720 - rtj70
From what I have read even the modified RDS-TMC receiver can be hit and miss in the UK. It depends where you live although more frequencies will carry the traffic info soon. But I find the GPRS version really reliable.

With the windscreen type you have it might never work without modding it to hook into an external aerial.

I have used TT Traffic with Voadafone PAYG GPRS and Orange. The former worked fine straight away but I had to manually modify the dial-up string for the former.

What phone and phone service provider is it? Might be able to help.
RDS-TMC problems with TomTom 720 - Armitage Shanks {p}
Many thanks - it is a Motorola RAZR but then not sure of further designation, and on Vodaphone. A supplier of accesories has said there is no external aerial available but I shall ask other people. As I said, I have tried moving the aerial to a side window but it was not noticeably better.
RDS-TMC problems with TomTom 720 - rtj70
AS it's not a purchasable external aerial... it's cut/hack the one you have to splice somehow into the car aerial! It obviously does not work for you now.

For Vodafone PAYG I had to change the dialup details for the connection to work. Off the top of my head I cannot remember how much of the dialup text I deleted to configure manuallt. Orange PAYG just worked - found an old SIM with £10 credit :-)

Curious where in the country you are AS? Travelling this week. Could I help?

Edited by rtj70 on 29/01/2008 at 22:59

RDS-TMC problems with TomTom 720 - Armitage Shanks {p}
rtj70. Thanks yet again! The telephone, allegedly compatible with GRPS service, is a Motorazr V3. I am in East Midlands, just off the A1 between Grantham and Stamford. Please be kind enough to contact me thru e mail in my profile. What sort of electrical man might be able to help with an aerial extension, in your opinion? A TV repair place perhaps?
RDS-TMC problems with TomTom 720 - Dipstick
Job entails:

Purchase external aerial, with magnetic base. Purchase appropriate socket to match whatever is on the thing at the same time, all from Maplin or similar. I used


Cut Tom Tom aerial right at end to expose actual wire.

Solder wire to purchased socket. Six second job.

Mount aerial somewhere outside car and route cables through any holes in bodywork you can find. Plug and socket arrangement allows disconnection of TomTom unit when not in car, mag mount aerial allows easy removal if desired when parked etc.

Done. Ugly, little bit messy running cables, but sensibly routed and mounted will give you (almost certain) 100% RDS coverage on your radio based traffic unit for about £20.

RDS-TMC problems with TomTom 720 - Armitage Shanks {p}
Dipstick, many thanks to you too! I shall investigate all this. When you say "cut the TomTom aerial right at the end" I am guessing that you mean where the wire goes into the plug which goes into the Tom Tom unit or do you mean as near to the little aerial box as possible? Sorry to be dim and dull - it is my nature!
RDS-TMC problems with TomTom 720 - Dipstick
I mean at the far end, as far away from the unit as possible, so you are stripping just the end cap off. If all goes horribly wrong (ie it doesn't work for whatever reason) you can always unsolder it and you are just one centimetre of wire down on the deal!

I did the same job on my old Sony unit and the endcap just pulled off, so it was replaceable if ever needed and nobody would have been the wiser.

Also, Maplin will replace goods (in as new condition, so be a bit careful) for 14 days for whatever reason, so in the event of failure you could return the magmount aerial. It's therefore reasonably risk free.

RDS-TMC problems with TomTom 720 - Altea Ego
Be very carefull before hacking the YMC aerial lead around, its a complicated multiplug in the bottom of the 720.

AS logon to the web site, and read the forum about the TT TMC aerial and the way to do the splitting mods. All the detail is there.

TomTom ONE v3 Europe - Conditional Identity
I'm going to buy a SatNav to take me from Geneva into the French Alps in a couple of weeks.
I don't want to spend too much as I will only need it occasionally in the UK over the next couple of years.
I was thinking of getting this TomTom ONE v3 Europe (£135 inc p&P) however I'm slightly perplexed why the ONE hasn't really been mentioned in these recent threads. Any strong opinions out there?
I might get it in Halfords for the peace of mind (£160) or is this not necessary?

TomTom ONE v3 Europe - rtj70
The latest TomTom One Europe v3 will be fine if you're happy with a basic unit. But unlike the XL (apart from widescreen) you lose out on:

- Extra memory expansion for new maps via an SD Card slot
- Cannot use TomTom Plus Services via GPRS like traffic although traffic via the poor RDC-TMC antenaa still possible,

There's not a lot between XL and One in price.... And I got the TomTom 720 via Halfords for only a little more which gives even more like:

- Handsfree Bluetooth phone
- Europe maps
- Play MP£ etc via radio
- etc

A bargain and better than I thought. Now price a lot more than £180.
Garmin map-updates - billy25
Morning Folks!
An Ex-G/F has just returnened a Garmin street-pilot i3 that i lent her before we split, this unit is now asking for a map-update as the pre-loaded map is over 12 months old. I have been on the Garmin map-updates page and entered in the units serial no, to automatically search for up-dates, but the site insists that no updates are available. However, in the FAQ section, there is mention of "City-nav nt v9 updates problems and how to correct them, so i assume there IS a v9 update (currently running v8).
So question is,
has anybody out there got this model and managed to update it to a current map, if so, what is the version no. and where do i find the update.



It also says that the updates need to be purchased, anyone know how much?

Edited by Webmaster on 30/01/2008 at 01:46

Garmin map-updates - colinh
Version 9 update was released last March. Probably worth waiting for v10 (although I think Garmin are dropping version numbers and it will be known as CN EU 2008).

price last year was $75 (USD) plus vat. They've now changed their policy regarding updates - previously you could unlock maps on two GPSs - now only one unit - whether update price will reduce - unlikely!

If you go to this page:

there is a mapviewer on the RH side where can check if there are any worthwhile revisions
Garmin map-updates - billy25
Thankyou, Colinh,
Just the info i needed, i shall check it out!


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