I'm looking to buy my first diesel as a compromise of power v economy.
My compromise is, i've been driving a 1.6 petrol toyota corolla for a while now and i want something quicker. Toyotas are cheap for me, i can buy them at v near cost with cheap servicing and often labour free bills. So, new cars are very expensive but getting it so cheap i think i can justify it if i keep it a while 4/5years. Therefore i have been test driving the toyota auris T180 - fabulous diesel engine, crazy amounts of power, very quick, very quiet/smooth and good economy of 44mpg. Problem is i drive roughly 12-15k miles a year so not really diesel justifcation territory but would give me big fuel bills on say a golf GTI.
Diesel or petrol... want more power / more thrill but fuel bills... :(
An older type-r / golf GTI or even a Focus ST are all so very appealing but could live with the fuel bill?? I could easily afford it but i just dont want to buy a 6 second car because i'd probably end up loosing my license and the fuel would probably end up bother me, even this t180 worries me because it is so quick.
So given my miles, cheap cost of ownership etc would you got for a fast diesel for my mid commutes or get a real hot hatch and stump up the fuel bill.
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There are many of us on this forum who agree that finance isn't the only reason for buying a diesel. If you like the Auris 180 - which sounds like a good recipe for performance with a big powerful engine in a smallish car - go for it. It'll give you plenty of torquey acceleration in the lower rev ranges where you need it most in everyday driving, and it'll also give you a much bigger range between fuel stops.
If you don't want anything quite as quick there is an Auris 2.0 D with I think 120 bhp, and the VW Golf 2.0 TDI comes with a choice of 140 and 170 bhp engines: personally if I needed a car that size I'd be very tempted by the Auris 180.
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I should have added - you might like to go for a test drive in a Prius. There is a rather silly thread going at the moment where some people are insisting that you have to be green and smug to run a Prius - in fact it's a sensible option if much of your driving is in town. Economy is better than an equivalent petrol on motorways, though not as good as a diesel.
Performance is surprisingly brisk: I had a good run in one back-to-back with a Verso 2.2 D 140 bhp - not much in it. But the Auris 180 would be quicker.
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At that mileage, you'll struggle to justify a diesel on cost grounds.
That said, the driving experience of a diesel and petrol of equivalent power output, is like comparing chalk and cheese. The diesel will provide huge shove at low to medium RPM, and then "die" suddenly at somewhere around the 4,500 RPM mark. A petrol feels "flatter" at low to medium revs, but the power will build all the way around to 6-7000 RPM. You need to drive some different petrols and diesels to see which suits you. What I will say is most people who like one type of engine find the other to be hugely frustrating and difficult to live with. They really are that different. Diesels excel at going quickly with next to no effort and returning daft economy figures when driven sensibly, whereas petrols excel at being responsive and generally rewarding to drive hard. That's a generalisation, but it's about right.
Don't underestimate a modern performance diesel in terms of avoiding speeding tickets! In many ways it's easier to get caught out because the torque and high gearing allow big speeds with stupidly little gear swapping and RPM. In many modern 6 speed diesels you can go quickly enough to catch The Law's attention on the motorway without exceeding 2,000 RPM, and still have enough grunt to lift the nose if you squeeze the throttle.
Finally, modern diesels can go very expensively wrong (he says, about to buy a dCi Renault). The days of a diesel engine being guaranteed to rattle gamely on to starship mileages with basic maintenance only seem to be fast disappearing. The fuel system on a modern diesel engine ihas undergone a revolution in the last decade or so, and is now a masterpiece of precision engineering which sadly sometimes falls foul of manufacturers penny pinching on components. No mainstream manufacturer seems totally immune to this, even the Japanese, and it doesn't take much to go wrong on a diesel nowadays for you to be staring at a four figure bill. Petrol injection technology on the other hand has seen a gentle evolution, with most components being proven and reliable.
Drive both and see what you think. It really comes down to personal preferences at the end of the day. I find diesel torque addictive and wouldn't have anything else in a family car / commuter, but if my car choice included hot hatches and didn't include 25k a year mileages, I might think again.
Cheers
DP
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Thanks for the great advise
I too have woken up to the power of a diesel - the t180 is great fun and delivers power without feeling guilty for redlining like a boy racer. The 2.0d was a very decent car and would suit the average owner great yet i can see why it falls down against the 1.6, the petrol is suprisingly good and cheaper and i would probably buy that if i wanted a decent car that got me from a to b.
However i'm really looking for something faster with a touch of thrill. The sports hot hatches are great, some of them superb but not really an everyday car with their stiff suspension, noisy engines and exhausts along with big fuel bills. I think i can probably put up with the fact that the diesel engine isn't quite suited to my annual millage but it gives in other areas i couldn't gain with a petrol, superb performance, quiet refinement and good economy so that extra 3p per ltr isn't going to hurt. A hot hatch refill would probably be much more.
If i couldn't buy and run toyotas so cheaply i would probably be looking at getting an audi tdi or a golf tdi. The repair cost of a diesel engine does worry me though.
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I don't think you need worry about whether or not you can justify the purchase cost of a diesel - especially with your access to cheap Toyotas! If you like the Auris and want a fast one, the T180 is the only choice, so you can't quantify the extra you're paying over a petrol equivalent. An annual mileage of 15,000 must include a lot of long, steady-speed journeys made because you have to, not because you want to, and the relaxed grunt of a good turbo-diesel makes these much more bearable.
I don't get the 'runs out of puff at 4500 rpm' objection. The gearing allows for this, and given that a powerful turbo-diesel will pull from about 15 mph in third and, by the time it reaches the red line will be travelling at close to 80, how much more puff do you need? Just one gearchange will take you into three figures. It may sound different from a petrol engine driven hard but it won't retard your progress. It sounds from your comment that 'the t180 is great fun and delivers power without feeling guilty for redlining like a boy racer' that this style of delivery suits you as well as I've found it suits me.
My feeling - as we've been chewing over in the Go back to petrol thread is that I wouldn't buy a new car with a petrol engine, mainly because the combined costs of new-car depreciation and petrol-engine fuel consumption would be too high to contemplate. On the other hand, some otherwise appealing cars do not have an appealing diesel engine, but might make a sound used buy in petrol form, provided they could be bought cheaply enough to offset the extra fuel cost. I think the thought process has to be: choose the car you want, then select the engine option that suits it, and you, best. Good luck!
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Thanks WillDeBeest, very reassuring post :)
I know i'm set to loose a lot by buying a new car but i'm hoping the trade price i will pay along with cheap running costs will make up for that. Providing i keep for 5 years and dont encouter any major problems it should be just as cheap to run as a 2yr old car with 30k on the clock.
I have around 1.5k of disposable income each month so in 5 years i should be in a comfortable position to think my car has served me well. It cost 17k and its worth 7k private now but i've got 10k in the bank i'll go and buy another. I'm happy with that concept - i got to own a brand new, untouched car and i dont do anything else with my money.
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