|
S40 a bit big? - well compared to a Forester and Outback it was certainly smaller inside.
|
|
|
|
We went from the north of Scotland to Surrey in a day (600 miles or so) the summer before last in SWMBO's C3 1.4 HDI Exclusive. It was much more relaxing than you might think. It gets a lot of bad press, but has decent mway performance, nicely kitted out, and pretty comfy. But I imagine the new Clio would be very good at this sort of thing.
|
We have Merc C270 Estate and a Jazz, but I only really use the Merc for long motorway journeys.
For 95% of the time I could certainly live with just having the Jazz, although for long journeys a little more power (as is available on Jazz/Fit in other parts of the world) would be useful. I'd also like it to things like cruise control, integrated phone etc. And more supportive seats. However I guess all those things (although they would cost Honda close to zero) would bump the already high price up too much.
|
|
|
Clarkson did a column on this a few weeks back, basically bemoaning the lack of an equivalent of the old Renault 5 Monaco. Admittedly, that was a lovely car for its day (despite being metallic brown with brown leather) but he seems not to have noticed the Initiale.
But yeah, I can't think of a more refined small car than a Clio Initiale, even if it would be the thick end of £15k once specced-up completely (even after discount). Sure, it's a specialist market but there's nothing else to touch it for what it does.
|
The french certainly offer up some options.
Citroen C3 Exclusive HDi, Fiat Punto Multijet 120 Eleganza, Ford Fiesta 1.6 TDCi Ghia, Renault Clio 1.5 dCi 106 Initiale, Skoda Fabia vRS TDi, Toyota Yaris1.4 D-4D 90 T Spirit and VW Polo TDi 80 SE.
That would be my shortlist.
I think id most likely be torn between the Fiat ( love the looks ), Ford ( discounts easier id think ) and the Toyota ( reliability/customer service ).
|
I understand the reason for the thread but imo if you drive distance you cant beat size and power.
Could never cope with taking family out for day or weeks holidayetc in a yaris !
|
|
I'd replace it with a Panther Rio. Built for luxury car owners during the 70s oil crisis.
|
|
|
I understand the reason for the thread but imo if you drive distance you cant beat size and power.
Why? Over long disatnces all cars can go at the national limit - and beyond - regardless of power/size.
There will always be a need to transport 4 people plus gear, so maybe the big car won't become extinct. It'll just be slow, powered by a small, economical engine. Days of the big Lexus/Audi/Merc/BM/Jag/etc numbered?
|
so you are happy to pull up a big hill in a laden car with a small engine?
I would prefer to have the power to to be able to drive up the hill at the speed limit and have power in reserve for emergency needs. It is accpetable in my mind (tho I kow not legal) to be able to accelerate out of danger.
You want a small engined, and/or small car I have no problem. But personallly it is not for me or imo for a lot of people.
If fuel economy is the reason for the smaler cars it would be better for all to get a national public transport system in place and take more cars off the road. That would be the better choice imo.
|
so you are happy to pull up a big hill in a laden car with a small engine?
No, but I might have to put up with it in my lifetime.
I would prefer to have the power to to be able to drive up the hill at the speed limit and have power in reserve for emergency needs. It is accpetable in my mind (tho I kow not legal) to be able to accelerate out of danger. You want a small engined, and/or small car I have no problem. But personallly it is not for me or imo for a lot of people.
Looks like folk are going to have to make some sacrifices.
If fuel economy is the reason for the smaler cars it would be better for all to get a national public transport system in place and take more cars off the road. That would be the better choice imo.
Agree.
|
|
|
|
|
The original OP question is what lead me to owning an A2 for two years. All the goodies and interior quality of larger Audis in supermini format and it was very comfortable on long journeys.
|
|
|
There will always be a need to transport 4 people plus gear, so maybe the big car won't become extinct. It'll just
>>
Plus the peculiarity in the UK market of wanting small hatchbacks and rejecting saloons.
e.g.
I have never seen a Corolla saloon (available in the UK ) and the Yaris mentioned as a possibility is not available here with the larger boot.
Perhaps things will change.
|
|
|
|
|
|
But yeah, I can't think of a more refined small car than a Clio Initiale, even if it would be the thick end of £15k once specced-up completely (even after discount).
We had a 98 Clio 1.6RXE - it certainly had a 'big car' feel about it. However the wind noise at speed, I presume because of the way the doors wrap over the roof, which is still how they do it today, would make the car unbearable on a long journey.
|
I have driven Yaris diesel on motorways with 4 adults. No problems doing legal 70mph up hills in 5th.
Perfectly quiet and nearly 70mpg. Aircon perfectly adequate...
Of course if you have enough luggage for 3 weeks holiday it will not do but for weekends or days out it is perfectly adequate.
With 2 adults it's all you need, luggage and all...
And how many cars do you see on motorways with 4 adults..? If it's once a year better to hire a bigger car imo..
But horses for courses and if you believe small cars are no good on motorways you have driven the wrong ones or not driven one designed in the last 10 years.
madf
|
Slight correction.
I probably drive more vehicles of all sizes and shapes including lorries occasionally than the average person on here, and cover lots of miles in said vehicles. i probably drive more vehicles in a week than most on here drive in a year, so feel able to compare.
i am not saying what you should be driving, but for me for distance or capacity, I cannot beat the comfort, power and safety of a bigger car. In town I would always use a small car.
|
Occasional long distance journeys are one thing, regular (ie. daily) motorway commuting is another matter.
I had an old Saab 9000 that died of HGF so I ended up driving a Corsa 1.2 16v ("energy" spec or something) hire car for two weeks. On the motorway the £200 Saab felt like an S class Merc compared with the new Corsa. Longer wheelbase, wider track, better seats, better soundproofing, more power, makes for relaxing cruising. The Corsa was raucous and the short wheelbase made for a fidgety ride and uncomfortable pitching over undulations. I would get home in the Corsa and feel like I had driven twice as far as I had.
I do a minimum of 50 miles per day (not a lot compared with many people), 80% on motorways, and was very happy to give it back when I got my new car.
No doubt there are myriad small cars with much better ride than a Corsa, but my next car will either be Astra or Vectra sized.
;o)
|
There were various firms that used to make customised Mini-Coopers for pop stars and so on: wooden dash, leather, lots of soundproofing, special steering wheel and sound system, etc. Even so the things would only have been usable for short journeys, without the fatigue induced by choppy Mini suspension on long journeys.
Refinement of engines and drivelines has improved a lot since then. But there seems no escape from a fidgety ride when cars are small, light and short.
|
Are we talking about "small" or "economical" ?
I have run two family sized diesels which were more economical than the superminis my wife had at the same time:
Vectra 2.0 Di - 55mpg plus against a Micra 1.0 doing 40ish MPG.
Honda Accord 2.2 CDTi doing 50mpg against an A2 1.4 doing high 30s (Very noisy on the motorway, suspension too hard in town).
Why should I need to choose a small car?
Based on the above shouldn't we ban small petrol engined cars as well as the big ones!
|
Are we talking about "small" or "economical" ? I have run two family sized diesels which were more economical than the superminis my wife had at the same time: Vectra 2.0 Di - 55mpg plus against a Micra 1.0 doing 40ish MPG.
This seems a bit unrealistic to me. On the combined cycle the Micra gets 47-48mpg, the Vectra gets 50mpg. On a motorway I would expect the Micra to get 55+mph, in stop-start traffic I would expect no less than 40mpg (just guessing) unless the traffic is really bad. 47-48mpg isn't far off 50mpg, and it's also petrol. Shall we have a look at the 'greenest' petrol Vectra? 38mpg combined!
Honda Accord 2.2 CDTi doing 50mpg against an A2 1.4 doing high 30s (Very noisy on the motorway, suspension too hard in town).
There must have been something very wrong with the A2! Again, the 1.4 gets 46-47mpg on the combined cycle. My car gets 46mpg (not a Micra or A2) and it can get 60mpg (just) on the motorway, and gets around 40mpg in rush hour city driving. Take a look at the Diesel A2, 64mpg combined, it'll probably do 70mpg+ on a motorway!
Why should I need to choose a small car?
To save the environment? What is wrong with small cars?
It is unfair to compare a Diesel engined car to a Petrol engined car.
Based on the above shouldn't we ban small petrol engined cars as well as the big ones!
lol
|
|
13K will get a Clio Dynamique S with a 2.0 petrol engine and six speed box. Only 3 door at the moment.
|
It may be called a 'supermini', but nothing will alter the facts:
1. sound insulation will be thinner
2. wheebase will be shorter
3. wheel track width will be narrower.
1 will make it more uncomfortable; 2 and 3 harder work to drive compared to a proper car.
|
I have read in an independant car handbook that if you do regular long trips you'll be better off with a car with the largest engine capacity in it's class as it'll be more fuel efficent in the long term, bearing in mind they're thinking about power to weight ratio?
--
Its not what you drive, its how you drive it! :-)
|
|
|
|
|
